Ingeus

[Bakatcha]

Well said Arantine! - Oh and btw - I am one of the old ones (60+). This is not a generation battle. It is a battle against the inequities and inequalities built into the system and encouraged and perpetuated by a government of public school "educated", over privileged, multi millionairre bigots without a mandate for their actions. These people keep telling us that "we're all in it together" but I don't see them at the JC or the pimp's office. Too busy shovelling public money at the likes of Enemma Bankbalance and eyeing up the lucrative directorships that will be coming their way when they eventually get kicked out.

[omskus]

Hmm had an early interview with them yesterday. They are really jobsworths with no plan B if you don't sign their forms etc.

 

Didn't sign DPA waivers and provided my signing booklet and referral letter as ID.

 

Stated that any funding they provide may be affected by not signing the DPA waivers (not my issue).

 

Absolutely hounded me for an email address as I can't sign onto their special system which has jobs no one else has without it. After ten minutes I set up a new hotmail one that I stated would only be used for the purposes of logging onto their system.

 

They refused to accept my as it wasn't what they were looking for - driving licence, birth certificate, etc.

 

They wanted to know if I had a bank account - I said yes my JSA gets paid into it. They wanted proof. I showed them a bank card to end the questioning.

 

I showed them my CV and declined to give them a copy. Apparently now my work advisor will be setting up a new one with me unless I give them a copy.

 

In the end they let me go while they work out what to do with me.

 

Any idea why they are after my ID? I take it what I provided as ID will be fine? Have I messed up by providing an email address expressly for the purposes of logging onto their systems? I take it if they force me to write another CV I can decline to let them keep it and would be within my rights in telling them that before they made me set it up?

[Masso]

Ingeus are a private company who exist to help people get into sustainable employment, or so they claim. Towards that end they’re supposed to cover the cost of their client’s travel and retraining – under the usually correct assumption that the overwhelming majority of people on welfare aren’t exactly flush with money.

 

Ingeus refused to cover the cost of Masso’s Personal License (only eventually grudgingly being prepared to go half way after Masso stood up to them) – purposefully ignoring his inability to stump up the cash himself – which is very much against their purpose and mission statement, and makes no economic sense for them in the long run as it would cost more for them to pay for future meetings with Masso, indefinite travel to those meetings, future applications and future retraining.

 

I’d say it was a great example of the jobsworth, short-term mentality, insincerity and general idiocy sadly dominant in the welfare-to-work sector rather than that all young people expect to be handed everything.

 

In fact, when it comes to the current younger generation: they have to pay the entire cost of their own further education (which you didn’t); they have longer than you to work until they can claim a State pension, and probably for less value than you will be able to; the shrunken labour market they’re entering into has become competitive to the point of lunacy and loaded against them; and all to pay for the public money spent on you or propping up failed businesses to stop you from dropping into utter ruin. So WHO exactly is expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate?

 

Someone call 999, hahaha

 

I nearly had an heart attack from laughing! Yes I did stand up to them as it was needed. They refused to pay my £30 prize for winning a competition until they confirmed the job with my new employer. I turned down £130 from Ingeus, and also the £100 back to work grant?

 

I’m not sure if I will get the £100 back to work grant, but I will wait and see. When dealing with Private companies like Ingeus, would they have paid the £130 once they received the job outcome? I didn’t want to take the risk to be honest!

 

If this job go’s pear shaped I’ll be in a horrible situation! Imagine doing a rapid-reclaim and having to be sent back to Ingeus. The sanction stamp would always be next to me! Lol. I’m sure Ingeus would make my life a living hell! So, I need to stick out this job whether I love it or not.

[LongHairedLily]

Brought this over from Bandits of the Wefare to Work Programme.... Gissajob posted before.

http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/welfare-to-work/2094-introduction-of-flexible-signing-while-participating-on-the-wp

 

Hi,

Just returned from signing on at JCP where I was informed of a new procedure for those consigned to the WP. Instead of signing and being “interviewed” at a specific 2 weekly time I have to complete and deliver a standard form /declaration. The form has to be delivered in person on a 2 weekly basis between 9.30 am and 3.30 pm.

