Mutating Corona Virus

[honeybee13]

I agree, UB, personal choice. I had a booster jab yesterday.

 

I think the situation is more nuanced for people like health service personnel and carers though.

 

The information that TOR posted might be better received, and at least considered, if it didn't come from someone who lied in court and was reprimanded by a high court judge and claimed that all Brits would be able to have Irish passports after Brexit.

[tobyjugg2]

57 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Those on either side of the argument will point to their sources of information.

 

 

I haven't seen ANY worthwhile presentation of information from our anti-vaxxers here or anywhere - just mal-presented distorted misinformation and outright lies.

Which should be called out at every point

 

 

 

[theoldrouge]

So ,many points to reply to 
to Mr Jugg, had you been paying attention you would have noticed that I have already posted a link to Dr Malhotra’s peer reviewed paper 
to which ,of course , I don’t expect you fully read, but merely used your customary colourful language to attempt to denigrate 
to @honeybee13yes plenty of lies on both sides of the brexit debate but that has nothing to do with Mr Bridgen’s views on the vaccine 
to @unclebulgaria67yes I fully agree vaccine should be a personal but FULLY informed choice 
Yes for some there are no side effects 
and it’s a gamble 
for some that gamble is more Russian Roulette and these reports are becoming more common
 

https://www.eadt.co.uk/news/23189219.suffolk-jack-last-died-direct-result-covid-jab/

[honeybee13]

yes plenty of lies on both sides of the brexit debate but that has nothing to do with Mr Bridgen’s views on the vaccine 

 

Bridgen also lied in court. Are you saying the vaccine views are just his now?

[tobyjugg2]

On 14/12/2022 at 18:31, theoldrouge said:

 

Heres what Mr Bridgen actually said as reported by Hansard

 

 

 

No link to anything there let alone peer reviewed studies - just you trying to claim you are quoting something hansard claims Bridgend said ... and prior to that some opinion piece from conservativewoman

distorted anti-vaxer heresay piled upon heresay

 

Simple repeatedly demonstrated and proven fact - Vaccines save lives

 

and still awaiting your stance on MMR and flu vaccines

- if you aren't too ashamed that is.

Edited December 15, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sdngmLXl5U4&t=2058s
 

Watch the leading cardiologist discuss with Mark Dolan on GB News the issues raised by Andrew Bridgen in his recent Commons speech calling for Covid vaccinations to be halted over safety concerns.

[honeybee13]

£9bn lost during the pandemic, and counting.

 

Tax dodging and non-compliance during pandemic cost UK £9bn – NAO | Tax avoidance | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

HMRC moved 1,350 compliance staff due to Covid, National Audit Office says, and losses are expected to grow

 

[honeybee13]

Thoughts from John Burn-Murdoch in the FT, on the NHS crisis.

 

Years of under-investment have left English hospitals with creaking infrastructure and no spare capacity

 

Welcome to nginx!

ARCHIVE.PH

 

[tobyjugg2]

The amount wasted by the UK corrupt populist guv on their pals profits is going to be utterly enormous when anything approaching the final tally comes in.

* Test and Trace

* PPE

* Corrupt loan system (with the banks collusion)

* and Uncap those bankers bonuses so they profit from the corrupt practices

 

I find it astonishing that the disingenuous anti-vax nutter brigade (IMCCO) will scour the world looking for some other fringe nutter to support their fantasies when such actual conspiracy and corruption is right in all our faces - and those same conspiracy nuts will often make excuses and support the actual corrupt ministers/government

- who remove water quality monitors aND TAX EVASION OFFICERS in 'cost cutting' exercises

 

 

Lets consider one example of a 19% pay award (really just largely what they have already lost in real term over the last 10 years) that will cost the nation LESS than a month of Truss' government and policies

- and we would have a lot more to show for the Nurses being given that money rather than populist doner brexiter money market manipulators betting against the UK economy to profit millions at a cost of BILLIONS to the UK taxpayer.

