Glenn vs Co-OP

[Glenn UK]

Hi all

 

new to the site and have started to send out SARs to various organisation but realised I used to have a CO-OP CC but cant remeber any of the acutal details, other than like my other CCs i suspect i racked up quite a few charges.

 

So apart from writing to them giving them sufficent details to identify me along with a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), is there any other way that I can get account details before i make the SAR request?

 

I would rather send the SAR with some firm information before sending the if theres anyway to do this?

 

Any thoughts welcome.

 

Glenn

 

Ps I have inlcuded in my draft SAR, full name, age, place of birth, previous home addresses for the past ten years or so.

[c_allen]

give them a ring and try to blag the account no out of them i did this by saying i run a business and tax man after me for previous years so need details:)

[Glenn UK]

Bit of an update did as suggested by C Allen, I didnt get the account number as it is closed and no longer sits on their system, however, they did confirm that address they hold on file for me.

 

So im going to send a SAR with my relevant information on it and see what comes back..

 

Glenn

 

PS C Allen thanks for the tip at least I now have an idea when the account was open/closed.

[Glenn UK]

Thanks to C Allen I sent of the SAr and today recieved an acknowledgement confirmgnt they were processing it and it would be with me within 40 days.

 

Another step closer.

[Glenn UK]

They did say it would be 40 days from their letter, i dont think so!!

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I thank you for your letter dated 10th August 2006 acknowledging my Subject Access request.

For clarification it appears there is a typographical error in your letter.

You will know the 40 day time period for compliance with a subject access request under the Data Protection Act begins when the request is served upon yourselves.

I therefore wish to confirm, for the avoidance of doubt and to prevent any embarrassment in the event that there is a delay in providing the relevant data, that in fact you have a further 26 days since I believe that you received my SAR on the 29th July 2006.

I therefore request that you comply with the request and send all of the relevant data for the period during which I held my account with your organization.

[Glenn UK]

Little update

 

Ive sent them final LBA for non com[laince with DPA they owe me some statements and i want them.

 

GLenn

[Glenn UK]

They still havent fully complied so im filing a Sec 7 claim and heres my particualrs of claim for comment.

 

1. The Claimant had a credit card account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the

Defendant which was open for a number of years and was closed on or around November 2001.

 

2. The Claimant wrote to the Defendant and made a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988 on the 25th July 2006 requesting a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with the Defendant. The maximum statutory fee of £10.00 was enclosed in the form of a cheque drawn in favour of the Defendant (Cashed 9th August 2006).

 

3. The Defendant supplied partial account data for the period August 2000 - November 2001. However, the intial statement indicates an opening balance.

 

4. Despite supplementary written requests to the Defendant requesting confirmation of the transactions and charges on the whole of the Account history, the defendant has alleged it does not hold data for more than 6 years and refuses to supply the data it holds on the Claimant.

 

5. In the data the defendant supplied to the Claimant, there are notes relating to account activity prior to the transaction and charges activity.

 

The Claimant contends that :

 

a. The Defendant holds data relevant to the Claimant which it has failed to provide under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988.

 

b. The defendant has tried to mislead the Claimant by referring to statutory obligations to store data which are minimum periods and do not preclude the Defendant holding such Data for periods beyond the minimum.

 

Accordingly the Claimant request that:

 

i. The court orders that all data held by the Defendant on a relevant filing system is supplied to the Claimant forthwith.

[JonCris]

They still havent fully complied so im filing a Sec 7 claim and heres my particualrs of claim for comment.

 

My comments are in bold

 

1. The Claimant, a litigant in person, (might as well let the court know as to your status asap) had a credit card account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the Defendant which was open for a number of years and was closed on or around November 2001.

 

2. The Claimant wrote to the Defendant (copies enclosed and marked no.*) and made a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988 on the 25th July 2006 requesting a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with the Defendant. The maximum statutory fee of £10.00 was enclosed in the form of a cheque no ****** drawn in favour of the Defendant (Cashed 9th August 2006 as shown in the enclosed proof of payment and marked as no*

 

3. The Defendant supplied partial account data for the period August 2000 - November 2001. However, as shown in the enclosed copy and marked as no. the intial statement indicates an opening balance.