As well as the usual declarations the form specifically asks:

 

Confimation of ongoing attendance with Work Provider

I last attended jobsearch activity on [date]

Please explain what happened at this appointment:

Employers contacted:

My next appointment is on [date]

Please provide feedback on your Work programme provider.

 

- going to need a bigger space for the last one!

Guess they’re trying to check up on the [edit]s as much as the jobseekers!

 

 

Edited April 5, 2012 by honeybee13
Removing potentially contentious words.

[Nystagmite]

I use those declarations for JSA too. But just have to sign and date them. And now, I have to start signing them in front of whoever takes the form from me? Anyone else heard of that?

[Raven1]

How about sending Ingeus - or their fellow travellers - a Section 10 notice ?

 

If you have not waived your rights under DPA 1998, or have withdrawn DPA consent surely it would apply.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/10

 

Something like:

 

'Unless you can provide evidence of my explicit consent to the processing of my data by ****** I now require you to confirm that you have deleted all my personal data from your systems and those of any other agency that you may have dealt with.

 

Failure to comply will result in a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner.'

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Just realised they have recently changed their name from Working Links to Ingeus and when you search for Working Links a few more references appear. Oddly enough there are a disproportionate number which refer to the office I visited yesterday.

 

In a nutshell I left in tears after the advisor spent 30 mins doing her level best to totally undermine and demoralise me. The slightest questioning of anything she said - and some of it was extremely bizarre - was turned back at me as 'my negativity'

 

Also when I set out my health restrictions she spat at me that I was 'inflexible'

 

Towards the end she just seemed to want to argue and I had to actually advise her that I was not prepared to argue with her.

 

I am an intelligent articulate middle aged woman with a proven work history, I strongly suspect this person took one look at my grey hair and decided I was an easy victim one who would afford her some amusement if she approached the appointment in that manner.

 

Unhappily for them what they did not realise is that yes, I do tend to blub when taken by surprise with some unexpected nastiness ( which is essentially what this was, I went in there expecting to be treated like an equal) and I'm not particularly proud of that, but once I calm down I come out fighting, not effing and blinding but in the adult way via the formal complaints process.

 

I have emailed her this morning advising that I was not happy about the way the meeting was conducted and citing a couple of specific examples of her inappropriate behaviour. Also stating that I wished to make it the subject of a formal complaint.

 

What ever happens they won't be making me cry again!

 

Just to confirm.... Working Links deservedly gained as bad a reputation as A4E through the New Deal and Flexible New Deal, with their inept staff (less qualified than clerks within Job Centre Plus) awarding themselves baloneous but ego boosting job titles of "Consultants". And a Waste Of Space they were.

 

However, Ingeus have no relationship with Working Links, but were formed through a Joint Venture between Ingeus UK (formerly Work Directions, est 2001) and Deloitte Consultancy. Working Links, conversely, was formed about 2000 by Ernst and Young.

Edited April 6, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Using the term Admin resulted in a spurious email address

[frank_begbie]

Don't these people realise that you just can't keep pushing people in this way.

 

Sooner or later they will crack under the pressure when they understand they have nothing left to lose.

 

I can see the old bullet proof glass cubicles coming back into use.

[means2anend]

How about sending Ingeus - or their fellow travellers - a Section 10 notice ?

 

If you have not waived your rights under DPA 1998, or have withdrawn DPA consent surely it would apply.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/10

 

Something like:

 

'Unless you can provide evidence of my explicit consent to the processing of my data by ****** I now require you to confirm that you have deleted all my personal data from your systems and those of any other agency that you may have dealt with.

 

Failure to comply will result in a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner.'

 

10 Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress.

