Ingeus

[gil_jnr]

I think you have to be in work for the maximum of 2 years, hence the 2 year 'obligation' to whichever provider you are sent to. I'm quite possibly wrong on that though and it could just be 26 weeks (6 months) between claim dates.

 

Incidentally, one of the points in signing off and to get the £100 back-to-work payment, along with the 4 week benefit run-on is whether the work is to last 5 weeks or longer. I'm assuming it was Ingeus that found you that job that lasted for only 5 weeks? If so they'd still get a result payment, regardless of it of being of any long-term benefit to yourself, which no-doubt they'd paint it as.

[Emrys2011]

The funny thing is, I found the job myself, Ingeus/Papworth didn't help in any way at all in finding the vacancy. I went to them on the Monday, applied online either that day, or the next day for the Christmas temp job, had the interview on the Tuesday or Wednesday, and was given the job there and then. The contract didn't actually start until the 31st of October last year, and it finished on the 6th of January this year. So starting on that day (Monday 31st October), I was employed for just under 9 weeks. I did get the £100 back to work payment (which came as a surprise). I'd feel annoyed if they got paid, considering they didn't actually find me the job, because they hadn't earned it. Is it actually written in any paperwork they give us that I will be on their books for 2 years?

[gil_jnr]

I was employed for just under 9 weeks. I did get the £100 back to work payment (which came as a surprise). I'd feel annoyed if they got paid, considering they didn't actually find me the job, because they hadn't earned it. Is it actually written in any paperwork they give us that I will be on their books for 2 years?

 

If you signed both the forms at the first meeting with the provider, in particular the second 'employer consent' form, it's likely they will have gotten a payment of some sort out of it, especially if you worked with a larger company with a HR department so that any employment queries from them may not have gotten back to you, regardless of you having found the job yourself.

 

I've looked through every scrap of paperwork I have from both Inglorious and the JC and there's nothing whatsoever about being retained to them for 2 years. Nor do I recall any mention of it at any JC interview prior to referral.

 

Yet we are bound to them for 2 years. There has to be some legal precedent under contract law that can be used against them surely? On the previous scheme, New Deal, it meant you signed a contract with whoever you were placed with and you recieved a P45 from the JC, so indicating a legally-binding contractual obligation, but there's nothing like that with these providers.

 

The way I can see it, is that the prime provider is a sub-contractor to the JC for the Work Programme, so legal responsibility will lie with the JC, and in effect deputised, as they have been granted the power of sanction, but not the right to enforce it or end your claim.

 

Even if you work less than 16 hours a week and are on what the JC classes as a low income, they insist you have to still claim JSA and therefore still bound to the prime provider as you are a claimant of that benefit.

 

However, I am trying to investigate whether declaring yourself as self-employed but working less than 16 p/wk would actually qualify you to recieve Income support, and have to declare your earnings on a B16 form instead.

 

I've only found conflicting information on this so far, but if it could be determined as fact that you can indeed claim IS as being self-employed (perhaps declaring 1 hour per week at £1 per hour, as being self-employed exempts you from the National Minimum Wage), it would be a way to scupper the Work Programme plans and Ingeus profits.

[Emrys2011]

I honestly can't remember, but I will try to find my paperwork from last year if I can. I remember my advisor saying to us (a group of about 7 or 8 of us) when we first went there last year that we'd be with them for 2 years, even if we did find employment during our time with them, but I don't recall signing anything. I hope there is some legal precedent that can be used against them.

 

If any of us did decide to declare ourselves as self-employed, would we need to provide any proof to confirm it?

 

Would it be of any use if I made an appointment to see an advisor at the Jobcentre, who I know and get on well with? And try to explain the situation to him, and see if he could do anything? Or would I be better off trying to make an appointment with Ingeus/Papworth, asking to see someone more senior then my advisor, and talking to them?

[flumps1976]

From what I remember in my brief over view you are issued with paperwork at the JCP office detailing the reasons why you have been referred to the Work Programme Providers and this is on form WP05 which does state that you are mandated for a period of 2 years to the providers.

Also if you are referred for consideration of a sanction by your providers the JCP have no input in that decision, it is between the providers and the DMA team base in the Benefits Processing Office.

This should all be explained in the induction meeting with the providers.

[Emrys2011]

I've just had a phone call from one of the jobs I applied to recently, they've offered me a 12 hour permanent contract (3 days a week, 6-10am) I'll tell the Jobcentre when I sign on next week.

