Help - Aggressive response from Northern Rock

[N#1N#2]

Tamadus/ Glenn UK

 

I originally intended to send this letter to the court

 

quote

 

'Dear Sirs,

 

It has been brought to my attention that in Judgement (claim numbers ?????? and ??????) in Northampton county courts where judgement was given against Northern Rock, they have also applied for a Set Aside using the same arguments of non-service from the Court. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

 

As to the defendants arguments that the defendants have real prospect of defending the case, there are identical cases where the defendant has been unsuccessful (I am currently aware of at least 1 case and I am seeking there permission to use there details) and settled out of court.

 

It is my belief that the Judge should exercise his discretion as in quote cases above and deny the request for a Set Aside in this case.

 

Or at least using the information included in this bundle to concur the original judgment'

 

But by all accounts not the way forward

 

Ok i take your advice and accept that the 'set aside' is granted will the court then automatically, reshedule to hear the case at a later date??

Or do i have to apply

 

 

 

what type of information would i then need to provide, as i may aswell start preparing this know.

 

I will also ring the MCOL helpline tomorrow for there advice.

 

many thanks

[Glenn UK]

Tamadus/ Glenn UK

 

I originally intended to send this letter to the court

 

quote

 

'Dear Sirs,

 

It has been brought to my attention that in Judgement (claim numbers 7QZ05545 and 6QZ97011) in Northampton county courts where judgement was given against Northern Rock, they have also applied for a Set Aside using the same arguments of non-service from the Court. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.This is what i was getting at, this is not evidence im afraid.

 

As to the defendants arguments that the defendants have real prospect of defending the case, there are identical cases where the defendant has been unsuccessful (I am currently aware of at least 1 case and I am seeking there permission to use there details) and settled out of court.Settling out of court has nothng to do with whether thier defence is good or bad, at least in law.

 

It is my belief that the Judge should exercise his discretion as in quote cases above and deny the request for a Set Aside in this case.If you are going to go n abuse of process then you need to look up mullen vs hackney and come up with a list of claims they have entered a defence, submitted AQ and then settled.

 

Or at least using the information included in this bundle to concur the original judgment'

 

But by all accounts not the way forward

 

Ok i take your advice and accept that the 'set aside' is granted will the court then automatically, reshedule to hear the case at a later date??i believe so

Or do i have to apply

 

what type of information would i then need to provide, as i may aswell start preparing this know.

 

I will also ring the MCOL helpline tomorrow for there advice.

 

many thanks

 

Im sorry if my posts appear harsh, i have made a prat of myself on here saying stupid things, im sure it will happen again. The worst that can happen is that ihave to say sorry.

 

If i did it in court it could cost me thousands, thats why i have been harsh, so please forgive me.

 

And no we dont give up, but we fight battles we stand a chance of wining, Courts generally prefer claims to be heard on their merits, so without the evidence to argue against the set aside then you have an uphill battle.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[gizmo111]

gizmo111

 

Will check the site for 'draft direction' unless you have the links

 

But great help

 

This was a tactic with Citi

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/50694-citycards-trying-every-trick-2.html#post502328

[N#1N#2]

all

 

Think i need to take a step back and get back to basics.

 

Possibly expected the forum and the good people on here to help me through with me doing little work WRONG

 

Glen taking you points onboard i am reading you thread and upto this point and this is possibly more relevant to were i want to be

 

Accept the set aside and prepare for the next stage

 

V’s

Abbey National PLC, Defendant

In The Southend County Court

 

Claim No xxxxxxxx

• May it please the court, I request that the Defendants claim in respect of the above case is struck out on the basis that the Defendant has no basis for its defence.

• I am aware that the Defendant has recently experienced a large number of claims for the return of charges unlawfully levied on customers accounts

• The defendant has repeatedly acknowledged claims, entered the same defence they entered in this claim, filed allocation questionnaires, attended case management and allocation hearings. (A sample list of 28 cases is attached for your information, See copy marked 1).

• However, the defendant has failed to attend court to defend a single claim to my knowledge and has repeatedly settled claims on the ‘steps’ of the court.

• Further the Defendant has been asked by way of a formal request pursuant to CPR 18 for clarification of any evidence it has to support its defence and it has failed to either acknowledge the request or supply any data (See copy attached, marked 2).

• The Defendant has at its disposal the absolute defence required to defend this claim in its entirety and yet at no time has it ever offered to prove what its costs are in respect of breaches of contract which it claims allows it to levy charges of the magnitude it has done in the claimant and other customers cases.