 

(1)Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons—

(a)the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b)that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

 

(2)Subsection (1) does not apply—

(a)in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or

(b)in such other cases as may be prescribed by the [F1 Secretary of State] by order.

 

SCHEDULE 2

Conditions relevant for purposes of the first principle: processing of any personal data

 

1The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2The processing is necessary—

(a)for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

 

(b)for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

 

3The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than an obligation imposed by contract.

4The processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject.

 

It certainly appears from the above provisions that clear and express consent is required BEFORE any data may be processed about the data subject for specific purposes and that as in the first limb processing has ALREADY begun then the DATA SUBJECT can withdraw any IMPLIED consent.....and also from my struggles to find any provisions in my previous posts their does not appear to be any legal obligation(in 3) under which the Data Controller is subject...IN RELATION TO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EFFECT OF WORK ON ENTITLEMENT TO ESA and VOLUNTEERING

 

However the threshold for damage or distress must be SUBSTANTIAL

 

I have not researched the Welfare Reform act 2012 C5 as of yet ...although it has been passed the majority of it's provisions are not yet in force

 

 

PERSONAL DATA IS DEFINED AS THUS

 

1 Basic interpretative provisions.

 

(1)In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—

“data” means information which—

 

(a)is being processed by means of equipment operating automatically in response to instructions given for that purpose,

 

(b)is recorded with the intention that it should be processed by means of such equipment,

 

©is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system, F1. . .

 

(d)does not fall within paragraph (a), (b) or © but forms part of an accessible record as defined by section 68; [F2or

 

(e)is recorded information held by a public authority and does not fall within any of paragraphs (a) to (d);]

 

“personal data” means data which relate to a living individual who can be identified—

 

(a)from those data, or

 

(b)from those data and other information which is in the possession of, or is likely to come into the possession of, the data controller,

 

and includes any expression of opinion about the individual and any indication of the intentions of the data controller or any other person in respect of the individual;

Edited April 7, 2012 by means2anend

[nickk]

Hi

 

I managed to get two days of work with a temp agency. (woohoo!)

 

I am still looking for work, but am getting annoyed by the constant requests of my advisor for unnecessary appointments. I am actually super grateful to Ingues, they helped me reformat and rewrite my CV and got me help getting some smart clothing.

 

Now that I am active with some temp agencies (and looking for full time work) can't I use my time more productively? I would rather spend my week visiting prospective employers, recruitment agencies, than going through my application tracking sheet with my [ingeus] advisor.

 

In other words, I really don't want any further help from them. I am starting to find them annoying and they are hindering my job searches. Fine, I will see them once a week, but 3 times per week seems like overkill.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Hi

 

I managed to get two days of work with a temp agency. (woohoo!)

 

I am still looking for work, but am getting annoyed by the constant requests of my advisor for unnecessary appointments. I am actually super grateful to Ingues, they helped me reformat and rewrite my CV and got me help getting some smart clothing.

 

Now that I am active with some temp agencies (and looking for full time work) can't I use my time more productively? I would rather spend my week visiting prospective employers, recruitment agencies, than going through my application tracking sheet with my [ingeus] advisor.

 

In other words, I really don't want any further help from them. I am starting to find them annoying and they are hindering my job searches. Fine, I will see them once a week, but 3 times per week seems like overkill.

 

Of course, given that an unemployed candidate is only assigned to the Work Programme by Job Centre Plus whilst the Job Seekers Agreement remains active i) until they secure a job, or ii) until they are told by Job Centre Plus that continued attendance is no longer required, if a candidate gets a job and signs off, then by implication the Job Seekers Agreement is no longer in effect, and the candidate need no longer be party to any deceitful process.