Edited December 17, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

well who would have thought that this would ever come from this source 
 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/13/ron-desantis-grand-jury-investigation-covid-vaccines-florida

 

Florida governor seeks grand jury investigation into Covid vaccines

Ron DeSantis asks state supreme court to investigate undefined ‘wrongdoing’ related to vaccinations
 

 

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

He does seem to want questions answered, Fauci has skeletons in cupboards allegedly going back to drug trials on orphan and Foster  children in NYC in 1980s/1990's also

AIDS Drugs Tested On Foster Kids

WWW.CBSNEWS.COM

---

Researchers Tested Drugs On Kids Without Advocate Protection

 

[tobyjugg2]

Guardian just reporting desanitise Pandering to the trump/Maga/anti-vax nuts isnt he ..

seems to be working too ..

 

How come they aren't dead if they follow trumps recommendations on Covid .. bleach etc

- obviously their rhetoric is just for the nuts, not themselves

 

bet the 'brass' are all vaccinated and using recommended anti virals .. whatever they say to the drones ..

 

 

Mind you, is that why trump lost? - as linked earlier in the thread, those defining themselves as republicans (Maga) were dying of covid at three times the rate of the people who define themselves as democrats  ...

- if it were the other way around I'll bet MAGA would be shouting that its Gods will/divine justice?

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

 

“I find it astonishing that the disingenuous anti-vax nutter brigade (IMCCO) will scour the world looking for some other fringe nutter to support their fantasies and find support right there in the Guardian “
The Guardian news desk couldn’t have got your email eh Mr Jugg
 

moving on 
https://dailysceptic.org/2022/12/19/i-have-tried-sounding-the-alarm-about-the-vaccines-causing-cancer-relapse-but-the-mainstream-media-dont-want-to-know/

[tobyjugg2]

31 minutes ago, theoldrouge said:

 

“I find it astonishing that the disingenuous anti-vax nutter brigade (IMCCO) will scour the world looking for some other fringe nutter to support their fantasies and find support right there in the Guardian “
The Guardian news desk couldn’t have got your email eh Mr Jugg
 

 

 

No - you just haven't read the article

they are simply reporting anti-vax dog whistle crap

- and you pair came running

 

"Ron DeSantis asks state supreme court to investigate undefined ‘wrongdoing’ related to vaccinations"

 

So hes not actually claiming anything was or is wrong - probably afraid of being sued for lying if he did - like Jones has been.

Just dog whistling ...

(although i genuinely think that term is an insult to dogs)
 

 

[theoldrouge]

Dr Kerryn Phelps reveals ‘devastating’ Covid vaccine injury, says doctors have been ‘censored’

 

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/dr-kerryn-phelps-reveals-devastating-covid-vaccine-injury-says-doctors-have-been-censored/news-story/0c1fa02818c99a5ff65f5bf852a382cf

 

[tobyjugg2]

 

Sadly the odd very small handful of people do suffer an adverse reaction to vaccines, which is well documented and commonly easily managed

and another handful suffer a milder form of the inflammatory response they would have if they caught covid, let alone get left with long covid.

 

BUT those trying to promote these small number of adverse reactions; which are commonly (in the tiny tiny number of occurrences there are) far more easily treated and managed than a bout of covid would be for them; as some conspiracy is both loony, dishonest and harmful

 

 

Lets all hope its only the anti-vax promoters who suffer from the impacts of their misrepresentation rather than ordinary folk who might give their utter bo**ocks some credibility

 

[tobyjugg2]

Courtesy of Scientific American and CDC

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Brexit is damaging the NHS.

 

Brexit damaging NHS with staff shortages and expensive medicines, study finds

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

Nuffield Trust report finds Brexit ‘fantasies’ are compounding ‘severe challenges’

 

[tobyjugg2]

re the expensive medications profiteering? - seems at least some of it is with middlemen ramping up prices and Torys declaring them Brexit success stories

 

Mone'y Mone'y Mone'y must be contributing to Johnsons comeback ...