• In the event that the Court is minded to allow the defence then it is requested that the Defendant is put to standard disclosure pursuant to CPR 28.3(1)a.

• May I respectfully request that the court orders disclosure of:

• • the defendants costs in relation to the administration of breaches of contract on the part of the claimant; &
    
  • the defendant provides evidence of its pre-estimates prepared during the period the claimant held its account with the defendant; &
    
  • the defendant provides all minutes, letters, emails, faxes, records containing references to meetings, discussions or other investigations into the investigation by the Office of Fair Trade into credit card charges; &
    
  • the defendant provides all minutes, letters, emails, faxes, records containing references to meetings, discussions or other investigations relating to the introduction of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

• The Claimant first requested the return of unlawfully taken charges on the 4th August 2006 and wrote again on the 24th and 26th August 2006. Since the Defendant received these letters they have failed to enter into sincere negotiations or dialogue to settle the claim. I can see no merit in any further delays to attempt a settlement. I would respectfully suggest to the court that the Defendant has attempted to prevent claims being brought against it by every means possible including applications for stays. I believe that in the event that the Court sets a stay in place that this would materially benefit the Defendant at the detriment of the Claimant and justice. I therefore respectfully request this court that the claim is allowed to proceed as quickly as possible to its natural conclusion

 

Will continue on reading

[Glenn UK]

This is what i actually submitted in support of my application to strike abbeys defence out, I withdrew it for reasons i have posted,

 

1) The Claimant submitted a claim in respect of the return of unlawfully imposed bank charges issued 15th September 2006 (Copy Attached marked 1). The key issue particularised in the claim is that the Claimant contends that the charges imposed by the bank exceed the cost of administering the account due to the breaches in question.

 

2) It is the Claimants view that the submitted defence (Copy attached marked 2) is based primarily on denial and shows no legal basis or evidence for defending the claim, the Claimant contends that:

 

a. Item 1 – Is a simple denial of the Claim;

b. Item 2 – Is informative only;

c. Item 3 and sub clauses – Is informative only;

d. Item 4 – Is informative only;

e. Item 5 – Is informative only;

f. Item 6 – Is informative only;

g. Item 7 – Is a simple denial;

h. Item 8 – Is a denial without supporting evidence or the promise of the production of supporting evidence;

i. Item 9 – Is a simple denial;

j. Item 10 – Is a simple denial;

k. Item 11 – Is a request for evidence which the defendant has at its disposal;

l. Item 12 – The Claimant contends in the Particulars of Claim that the Defendant has both concealed the nature of its charges and the Claimant paid the charges in the mistaken belief that the charges were lawful. Reliance on the Limitations Act 1980, Section 5, fails to address either of these issues.

m. Item 13 – Is a simple denial.

 

 

3) The Defendants representative, DLA Piper UK LLP, acknowledged the claim and filed

a defence, issued on 18th October 2006.

 

4) The Claimant noted that there were errors of fact in the submitted defence as follows:

 

i) Item 2 - The defence states the Claimant ' has a current bank account with the

Defendant '. For clarification the Claimant settled the outstanding balance and the

Defendant entered a default on the Claimants Credit file. The Claimant is aware

that the default registered with Experian that the status history is indicated as

‘status 8’ (See Copy Attached marked 3). By reference to Experians booklet ‘Your

credit report explained’ (Copy attached marked 4) Status 8 confirms that ‘The

lender has closed your account’.

 

ii) Item 5 - The Defendant states that ' Any overdraft facility was (and is) subject to

conditions. '. Since the Claimant does not have a bank account with the Defendant

there is no overdraft facility in force.

 

 

iii) Item 7 The Defendant states that '...... the Defendant denies that the amount

£4999.99, or any amount..... ' . This value bears no relationship to the amount

claimed in the Particulars Of Claim submitted by the Claimant.

 

5) The Claimant wrote to the Defendants representative highlighting the errors in the

Defence on the 15th October 2006 (Copy Attached marked 5).

 

6) Following receipt of the notice that the Defendant intended to defend the claim, the

Claimant served on the Defendant a request pursuant to CPR 18 for further information

and clarification of matters relating to the Defence (Copy Attached marked 6). The

request was delivered on the 19/10/06.

 

7) The Defendant or their representative failed to acknowledge or respond to the original

CPR 18 request . The Claimant sent a reminder to the Defendants representative on

the 27th November 2006 (Copy Attached marked 7) but the Defendant has failed to

acknowledge, or respond to the request.

 

8) The Court instructed both parties to complete and return an Allocation Questionnaire

by the 6th November 2006. The Defendant failed to return the questionnaire and the

Court issued an order instructing the Defendant to file their Allocation Questionnaire

by the 30th November 2006.