 

After all, the Work Programme is part of the "Welfare To Work Sector", a Sector which does not contribute to wealth creation within the UK, and if according to Data Protection Legislation, a Work Programme Provider is simply considered to be a "DWP Job Centre Plus Data Processor", staff within any Work Programme Provider (including Ingeus) are likely to be less qualified, competent and experienced than mere Admin_Clerks within Job Centre Plus. For a comparison, one simply needs to refer to the New Deal and Flexible New Deal which, thankfully, were torpedoed. However, within the Flexible New Deal, Admin_Clerks within (for example) A4E and Working Links awarded themselves the ego boosting but baloneous title of 'Consultant".

 

Unless an Admin Clerk within the Work Programme Provider has actually been employed as a Professional Careers Advisor, can they be presumed to possess the competence to engage with candidates, understand them, let alone be credible sources of Professional Careers and Job Search Advice? Unlikely.

Edited April 8, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Misconstrued use of Admin

[nickk]

Of course, given that an unemployed candidate is only assigned to the Work Programme by Job Centre Plus whilst the Job Seekers Agreement remains active i) until they secure a job, or ii) until they are told by Job Centre Plus that continued attendance is no longer required, if a candidate gets a job and signs off, then by implication the Job Seekers Agreement is no longer in effect, and the candidate need no longer be party to any deceitful process.

 

After all, the Work Programme is part of the "Welfare To Work Sector", a Sector which does not contribute to wealth creation within the UK, and if according to Data Protection Legislation, a Work Programme Provider is simply considered to be a "DWP Job Centre Plus Data Processor", staff within any Work Programme Provider (including Ingeus) are likely to be less qualified, competent and experienced than mere Admin_Clerks within Job Centre Plus. For a comparison, one simply needs to refer to the New Deal and Flexible New Deal which, thankfully, were torpedoed. However, within the Flexible New Deal, Admin_Clerks within (for example) A4E and Working Links awarded themselves the ego boosting but baloneous title of 'Consultant".

 

Unless an Admin Clerk within the Work Programme Provider has actually been employed as a Professional Careers Advisor, can they be presumed to possess the competence to engage with candidates, understand them, let alone be credible sources of Professional Careers and Job Search Advice? Unlikely.

 

I just had some one-off, temporary work, so I guess I'm still compelled to go to all their appointments. I genuinely believe they are now wasting time.

 

How would ii. be applied? Surely when I have a full time job, I will obviously then sign off (..and won't need to see Ingeus anymore)

[Bakatcha]

How would ii. be applied? Surely when I have a full time job, I will obviously then sign off (..and won't need to see Ingeus anymore)

Even when you sign off you are still the property of the provider even though they cannot compel you to see them. They will try to stay in contact with you (to offer "support"!) and, more importantly, will regularly contact youe employer to check that their ongoing payments are secure.

[osdset]

Even when you sign off you are still the property of the provider even though they cannot compel you to see them. They will try to stay in contact with you (to offer "support"!) and, more importantly, will regularly contact youe employer to check that their ongoing payments are secure.

 

If a claimant is willing to forgo any 'back to work' payments then simply sign off as self employed, the pimps get nothing.

[Bakatcha]

Not true I'm afraid. The pimps will still claim if you are self employed. Best way is just to sign off without giving any specific reason e.g. "My circumstances have changed" and never communicate with pimp again.

[Nystagmite]

I'm sure someone once said you don't have to give a reason?

[Raven1]

It says on the little booklet you complete to sign off that you don't have to complete this information.

 

So don't!

[YorkyLad]

It says on the little booklet you complete to sign off that you don't have to complete this information.

 

So don't!

 

Raven's right. There are 4 parts to the 'stopping your claim section' and its prefixed with You do not have to provide the information we ask for in parts 1-4 below

 

However I've always completed part 4. which is necessary if you're want to claim benefit for 'an advance period' (anytime after the day you have last signed)

 

If you sign for the last time on the 1st of a month and your job starts on the 13th of the month then you'll lose 13 days JSA and Housing/Council Tax if you don't complete part 4

 

Next Time myself i'll complete Part 3 too. Which is 'stopping your claim for any other reason' (thus implying not full time work or education)

 

Bakatcha's recommendation of 'My circumstances have changed' is the best thing to stick into that!

