Ingeus

[omskus]

Right. Got an appointment with one of these places next week. I've read about ten pages back and its pretty scary what goes on.

 

I need a quick guid know what to do/not to do.

 

I think I may have signed one of those waiver forms when I last signed on but am not sure - is it the job centre that gets you to sign them?

[caledfwlch]

Right. Got an appointment with one of these places next week. I've read about ten pages back and its pretty scary what goes on.

 

I need a quick guid know what to do/not to do.

 

I think I may have signed one of those waiver forms when I last signed on but am not sure - is it the job centre that gets you to sign them?

 

If I remember from my own experience with the Muppets at Working Links, it will be the Contractor that asks you to sign the Waiver, as you will have paperwork to fill in with them at your first appointment.

 

Google Consent Me as that web page will give you a ton of advice on refusing to sign the Waiver, and other issues with these providers.

[Nystagmite]

Finally getting somewhere, I think:

 

Adviser has finally been in touch; as has MP. Adviser has told me to come in next Wednesday at 9am to go over what I missed last Friday. Except, I already know a lot of that stuff. Still not allowed to see their complaints procedure and I will be given a form to fill in next week. No doubt it'll be inaccessible.

[gil_jnr]

Right. Got an appointment with one of these places next week. I've read about ten pages back and its pretty scary what goes on.

 

I need a quick guid know what to do/not to do.

 

I think I may have signed one of those waiver forms when I last signed on but am not sure - is it the job centre that gets you to sign them?

 

Hi from another Ingeus inmate

 

I'va been 'attached' to them since last august, had a grand total of 6 basic meetings in all that time, and not had to take any in-house or other courses or dealings with any of their subcontractors

 

The saving grace has been to find my own unpaid volunteer job (through www.do-it.org.uk) that's relevant to my skills and qualifications, enhances my CV, and that I really enjoy...the bonus is that regardless of how many hours you volunteer for, as long as you declare yourself as 'unpaid volunteer worker' through the jobcentre, you're exempted from MWAs

 

See: https://mandatoryvoluntarywork.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/mandatory-work-good-cause-opt-opts-internal-information-from-jobcentre-plus/

 

"3. Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be

considered for referral to MWA:

 

• currently working (paid or voluntary)
  
• undertaking employment related study / training
  
• taking part in or recently completed* another employment measure
  (contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to
  the labour market"
  

The other step was to withdraw the DPA waiver that I'd originally signed.

 

Now I'm left alone to get on with searching for a job under my own steam, they can't contact any job application or voluntary employer, can't refer me or my personal details to any other sub-contractor, and can't mandadte me to any activity

 

Edited March 22, 2012 by gil_jnr

[Bakatcha]

Hi gil_jnr

You say

can't refer me or my personal details to any other sub-contractor,

Not true I'm afraid. Whilst not waiving your rights under the data protection act prevents (or should prevent) dissemination of your details to potential emplyers i.e. your details should not be spammed to all and sundry, it does not prevent your consignment to a mini-pimp or your details being passed on to them. This is because they are all regarded as "data users" with the DWP being the "data controller". So details can be passed up and down the chain at will.

[HONDA17]

Hi from another Ingeus inmate

 

I'va been 'attached' to them since last august, had a grand total of 6 basic meetings in all that time, and not had to take any in-house or other courses or dealings with any of their subcontractors

 

The saving grace has been to find my own unpaid volunteer job that's relevant to my skills and qualifications, enhances my CV, and that I really enjoy...the bonus is that regardless of how many hours you volunteer for, as long as you declare yourself as 'unpaid volunteer worker' through the jobcentre, you're exempted from MWAs

 

"3. Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be

considered for referral to MWA:

 

• currently working (paid or voluntary)
  
• undertaking employment related study / training
  
• taking part in or recently completed* another employment measure
  (contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to
  the labour market"
  

The other step was to withdraw the DPA waiver that I'd originally signed.

Now I'm left alone to get on with searching for a job under my own steam, they can't contact any job application or voluntary employer, can't refer me or my personal details to any other sub-contractor, and can't mandadte me to any activity

 

good on you me next

[blynk12]

I've just started 'serving my time' with this Pimp. I'm already finding the Advisor condescending, intimidating and downright rude. More-so since I refused to give them any of my personal information which includes a CV to do as they please. As retaliation, the advisor is now making me come in more times.

 

Interesting to read everyones dealings with this Pimp. It's giving me insight in how to handle the cr&p my advisor is throwing at me.