 

4. Despite supplementary written requests to the Defendant requesting confirmation of the transactions and charges on the whole of the Account history, the defendant has alleged in their letter of (date) and marked as no. that it does not hold data for more than 6 years and refuses to supply the data it holds on the Claimant.

 

5. In the data the defendant supplied to the Claimant, there are notes relating to account activity prior to the transaction and charges activity. (copies enclosed and marked as no. *)

 

The Claimant contends that :

 

a. The Defendant holds data relevant to the Claimant which it has failed to provide under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1998.

 

b. The defendant has tried to mislead the Claimant by referring to statutory obligations to store data which are minimum periods and do not preclude the Defendant holding such Data for periods beyond the minimum.

 

Accordingly the Claimant request that:

 

i. That there is no statutory data retention period as claimed by the defendant and that the Court orders that all data held by the Defendant (delete) on a relevant filing system is supplied to the Claimant forthwith or give reasons to the court why it is not able to supply such data

(To deny they hold such data will involve knowingly misleading the court)

[Glenn UK]

Right finally got round to issuing the claim at court yesterday, see whaty that turns up.

 

Who bets they have the dat and bets they dont?

 

Glenn

[Guest willowb]

Thanks for the link to your thread Glenn. I'm going to copy, paste and obviously personalise your particulars of claim to suit my claim if that's ok with you.

 

Wxx

[Glenn UK]

Willow

 

I will post what i actually sent and just to update all, i have had the fee and my fiver damages paid by the defendant and asked the court for a stay to allow them time to comply.

 

Ill post all info shortly.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

My POC as entered on the N1

 

1. The Claimant had a credit card account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the

Defendant which was open for a number of years and was closed on or around November 2001.

 

2. The Claimant wrote to the Defendant and made a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988 on the 25th July 2006 requesting a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with the Defendant. The maximum statutory fee of £10.00 was enclosed in the form of a cheque drawn in favour of the Defendant (Cashed 9th August 2006).

 

3. The Defendant supplied partial account data for the period August 2000 - November 2001. However, the initial statement indicates an opening balance.

 

4. Despite supplementary written requests to the Defendant requesting confirmation of the transactions and charges on the whole of the Account history, the defendant has alleged it does not hold data for more than 6 years and refuses to supply the data it holds on the Claimant.

 

5. In the data the defendant supplied to the Claimant, there are notes relating to account activity prior to the transaction and charges activity.

 

The Claimant contends that :

 

a. The Defendant holds data relevant to the Claimant which it has failed to provide under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988.

 

b. The defendant has tried to mislead the Claimant by referring to statutory obligations to store data which are minimum periods and do not preclude the Defendant holding such Data for periods beyond the minimum.

 

Accordingly the Claimant requests that:

 

i. The court orders that all data held by the Defendant on a relevant filing system is supplied to the Claimant forthwith.

 

ii. The claimant is awarded his costs for bringing this matter before the courts.

 

 

 

Their response was to send some more info, it didn't have any reference and may just be a coincidence although bearing in mind they told me they didn't have any more data it seems unlikely and so i presumed its a response to my claim.

 

My response - Dear Co-op must try harder!!

 

25th October 2006

 

Dear Mr. Kerns

Re : Mr. Glenn Lewis Horton – v – The Co-operative Bank p.l.c

Claim Number : 6BQ04992

Basildon County Court

 

 

 

Further to my recent letter regarding my proposal for a stay during the Defendants investigations, I can confirm some further information, transactional data from July 1997 – July 2000 has been supplied.

 

However, the earliest statement shows an opening balance indicating that the account was operational before this time.

 

I require the defendant to supply all of the data they hold in respect of this account or to enter into court a statement as to why they cannot provide such data.

 

It is worth noting that this information was accompanied by a letter stating that ‘This completes all the transactional information we hold for you and to which you are entitled’.