 

I phoned my advisor at Ingeus/Papworth to tell him I've been given a permanent contract. Despite what I've written in all e-mails to him, he didn't say anything to me about it, so me getting a job (all by myself) must have made him forget all about them. I told him when it starts, but not how many hours I'll be doing (he asked if it was full time, which i said yes) and which company I'll be working for. I didn't ask him if I still needed to do my 2 days a week job search at the Ingeus/Papworth office, although he said someone from Ingeus/Papworth will be ringing me within the next two days for more information. Should I tell them how many hours and days I will be working, or should I not tell him anything? My advisor did ask for me to e-mail him with contact details for the company I'll be working for, he said something about wanting to know, so they can confirm I have found employment. He also said either he or the person phoning me this week will ask if I still want Ingeus/Papworth to stay in touch with me, or to stop all contact (which I will be asking )

Edited February 14, 2012 by Emrys2011

[Anti Ingeus]

I get the impression this waiver form is like “THE GOLDEN TICKET” to Ingeus!

Edited February 15, 2012 by Anti Ingeus

[LongHairedLily]

Congrats on finding a job! I don't think Ingeus will be paid on you finding a 12 hour role though. I think payment is based on find jobs 16+ hours. So I guess they won't be very happy about that!

[Emrys2011]

Thanks Helly13 . Since my contract is for only 12 hours (but i'm fairly certain i will be asked to do overtime when fixtures/stock is moved around in store after or before closing times), i should be doing extra hours. Even though the jobcentre usually says that i have to sign off if my contract is 16 hours or more, can i still sign off since my contract will be for 12 hours? I want to sign off if i can, because i've had enough of signing on. I've worked it out, and i'll be earning just over a tad more then what i currently get with JSA. Can i claim anything to boost what I'll be earning, and if I can, will I still need to sign on?

[flumps1976]

Helly13 is correct they will only be paid if you move away from benefits into paid employment >16 hours per week.

It will be entirely your decision if you decide to continue with the JSA claim or not.

For part time employmemt and the effect on wages you can keep the firs £5 (£10 for a couple in total) from your weekly wage and the remainder of your part time wages is decucted penny for penny from your JSA award, so in short if you earn £5.00 or more thatn your weekly JSA award then you won't receive payment of JSA.

What you will need to consider then is if it is worth the hastle of attending the JCP fortnightly and with the Work Programme providers however frequently they decide you need to be attending. If it is still worht attending then carry on or if you think you can't be bothered with it then terminate your claim, you don't need to give a reason to JCP and then you can end your current relationship with the WProg (although if you return to claim benefits within a 26 week period you wil automatically be referred back to the WProg again.

[Emrys2011]

I don't really want to continue with my JSA claim, it's a pain in the backside having to go there every two weeks, so I'll sign on next week, and then tell them i'd like to sign off (which i'll need to do by phone again i presume?) because i'll start work before my next sign on date after next week's sign on date.

 

Thanks for the info Flumps1976

[Nystagmite]

I don't really want to continue with my JSA claim, it's a pain in the backside having to go there every two weeks, so I'll sign on next week, and then tell them i'd like to sign off (which i'll need to do by phone again i presume?) because i'll start work before my next sign on date after next week's sign on date.

 

Thanks for the info Flumps1976

 

When you started claiming JSA, you were given a small pack which had your job search dairy and a few other bits in. There was a form in there which when you want to stop your claim, you fill this in instead. I'm sure I was told that when you sign on, you can tell them you've got a job and they'll sort it out for you.

[Emrys2011]

I'll have to check that, thanks Nystagmite. I know when I signed off last year (when my Christmas temp was going to start), I phoned a number in my JSA book to sign off. I had to tell them when the job would start, who I would be working for, that sort of thing. So I will ask when I next sign on what they suggest.

[Bakatcha]

I'll have to check that, thanks Nystagmite. I know when I signed off last year (when my Christmas temp was going to start), I phoned a number in my JSA book to sign off. I had to tell them when the job would start, who I would be working for, that sort of thing. So I will ask when I next sign on what they suggest.

 

You don't have to say who you will be working for - if you do then this info will be available to the pimps who will probably hassle your new employer to find out if you work more than 16 hours pw - if you're a satisfactory employee etc. etc. Far better to just say "my circumstnces have changed and I wish to terminate my claim".

[LongHairedLily]

I looked into working less than the 16 hours and have applied for roles 13 hours plus. I was informed by the JCP due to the low wages I could claim Income Support and still be helped with the housing costs etc. Atleast I would be doing something and not feeling like I'm under the coshe! I thinkl how you spell ! I was headhunted yesterday so I'm hoping to go back to my chosen field.