[means2anend]

good on you me next

 

 

Originally Posted by gil_jnr

Hi from another Ingeus inmate

 

I'va been 'attached' to them since last august, had a grand total of 6 basic meetings in all that time, and not had to take any in-house or other courses or dealings with any of their subcontractors

 

The saving grace has been to find my own unpaid volunteer job that's relevant to my skills and qualifications, enhances my CV, and that I really enjoy...the bonus is that regardless of how many hours you volunteer for, as long as you declare yourself as 'unpaid volunteer worker' through the jobcentre, you're exempted from MWAs

 

"3. Given the policy intent of MWA, the following claimants must not be

considered for referral to MWA:

currently working (paid or voluntary)

undertaking employment related study / training

taking part in or recently completed* another employment measure

(contracted or non-contracted) aimed at helping them move closer to

the labour market"

The other step was to withdraw the DPA waiver that I'd originally signed.

Now I'm left alone to get on with searching for a job under my own steam, they can't contact any job application or voluntary employer, can't refer me or my personal details to any other sub-contractor, and can't mandadte me to any activity

 

 

good on you me next

 

 

AND me....

[means2anend]

I have been reading Employment support Regulations 2008/794 'The Regulations'...and in Part 7 it goes onto state that if a person is exempt work ...in this case voluntary work that s/he will remain in ESA and not be moved on to JSA...but this should not be confused with interpreting it as ...'as I am in voluntary work I am entitled to ESA'...UNLESS one is already in the ESA assessment phase waiting to undergo 2nd phase assessment and fails to get into support group but is put into WRA group...

 

Is this a correct interpretation

[means2anend]

2011 No. 1349

SOCIAL SECURITY

The Employment and Support Allowance(Work-Related Activity) Regulations 2011

 

PART 2

Work-related activity

Requirement to undertake work-related activity

 

3.—(1) The Secretary of State may require a person who satisfies the requirements inparagraph (2) to undertake work-related activity(8) as a condition of continuing to be entitled to thefull amount of employment and support allowance payable to that person.(2) The requirements referred to in paragraph (1) are that the person—

 

(a)is required to take part in, or has taken part in, one or more work-focused interviewspursuant to regulation 54 of the ESA Regulations;

(b)is not a lone parent who is responsible for and a member of the same household as a childunder the age of 5;

©is not entitled to a carer’s allowance; and

(d)is not entitled to a carer premium under paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 to the ESA Regulations.

 

(3) A requirement to undertake work-related activity ceases to have effect if the person becomesa member of the support group(9)

(4) A requirement imposed under paragraph (1)—

(a)must be reasonable in the view of the Secretary of State, having regard to the person’scircumstances; and

(b)may not require the person to—

(i)apply for a job or undertake work, whether as an employee or otherwise; or

(ii)undergo medical treatment.

(5) A person who is a lone parent and in any week is responsible for and a member of the samehousehold as a child under the age of 13, may only be required to undertake work-related activityunder paragraph (1) during the child’s normal school hours

 

It appears from the above Regulation that if one fails one of the 2 tests then one would still be entitled to ESA but put into the WRA group and NOT support group...this means that one would not be at the behest of the Pimps above...and that one can get on one's own choice for looking for for type of work suited to oneself work without being monitored by PIMPS above and NOT being sent to any old job by the PIMPS above.

Edited March 27, 2012 by means2anend

[omskus]

Great advice. Registered my interest for some volunteer positions (which are actually more demanding and useful than basic jobs - actually help me get a half decent job).

 

Got asked to fill in two forms when I visited. One was a data protection consent form and the other a consent to share form - I presume I protect my DPA rights by not signing/completing these? and I will be within my rights - no sancations etc?

[Bakatcha]

Presumably it is the pimp that is asking you to fill in the forms? Presumably the volunteer positions aren't dependant on you filling in the forms? You have every right to withold permission. See consent.me

Why 2 forms? -it would seem that they do the same thing!

[means2anend]

The relationship between entitlement to remaning in ESA and Volunteer work and hence lawful avoidance attending pimps work programmes can be found here straight from Authority..I redacted it for the sake of clarity.

 

 

2008 No. 794

SOCIAL SECURITY

The Employment and Support Allowance Regulations 2008

PART 7

EFFECT OF WORK ON ENTITLEMENT TO AN EMPLOYMENT AND SUPPORT ALLOWANCE

 

A claimant who works to be treated as not entitled to an employment and support allowance

40.—(1) Subject to the following paragraphs, a claimant is to be treated as not entitled to an employment and support allowance in any week in which that claimant does work.