 

I would point out that I wrote to the Defendant on the 15th September 2006 and received the response that ‘The Bank are only obliged to retain information for a period of 6 years.’ And that ‘After checking your records, I can confirm that any notes held by the bank were included…’

 

You will note that the Defendant has now supplied me with data covering a period from July 1997 to the close of the account in November 2001, data which is significantly over six years old and some of which is over 9 years old.

 

This is my final request for all of my data or a formal statement to be lodged with the court as to why my data cannot be provided.

 

I have tried to be reasonable with my request to the court for a stay pending the Defendant’s investigations, however, I find the behaviour of the Defendant distasteful in the extreme.

 

If the opportunity arises I will urge the Court to lift the stay and proceed with the case and let the court decide whether the response of the Co-operative Bank is reasonable and lawful.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr Glenn Horton

 

 

Cc Basildon County Court

[Glenn UK]

Well its moved on a bit since then, I wrote to the court telling them about the basty Co-op and today got a stay isntructing us to settle the argument so will be sending this tomorrow

 

P.W.Kerns

19th Floor

CISBuilding

Miller Street

Manchester

M60 0AL

 

 

9th November 2006

 

 

Dear Mr. Kerns

 

Re : Mr. Glenn Lewis Horton – v – The Co-operative Bank p.l.c

Claim Number : 6BQ04992

Basildon County Court

 

I have today received an Order from the Court for a stay pending the resolution of this claim until the 6th December 2006 (Copy attached).

 

I would ask that the Defendant provides a sworn statement as to the position with regards to my data.

 

It would be useful to confirm the following in the sworn statement

 

i) When the account was opened; and

ii) If they hold data but I am not entitled to it and if so by what reason, or

iii) If they do not hold data and it has been destroyed, when and why it was destroyed.

 

Upon receipt of the statement confirming the status of the data, I will consider the matter closed and will inform the court accordingly.

 

May I respectfully suggest that the Defendant provides the sworn statement before the 6th December 2006 to avoid further inconvenience and expense of the Court

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

Mr Glenn Horton

 

 

Cc Basildon County Court

 

Lets hope the Co-op sees the lgiht and either coughs up or provides the sworn statement.

 

Glenn

[Glenn UK]

Hi all

 

Well my claim for non-complaince against the Co-op has now been finalised after a bit of tooing and fro'ing.

 

As you will know I had submitted a claim for non-complaince and asked for the data or a statemtn setting out why they couldnt supply that data.

 

After telling me they did not have to hold data for more than six years and that if they did it had been supplied, they provided further data which was over 9 years old after i submitted the claim.

 

Then the wrangling started, i didnt believe they had provided the data and asked for a statment to be lodged in court. They basically refused and insisted they had provided the data.

 

Today i had a hearing to determine the outcome. I received this morning a letter from the defendant with a witness statement they had submitted to the court stating they had provided all of my data.

 

They had sent the letter on the 15th and the court received their copy yesterday. in truth i wasnt entirely happy with the wording, but the judge suggested that they had complied and essentially said that unless i had any evidence to the contrary he felt that the claim had been satisfied.

 

I was cacking it to be honest, its the first time i have had to go to court to debate anything of this nature, even though i have spoken in court as an epxert on many occiasions, its kinda different when you have to set out arguments and such like, or at least to be prepared to do so.

 

The judge was pretty cool, he was polite, not condescending at all and recognised that the claim was valid and that i had done some research.

 

He did point out that the ICO could and perhaps should deal with such claims through their complaints procedure, and i did discuss the back log of complaints i knew they had at the moment.

 

I have set out a revised POC which if others are going to go the same route i would recommend assuming that ypu take the responsibligty for tghier use but it might make your claims easier and less drawn out than mine.

 

1. The Claimant had a credit card/bank account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the

Defendant which was open for a number of years and was closed on or around month year.