 

 

Government sues PPE firm linked to Michelle Mone

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

---

PPE Medpro vows to ‘rigorously defend’ itself ahead of High Court proceedings

 

In the hopes of getting off, and sunack has nothing to lose and has a sacrificial (nerr just some headlines) lamb/old goat

[honeybee13]

Adam Wagner, barrister and Covid rules expert, has read Matt Hancock's book so we don't have to. There are some interesting insights IMHO.

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/matt-hancock-the-hero-pandemic-diaries-review

 

[tobyjugg2]

Is 'little zero' spelt  s p h i n c t e r?

 

- makes more sense than hand-cock claiming to be a hero

while whinging that Mone bullied him into giving her other halves companies PPE contracts at 200%+ cost

[honeybee13]

Prof Sridar on the current Covid situation in China.

 

China is on the brink of its first major Covid surge. How it copes will affect us all | Devi Sridhar | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

With relatively low vaccination rates and a lack of reliable data, 60% of the population may soon be infected, says global public health professor Devi...

 

[tobyjugg2]

Just spent an hour catching up on the situation in China, its rather complex.

 

Take up of boosters has not been so great there and they have an aging population and there are a couple of worrying strains causing breakthrough infections..

 

Even America is seeing fallout from the anti-vax BS with lower takeup of boosters thanks to Trump and his cronies - and the other dross spreading the lies.

 

Last I looked the US was still suffering about 300 deaths a day from Covid, the largest proportion in the older age range and more of the none boosted.unvaccinated - although even the boosted are suffering.

Stats are skewed due to the larger number of vaccinated, with unvaccinated numbers getting smaller all the time .. see graphic higher up the thread plus breakthrough infections.

 

- Worthy of note that that the US's current approx 300+ deaths per day (and rising) from covid is a significant percentage more deaths per hour , even at this late stage, than the total number of deaths where vaccination was causally associated:

(almost exclusively severe allergic reaction early in the pandemic @ a first dose - Total in USA 9 (nine) after over 660 million jabs.

-yes, anti-vaxxers - they've gone through all the VAERS and reported.

The UK is harder to define as the populists have avoided registering the data - but 5 was last confirmed figure in the UK I saw)

(source - CDC and ONS)

 

REAL figures, not anti-vaxxer lies.

 

The problem is with older immune systems, they need more help (vaccination wise) more often to effectively help the older immune systems fight covid infection.

 

 

Oh, and when looking at cost ..savings as a result of the vaccination program, in the US its calculated to have saved $900 BILLION dollars purely in avoided healthcare costs :as well as 3 million lives in the US alone.

 

Impact of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccination Efforts: An Update on Averted Deaths, Hospitalizations, and Health Care Costs Through March 2022

WWW.COMMONWEALTHFUND.ORG

---

This study finds that without the U.S. vaccination effort, there would have been 2.2 million additional COVID-19 deaths and 17 million more...

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by tobyjugg2

[theoldrouge]

https://doctorsforpatientsuk.com/press-release/
 Watch the video of doctors speaking out about the vaccines and the side-effects they are seeing in their clinical practice.

[tobyjugg2]

@theoldrougereported:

"Several doctors in DFPUK have submitted multiple Yellow Card reports of adverse events to the MHRA"

 

After only a few hundred million jabs:

* "It really really hurt my arm" almost 23 people reported

* "I got a headache the day after and my arm was sore for more than a day"  Said 5 others

 In the most serious cases:

* "My 96 year old grandad had a vaccination and died only 18 months after it" said a distraught grandson

* "My brother was run over by a car after having the jab" another reported

* and in other serious cases it was reported by a number that: 'It hurt so bad when she pushed that needle in my arm I almost fainted and had to have the rest of the week off work on the sick"

 

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Vaccination averts 3 million deaths in the US alone

 

Covid vaccines averted 3 million deaths in US, study finds

WWW.STATNEWS.COM

---

Without vaccines, the U.S. would have experienced four times as many Covid-19 deaths in the time since December 2020, a new...

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by tobyjugg2