 

9) Despite the Defendant being originally represented by DLA Piper UK LLP, the

Defendant filed the Allocation Questionnaire themselves.

 

10) The Claimant has received no formal notification that the Defendant had changed their legal representative. The Claimant wrote directly to DLA Piper UK LLP, to enquire as to whether they were acting on behalf of the Defendant.

 

11) The Claimant received a response from DLA Piper informing the Claimant that they no longer act for the Defendant.

 

12) The Claimant has received no confirmation from the Defendant whether they are now representing themselves or whether they have engaged new legal representation.

 

Hope tis helps, I'm not saying its right/perfect but IMHO this is the kind of thing you needed.

 

Glenn

[gizmo111]

The link I gave you above was approved by BF. They will obvioulsy not agree to this but it shows you have tried. Chances of you getting set aside refused 5-15% - chances of you you getting draft directions approved 80-90%.

 

I am not sure that you can ask for the defence to be struck out yet as they haven't submitted it and you are just assuming that it will be the same as the rest.

[tamadus]

Bj,

 

sorry if we do seem harsh at times, but this really is a self help site. when it comes down to it none of us are solicitors and we are all trying to gain enough knowledge to represent ourselves in a court. NOBODY else can do that for us if any of the banks actually appear in court. Consequently the only way they wont steamroller over us all is if we do the homework.

 

If it comes to it, you and you alone have to attend that court and make your case. You HAVE GOT to know exactly what that case is and speak out. We can only offer advise (good or bad) based on our own experiences, we cannot do the real work for you.

 

Glenn, myself and several others could easily do the work for you but you gain very little if we can't be there to argue the case in court for you. I dont hold insurance for losing court cases so if we did argue it and lost we could lose a fortune ourselves.

 

It really isnt worth fighting the set aside the court and Judges dont like default judgements, if the set aside is granted a hearing date will be set and that's when you have the chance to show a Judge the merits of your claim, just make sure you rehearse your arguments in advance and your ready to counter any arguments the defendant makes.

[Glenn UK]

Gizmo

 

I wasnt suggesting that he should apply for the defence to be struck out, only using it as an example of the kind of info/appraoch maybe as to the kind of arguments that could be made when arguing against a set aside, since its in effect the same issues.

 

Just thought id clarify in case anyone thought otherwise.

 

Glenn

[gizmo111]

Gizmo

 

I wasnt suggesting that he should apply for the defence to be struck out, only using it as an example of the kind of info/appraoch maybe as to the kind of arguments that could be made when arguing against a set aside, since its in effect the same issues.

 

Just thought id clarify in case anyone thought otherwise.

 

Glenn

 

Hi Glen,

 

Didn't think you had suggested the defence be struck out. It's late and I am prob not making myself very clear either - off to bed I think.

 

Because the courts will nearly always agree to a set aside default judgement and the claim will only be delayed I advise people not to be too hasty too hit that judgement button, but when it gets to this stage then a little bit of bargaining can go in the claimants favour - getting the directeions agreed.

 

Oh and congratulations on the birth of your son Been meaning to catch up with you all day.

[Glenn UK]

Thanks giz,

 

i was told by my wife earlier that perhaps i dont make myself clear so it happens to all of us.

 

And thanks for your good wishes.

 

Cheers

 

Glenn

[N#1N#2]

Thanks for the guidance, yes I appreciate that all this support is in good faith only and i need to prepare myself.

 

Just did not understand the 'set aside' bit and the next steps, as the FAQ really only goes upto submitting your cliam.

 

I will contact the Northern Rock and agree to the set aside and wait for the next steps.

I will speak to the court this morning and get there approach also and do a lot more reading.

 

many thanks

[paulif]

well my thread is well and truely hijacked

still there is lots of stuff in here should my case actually go to court

(bj please go back and remove our case references from that post - i dont think its a good idea to have case references in public forum that the bank can read)

 

as for my case i am still waiting to hear from the court re the set aside

i emailed them yesterday to ask them what i should do and i am still waiting to hear.

[tamadus]

as long as your both back on target to fight the battles you need to fight and achieve what you set out to do

 

Back to another thread where somebody has already filled in an N! for a DPA claim and the 40 days isnt even up yet

 

Just shout if you need any help

[paulif]

after getting a fairly vanilla response from MC help desk and having still heard nothing from the court i have just now requested a warrant of execution

 

amazingly even though my bank account is in credit currently for several thousand pounds my card was declined when i tried to use in on the MCOL site. i had to use a credit card instead

 

i am a bit ****ed off about this

 

will keep you informed

[N#1N#2]

PaulIf

 

I have ammended the post with respect to the clim details.