 

2. The Claimant wrote to the Defendant and made a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988 on the xx/xx/xx requesting a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with the Defendant. The maximum statutory fee of £10.00 was enclosed in the form of a cheque drawn in favour of the Defendant

 

3. The Defendant supplied partial account data for the period xx/xx/xx- xx/xx/xx. However, the initial statement indicates an opening balance. Amend as necessary

 

4. Despite supplementary written requests to the Defendant requesting confirmation of the transactions and charges on the whole of the Account history, the defendant has alleged it does not hold data for more than 6 years and refuses to supply the data it holds on the Claimant.

 

5. In the data the defendant supplied to the Claimant, there are notes relating to account activity prior to the transaction and charges activity.

 

The Claimant contends that :

 

a. The Defendant holds data relevant to the Claimant which it has failed to provide under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988.

 

b. The defendant has tried to mislead the Claimant by referring to statutory obligations to store data which are minimum periods and do not preclude the Defendant holding such Data for periods beyond the minimum.

 

Accordingly the Claimant requests that:

 

i. The court orders that all data held by the Defendant on a relevant filing system is supplied to the Claimant forthwith; or

ii) provide a statment setting out the following information:

ii. ) When the account was opened; and

ii) If they hold data but I am not entitled to it and if so by what reason, or

iii) If they do not hold data and it has been destroyed, when and why it was destroyed.

ii. The claimant is awarded his costs for bringing this matter before the courts

[Glenn UK]

Hi all

 

Well my claim for non-compliance against the Co-op has now been finalised after a bit of tooing and fro'ing.

 

As you will know I had submitted a claim for non-compliance and asked for the data or a statement setting out why they couldn't supply that data.

 

After telling me they did not have to hold data for more than six years and that if they did it had been supplied, they provided further data which was over 9 years old after i submitted the claim.

 

Then the wrangling started, i didn't believe they had provided the data and asked for a statement to be lodged in court. They basically refused and insisted they had provided the data.

 

Today i had a hearing to determine the outcome. I received this morning a letter from the defendant with a witness statement they had submitted to the court stating they had provided all of my data.

 

They had sent the letter on the 15th and the court received their copy yesterday. in truth i wasn't entirely happy with the wording, but the judge suggested that they had complied and essentially said that unless i had any evidence to the contrary he felt that the claim had been satisfied.

 

I was cacking it to be honest, its the first time i have had to go to court to debate anything of this nature, even though i have spoken in court as an expert on many occasions, its kinda different when you have to set out arguments and such like, or at least to be prepared to do so.

 

The judge was pretty cool, he was polite, not condescending at all and recognised that the claim was valid and that i had done some research.

 

He did point out that the Information Commissioners Office could and perhaps should deal with such claims through their complaints procedure, and i did discuss the back log of complaints i knew they had at the moment.

 

I have set out a revised POC which if others are going to go the same route i would recommend assuming that you take the responsibility for its use but it might make your claims easier and less drawn out than mine.

 

1. The Claimant had a credit card/bank account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the

Defendant which was open for a number of years and was closed on or around month year.

 

2. The Claimant wrote to the Defendant and made a Subject Access Request under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988 on the xx/xx/xx requesting a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with the Defendant. The maximum statutory fee of £10.00 was enclosed in the form of a cheque drawn in favour of the Defendant

 

3. The Defendant supplied partial account data for the period xx/xx/xx- xx/xx/xx. However, the initial statement indicates an opening balance. Amend as necessary

 

4. Despite supplementary written requests to the Defendant requesting confirmation of the transactions and charges on the whole of the Account history, the defendant has alleged it does not hold data for more than 6 years and refuses to supply the data it holds on the Claimant.

 

5. In the data the defendant supplied to the Claimant, there are notes relating to account activity prior to the transaction and charges activity.

 

The Claimant contends that :

 

a. The Defendant holds data relevant to the Claimant which it has failed to provide under Section 7 of the Data protection Act 1988.

 

b. The defendant has tried to mislead the Claimant by referring to statutory obligations to store data which are minimum periods and do not preclude the Defendant holding such Data for periods beyond the minimum.