[flumps1976]

You can declare that you have found work but you do not have to disclose the name of your employer only that the work will last 5 weeks or more to be considered for the Job Grant and any housing payment run on payments. As long as you state the daqte you start work that is all that JCP require to close your claim, you can't sign off via the telephony In Work Team to close your claim without providing the employer details but if you complete for ES40JP or ES40sJP you are not compelled to disclose the details

All you have to do ten is refuse to speak to the Work Programme Providers/Advisers as they will obviuosly want to find out the details so they can claim their payments but it's your phone and you have the right to speak or not to whoever you choose and they may try to write to you but again you don't have to reply to any of teir letters

[caledfwlch]

You can declare that you have found work but you do not have to disclose the name of your employer only that the work will last 5 weeks or more to be considered for the Job Grant and any housing payment run on payments. As long as you state the daqte you start work that is all that JCP require to close your claim, you can't sign off via the telephony In Work Team to close your claim without providing the employer details but if you complete for ES40JP or ES40sJP you are not compelled to disclose the details

All you have to do ten is refuse to speak to the Work Programme Providers/Advisers as they will obviuosly want to find out the details so they can claim their payments but it's your phone and you have the right to speak or not to whoever you choose and they may try to write to you but again you don't have to reply to any of teir letters

 

I wonder what would happen if you gave a provider the name of a wrong employer What exactly do they need from the employer to get their pound of flesh from the DWP? If there is a company you dislike, oooh, say your at Ingeus, tell them you have been given a job at A4E? and let them have a big argument with each other trying to get info that does not exist!

[flumps1976]

caledfwlch I like it

If the wrong info was given then all they could do is keep attempting to contact the client to ask for the correct info, don't forget the longer the client remains in work the more they get paid!

[caledfwlch]

caledfwlch I like it

If the wrong info was given then all they could do is keep attempting to contact the client to ask for the correct info, don't forget the longer the client remains in work the more they get paid!

 

If one has found work, then once one has arrived into the timescale when the Provider, if you told them who you were working for would get the maximum payout, I suppose you could try a "negotiation" for a few hundred quid in return for the info!

[Masso]

If one has found work, then once one has arrived into the timescale when the Provider, if you told them who you were working for would get the maximum payout, I suppose you could try a "negotiation" for a few hundred quid in return for the info!

 

I tried negotiating for a Personal Licence pay-out, but they would only meet me half way! You can try negotiating with the “pimps” but they can be tough at times.

 

I dealt with things in the wrong way to be honest. I should have given Ingeus the option, either they can have my withdrawal of consent letter, or the cash in my bank/back pocket by 5pm!

 

I ended up quitting the job I started, due to mistreatment by my boss. I have 2 interviews today so hope to be back in employment soon! Otherwise it’s the rapid reclaim route, and the sanction stamp from Ingeus for what I did to them. Hehehehe…………

[caledfwlch]

I tried negotiating for a Personal Licence pay-out, but they would only meet me half way! You can try negotiating with the “pimps” but they can be tough at times.

 

I dealt with things in the wrong way to be honest. I should have given Ingeus the option, either they can have my withdrawal of consent letter, or the cash in my bank/back pocket by 5pm!

 

I ended up quitting the job I started, due to mistreatment by my boss. I have 2 interviews today so hope to be back in employment soon! Otherwise it’s the rapid reclaim route, and the sanction stamp from Ingeus for what I did to them. Hehehehe…………

 

Can't sanction you for withdrawing consent Least this time round, if you have to go back, they know you wont take messing! As an awkward customer they will probably leave you alone in the main.

[Nystagmite]

They're (Tomorrow's People) trying to talk me into an NVQ for which I have no interest in doing. Which reminds me - forgot to ask them about an NVQ I am interested in doing.