 

I have spoke to the MCOL today about the banking asling for the 'set aside'. standard practice they say. Bit of re assurance.

therefore tomorrow will contact the banl and agree to the 'set aside' and wait for the court for direction.

will speak to my local courts tomorrow about the next step guidance only so that i can begin to prepare for the next step.

[N#1N#2]

Tamadus

 

just for clarification i gather the process is

1. set aside granted
   
2. courts ask for the defendant to submit dfence deatils with 14 days
   
3. then I presume they ask me for deatils to support my cliam????
   
4. hearing to review both cases??

Does this sound correct

[N#1N#2]

all

 

E mail from Northern rock regards set aside,

The courts agree that this is the way forward , but the content can you help and confirm this is OK

 

 

CONSENT ORDER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Before District Judge

 

BY CONSENT of the parties it is ordered that :

 

 

 

1. The Default Judgment entered on 19 December 2006 be set aside forthwith;

 

2. The Defendant do file and serve the defence accompanying the Defendant’s application to set aside Judgment in Default filed on 5 January 2007 within 7 days from the date of this order;

 

3. There be no order as to costs.

 

 

 

Dated this day of February 2007.

 

 

 

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[tamadus]

Oh very nice , They are only asking for 7 days to file their defence

 

It looks fine ot me Bj

[paulif]

after getting a fairly vanilla response from MC help desk and having still heard nothing from the court i have just now requested a warrant of execution

 

amazingly even though my bank account is in credit currently for several thousand pounds my card was declined when i tried to use in on the MCOL site. i had to use a credit card instead

 

i am a bit ****ed off about this

 

will keep you informed

 

this is what i get when i log in and check status on MCOL

 

"Your warrant request has been accepted. The warrant has now been sent to the bailiff at the appropriate court for action."

 

does this mean i have won?

can the bank apply to have this set aside?

[N#1N#2]

PaulIf

 

did you get a frosty response when you rang the MCOL helpline??

 

I thought they would be able to advice you of the options to the cliamant.

they have always been very useful for me

 

 

Check the FAQ's in the MCOL website you might get the answer there.

I have not the experience at this stage.

 

I am agreeing the set aside with the NR and await there response in seven days.

I thougth they may have left that to the courts to decide??

[paulif]

no they were not frosty

they just said that they cant give me legal advice

and if i havent heard from the court and MCOL lets me request a warrant then i can do so

and i so i did

and now in go the bailiffs

oh happy days

[N#1N#2]

good luck

 

Keep me informed of your progress and when you expect the Bailiff's to go in

 

this will be interesting how will they report this??

 

Also the news people are lookign for headlines like?? front bage

[thehomee]

Hello Paulif and BJberry. I have got my own thread regarding NR, and i need the answer to 2 questions, but nobody seems to be able to help me. Sorry to hijack your thread, but do either of you know the answer to the following 2 questions;

1) NR have not defended my MCOL claim within the seven days, which ran out on 4th Feb. Do I now go for judgement by default? If I do and then they apply for and are granted a set-aside, does that mean that I have to attend court in person?

2) If they apply for and are granted a set-aside, are there any more likely costs apart from the standard court fee I have already paid?

Hope you can help.

Thanks

[N#1N#2]

thehomee

 

Hello Paulif and BJberry. I have got my own thread regarding NR, and i need the answer to 2 questions, but nobody seems to be able to help me. Sorry to hijack your thread, but do either of you know the answer to the following 2 questions;

1) NR have not defended my MCOL claim within the seven days, which ran out on 4th Feb. Do I now go for judgement by default? If I do and then they apply for and are granted a set-aside, does that mean that I have to attend court in person?

2) If they apply for and are granted a set-aside, are there any more likely costs apart from the standard court fee I have already paid?

Hope you can help.

Thanks

 

I will try and answer your questions but please seak further advice as i learning slowly as i go along also.

 

Q1. I have read , wait a further seven days after the the final date before you apply fore the default. then contact the bank, i will try and find the thread that I read this on. i cannot answer the second part of the question as this is the stage i am at, but by all accounts this will not happen but you must prepare to attend??

Q2 I understand there are no further costs which you are liable for, the NR pay for the set aside and a presume any costs after that?? but not 100% certian

 

Sorry if this does not help

 

link me to your original thread

[thehomee]

Hi bjberry and thanks for that - it is very helpful.Here is the link to my original thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/53795-thehomee-northern-rock-erc.html (hope I've done that right!)