[Raven1]

I am so glad this thread now bubbles just below Ingeus' own ludicrous self promotion in a Google search.

 

When I started it there was no central point of reference like this; now the truth is out and in one handy location.

 

Keep it up folks!!!

 

Unity is strength (to coin a phrase)

[Emrys2011]

I thought that was the case Bakatcha, thanks for confirming.

 

Helly13, I still live at home with my parents (much cheaper then paying rent and any bills on my own), and I do pay them housekeeping money (started doing that even when I first ever signed on, about 10+ years ago), and have been ever since.

[Anti Ingeus]

I applied for a job with Ingeus and all I got was this lousy email :-

 

Dear Christopher

 

Employment Advisor (Southport)

 

Thank you for your interest in a career with Ingeus UK Ltd. We appreciate the time and effort you have taken to submit your application.

 

After carefully reviewing all applications I am afraid that we shall not be proceeding with your application as there were other candidates who more closely matched our requirements.

 

Due to the high volume of applications we have received for this role, we are unable to provide individual feedback.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in Ingeus UK Ltd and I wish you every success in finding a suitable position in the future.

 

Kind regards,

 

Ingeus Resourcing Team

Edited February 17, 2012 by Anti Ingeus

[Anti Ingeus]

Ingeus refuse to employ me…

 

But are happy to take Government money when I find a job!!!

[Bakatcha]

Consider it a narrow escape!

[flumps1976]

You can either complete your ES40 booklet and hand it in at the JCP office and you don't have give the details of finding work and naming the company, you aren't going to qualify for the Job Grant or the run on payments for housing benefit due to hours

[silv.surfer]

Anti Ingeus

 

Count your blessings That is a very narrow escape

 

That email is just an example of what they think of their Staff - Thankfully you dont appear to measure up to their requirements - Pushy, ignorant, self opinionated and Targets at any cost.

 

If you are at all reasonable you would not have lasted very long - there are a few of them around -

which shows that Friendly, Helpfull and Reasonable are not generally welcome long term.

 

Congratulation on missing out you wouldnt have liked it and would have wanted out in a few months anyway.

 

flumps1976

 

Update on My Neighbour - posted the Decision Maker Letter today - Recorded Del. including p/copies of relevant documents etc. -just fingers crossed now -any idea approx how long to wait ?

 

When we receive a Decision Good or Bad I will try and assemble the whole Journey on a New Thread together with the Relevant Links you showed which were Brilliant Help - Thanks again.

Edited February 18, 2012 by silv.surfer

[flumps1976]

silvsurfer, unfortunately I can't even give an idea on how long a decision will take. It depends on so many things, current work loads, amount of backlog currently sat in trays of pending work, staffing levels if further information will be required. A reconsideration can on average take anything from a couple of working days upwards.

[silv.surfer]

Thanks flumps1976

 

That is more or less what I said, given the probable huge number of Reviews needed, mainly brought about by Providors Antics we have read about on here and elsewhere.

 

He has just got a result from Low Wage HB but nothing from CTB ( Does he have to apply for CTB seperately or is it all one apply ) or Working Tax Credits yet - I know WTC take a while.

 

He went in to Council Fri am - will find out more Sun Morning. Update later

 

Thanks

[Ingeusisrubbish]

I have experienced Ingeus, also what a nasty corporation it's all about profit and NOT people. No one have mention that Ingeus gets £7 million from the tax payer, the service their supply, is no different from the job center but JCP is more professional. What their are doing I can do it for myself, I got access to the internet I can job search for myself I also got an advisor at the Job center. The man that meant to be giving me advice is extremely rude doesn't listen to me. I have written to Ingeus, to request a different advisor, the manager was also unreasonable and also very dismissive about my concerns this advisor shout at me. But instead of the manager listening to my concerns the manager was just has bad the manager belittled me, with the combination of all these traits, from this corporation I can't see how their can relate or help the unemployed. The manager behavior was unprofessional and extremely rude. Ingeus, received £7 million per year from the government this money would go into training and giving unemployed new skills so their can get real jobs. I seen several of these companies come and go in my area. I got qualifications I like to update my IT skills and get some work experience relevant the job, I am qualify for which is accounts, NOT any old job. We need to make our MP countable to us, we need outfits that are non profit based that really give service that will help the unemployed into employment. I am currently on a private part-time IT course paid by my family members, I am helping myself Ingeus is just getting into the way. It's about profit and NOT HELPING PEOPLE. How low can Ingeus go? Ingeus does NOT HELP THE UNEMPLOYED....:mad2:

Edited February 20, 2012 by Ingeusisrubbish