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to—

(f) any of the categories of work set out in regulation 45 (exempt work).

 

 

43.——(4) In this regulation—

“volunteer” means a person who is engaged in voluntary work otherwise than for a relative, where the only payment received or due to be paid to the person by virtue of being so engaged is in respect of any expenses reasonably incurred by the person in connection with that work.

 

Exempt work

45.—(1) The categories of work referred to in regulation 40(2)(f) are set out in the following paragraphs

(6) Work done where the claimant receives no payment of earnings and where the claimant—(a)is engaged by a charity or voluntary organisation; or (b)is a volunteer, where the Secretary of State is satisfied in any of those cases that it is reasonable for the claimant to provide the service free of charge.

(10) In this regulation “relevant benefit” means—

(a)an employment and support allowance; or

(b)credits under regulations made under section 22(5) of the Contributions and Benefits Act(96),

“volunteer” has the same meaning it has in regulation 43;

“work placement” means practical work experience with an employer, which is neither paid nor undertaken in expectation of payment

 

 

The above makes all the more sense when read in conjunction with a post further above in regard to the Policy Intent of JCP Plus for the purposes of Mandatory Work Activity and also Work Related Activity

 

hth

Edited March 30, 2012 by means2anend

[Prestonian]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

[means2anend]

Presumably in relation to post 463 and in answer to post 461, consent forms would be an irrelevant issue and would not be up for signing in the first place

 

There are NO express requirements for Consent Forms in any of the above provisions.

 

I struggled to find ANY sanctions applicable to refusing signing Consent forms in ESA 2008/794

 

In fact there appears to be no mention at all of Consent Forms in ESA 2008/794

 

The Sanctions refer to Work/Claimant Commitments ..etc

 

ESA finds it's origins in Welfare Reform Act 2007..this Act appears to provide NO express power for the Minister(by Regulations) to Sanction or Reduce ESA as a result of failing to sign any Consent form..

 

Indeed Issue of Consent Forms do not feature at all as part of the Conditionaliity precedent to entitlement of ESA...OR once entitlement to ESA to affect any continuance of receipt of ESA by failing/refusing to sign any CF's

Edited March 31, 2012 by means2anend

[Nystagmite]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

 

We're not all like that.

 

My issue has finally been sorted now, I think.

[caledfwlch]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

 

I was with Working Links for a year. They did nothing for me at all. Except for offering 2 Work Trials 1 was medically unsuitable, and they knew that as they had my medical problems on file, 1 was skills, experience & partly medically unsuitable.

 

Trial 1 - lifting and carrying boxes for a wholesalers. I have a permanent shoulder injury and Neuropathy which prevents physical work.

Trial 2 - Chef for a restaurant. I have no training as a Chef, and my Shoulder injury, neuropathy combined with coordination problems would stop me working as one, if I even had a clue how to be one. I was half tempted to accept it just to completely destroy Working Link's relationship with that employer, as I doubt after me they would have trusted WL again Due to coordination and neuropathy I constantly cut/injure myself, so when cooking, I work very, very slowly, nowhere near fast enough for a retail food environment.

 

I am 33. I have worked since I was 16 for 16 years, I don't think the country "owes me" however, I also don't think I owe the government slave labour.

[Nystagmite]

I also don't think I owe the government slave labour.

 

This is partly why I refused to do a placement with Sainsburys. Charity shops, yes. Major retailers who make money like that, no.

[means2anend]

This is partly why I refused to do a placement with Sainsburys. Charity shops, yes. Major retailers who make money like that, no.

 

 

YES...that is my outlook too...I will volunteer for the 'small' folk in order to contribute to them to grow BUT not for large corporates:evil: who in my estimation will not 'distribute' my efforts to those in greater need:-D

[Arka25]

Hello everyone,

I myself have a question regarding Ingeus... I was referred to the Work Programme a month ago. I've been self employed for the past 6 months and kept signing on at the Job Centre as advised by my advisor. I was getting maybe £10 a week, but more often than never nothing, as my income was regularly more than 400 a month. Anyway, I had been thinking about signing off for months and I did it right after my first appointment with Ingeus. I was a bit scared off by the slavery stories and had no intention of wasting my time looking for work in their office when I could do this from home with my database of CVs and such. Maybe I'm wrong and they would have been helpful but I had to go abroad on a family emergency anyway so I had to sign off.