 

Accordingly the Claimant requests that:

 

i. The court orders that all data held by the Defendant on a relevant filing system is supplied to the Claimant forthwith; or

ii. Provide a statement setting out the following information:

a)When the account was opened; and

b) If they hold data but I am not entitled to it and if so by what reason, or

c) If they do not hold data and it has been destroyed, when and why it was

destroyed.

iii. The claimant is awarded his costs for bringing this matter before the courts

 

 

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

have you a post detailing your succes with Co-Op as this post seems to just detail your complaint with them regards non-compliance.

 

I've received Co_op statements today and now need to consider claiming C.I. and charges beyond 6 years against Co-Op.

 

You post would be SOOO helpful as a guide.

 

Many thanks,

 

richwhit1

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

sorry if its not clear as yet i have claimed my charges back, the non-compliance hearing was only recent and they provided the statement that they had complied a day or so before the hearing.

 

Now i will issue an N1 to reclaim the charges, which should be fun as there aren't many of them and they're older than six years.

 

If you have any questions you think i can help you with give me a link to your thread and ill help if i can.

 

I do have two other claims on the go, one with abbey ongoing, and one with b/card I'm waiting for the money and there is all my details for claiming in there.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

I see - sorry Glenn I misunderstood your thread.

 

I've received Co-Op Credit card statements today for the last 6 years and have written back to them requesting ALL statements which go back 8 years so I'll see how I get on in obtaining these.

 

This is my first claim against a credit card and need to research the best approach but am I correct in thinking we can claim C.I against them??? ( I know that you successfully claimed with C.I from MBNA).

 

I'm bewildered by the info I've got so far on the statements as whilst charges are clear I haven't got a clue about interest that we can claim back as we do for bank accounts.

 

Any advices at this early stage.

 

Your help as ever v.much appreciated.

 

rich

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

1st off yes you can claim the CI, second interest can be a bit confusing.

 

If you use one of the spreadsheets for calcualting CI interest though i think this is the best way to deal with it.

 

As long as you use the right spreadsheet and input the data all will be well, i know i used Mindzais spreadsheet for my claims but Vampiresses are fine to.

 

there is support for both options so please have a look at the spreadsheets and see how you get on.

 

HTH

 

glenn

[richwhit1]

Thanks Glenn - I'll have a go at using Mindzais spreadsheet this evening and no doubt shout for your help once I get stuck!!

 

Just out of interest are you aware of any cases where Co-Op have settled with C.I. or is this still uncharted territory??

 

rich

[Glenn UK]

Nope i am not aware, but then again i havent spent hardly any time on the co-op threads because my time has been takenup by my abbey and b'card claims.

 

ill know soon enough though.

 

glenn

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

Could you advise whether your claiming for Co-op bank account or credit card??

 

I'm struggling to find many threads regarding Co-Op credit card and I need some advice so if you were claiming for credit card maybe we could help each other for our forthcoming claims??

 

richwhit

[Glenn UK]

credit card, whats your problem?

 

 

Glenn

[richwhit1]

Hi Glenn,

 

Firstly, i understand you've become a father - congratulations mate and no doubt you'll be spending less time on here now or posting threads at 4.00am in the morning between bottle feeds!!

 

I therefore feel a little guilty in again asking for your advice but having started numerous claims against my current accounts I'm now proceeding against credit cards.

 

I know you had 100% success against MBNA in claiming back all charges plus Contractual Interest thus my reason for asking you for advice before anyone else.

 

My question is, I've got all of my statements from Co-Op (who I know you are claiming against also) but really am unsure as to what spreadsheet I should be using. Could you possibly advise which spreadsheet you have used to calculate your CI for Credit Cards aginst MBNA and for your Co-Op claim.

 

I'm happy filling the spreadsheets out but am just unsure as to which I should be using. Without take the p also would you have a link to the spready you've used??

 

I understand if you may be tied up with other matters of your own but if you could reply to this post I'd be most appreciative.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

richwhit

[Glenn UK]

Rich

 

No problems re the spreasheet i used the one prepared by mindzai for current accounts!!

 

I think in credit card terms it probably under estimates.

 

So im not the best person to ask, try Bill-K in the contractual interest he knows vamps sheet almost as well as vamps i think.

 

HTH

 

Glenn