Now the thing is, they have done nothing for me. I saw an adviser for about 15mn and nothing came out of it. I don't see why they should be paid for that. Now the adviser told me someone would call me to check if I was working, and would do so about every two weeks. I told her that yes, I was working but that it was the same as before. I understand it does not make any difference to them. Former jobseeker working = job done = money, even though it's not thanks to them.

So is there anything I can I do to prevent them from being paid? Shall I contact the DWP or Job Centre?

Thanks a lot!

[Bakatcha]

You should have refused to speak to Ingeus once you had signed off. You should not have volunteered info to either Ingeus or the JC about your new status (self employed). When signing off you should have said "my circumstances have changed and I no longer wish to claim JSA". This could be a lot of things e.g. lottery win, inheritance, new (rich) partner, new job, emigration etc. etc. They may still do an "off benefit check" and attempt to get their pound of flesh but at least you're not making it easy for them.

[Arka25]

I've been self employed since July so it's not something I could really keep from the JC. Ah damn, I'm just too polite... Ingeus sent me a letter regarding a next appointment, so I emailed them to say I had signed off and wanted to cancel the appointment. She emailed me back: "Thanks for the email, the work programme runs for 2 years and you are still registered to us for that period. If you start work or are working self employed and not signing on benefits can you please let me know and that means I can update our system .Please keep me updated with your circumstances and let me know if you are working." It makes sense why she was insisting this much on the work part. Is there anything I can from do from now on?

[Masso]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

Congratulations on finding yourself a job! I wish you all the best with your new career.

 

I found my job myself, so why should Ingeus get any money from all the hard work I put in?!?!

Yes, Ingeus do help with Travel costs and other things. But when I asked for help regarding a personal license they refused to help me. I had to negotiate with Ingeus who then offered me £100, but only once they knew my new employer details.

 

You say the younger generation expect to be handed everything on a plate?...Obviously you know me because I am young?

 

I believe Ingeus expect everything on a plate! They wanted to claim outcome related payments for doing nothing! I FOUND THE JOB MYSELF!!!

 

I loved the look on my Advisors face when I gave him my withdrawal of consent letter.

[flumps1976]

Arka25 yes you are "contracted" to the work programme provider for 2 years however you do not have to speak to them regardless of what they will try to tell you, you can always refuse to speak to tem if they call and you certainly do not have to answer their emails, they will attempt to access the information about you in future by contacting JCP to confirm if you have reclaimed or for the reason why your claim ended.

We have now been advised that if the work programme contact the office by telephone we are to refuse to divulge any informatio that they request and that are only able to be advised about changes in circumstances which we already do in writing as and when the change in circu,stances occurs in your claim.

Once you have terminated the claim at the JCP/DWP they will be notified in writing that the claim has closed (I never disclose the name of the employer btw and neither do my colleagues that I work with) and if the provider contacts the office to confirm any details we tell them that we are unable to disclose that information and that if the customer wanted them to be made aware of that they would disclose the information themselves.

[Arantine Ehlael]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

 

Ingeus are a private company who exist to help people get into sustainable employment, or so they claim. Towards that end they’re supposed to cover the cost of their client’s travel and retraining – under the usually correct assumption that the overwhelming majority of people on welfare aren’t exactly flush with money.

 

Ingeus refused to cover the cost of Masso’s Personal License (only eventually grudgingly being prepared to go half way after Masso stood up to them) – purposefully ignoring his inability to stump up the cash himself – which is very much against their purpose and mission statement, and makes no economic sense for them in the long run as it would cost more for them to pay for future meetings with Masso, indefinite travel to those meetings, future applications and future retraining.

 

I’d say it was a great example of the jobsworth, short-term mentality, insincerity and general idiocy sadly dominant in the welfare-to-work sector rather than that all young people expect to be handed everything.

 

In fact, when it comes to the current younger generation: they have to pay the entire cost of their own further education (which you didn’t); they have longer than you to work until they can claim a State pension, and probably for less value than you will be able to; the shrunken labour market they’re entering into has become competitive to the point of lunacy and loaded against them; and all to pay for the public money spent on you or propping up failed businesses to stop you from dropping into utter ruin. So WHO exactly is expecting everything to be handed to them on a plate?

Edited April 4, 2012 by Arantine Ehlael