UKPC parking invoice - tesco Faraday retail park,Coatbank Street, Coatbridge. ML5 3SQ scotland

[r mac]

Hello all, I'm new to the site. Read through this particular thread last night, having got back from a great night of bowling only to find a white note under my windscreen wiper. Turns out I'd parked in a disabled space and should be expecting a fine.

 

Now, on arriving to the car park and looking for a space I stopped at one and I asked out aloud if the space was disabled as it was close to the front door of the nearby cinema. The two other people in the car both said that it didn't look like it was. So we parked.

 

Fast forward to coming out and we've now seen the note. I pull the car back and there is a faded disabled logo on paviers underneath where the car was but it's in shadow (as it was when I parked) and doesn't show like the car park spacing lines throughout the rest of the car park. So I've taken photos.

 

Get back in the car and read the note again and the person who wrote it has got the number plate right but the make of the car wrong.

 

Now I was perfectly fine with paying a fine to start with, it was an honest mistake but I was in the wrong and wouldn't dream of parking in a disabled place for any reason.

 

But two questions:

 

i. Is it worth contesting the fine as I couldn't see that it was a disabled space? Especially as I have photos that demonstrate this.

 

ii. Would it make any bearing that the make of the car was wrong on the notice?

 

What makes it worse still is that the car was a courtesy one from my dealer, not my own. So the fine notice will go to them.

[Barnsley Boy]

r mac.

 

You say you've read through this thread. If so you will understand that you've not received a "fine" at all, merely an invoice which you dispute.

 

Normal advice is to either ignore correspondence from UKPC or use Bernie's excellent template letters - see "stickys" at the top of this forum. The complication is that UKPC will get the registration details from DLVA and will contact the dealer. There is a risk that the dealer will simply pay and look to recover from you.

 

It is important that you contact the dealer, inform them that the notice is not in any way official, they have no liability, any contract would be with the driver, that you will not pay under any circumstances.

 

The dealer can then do one of two things. Either write back to UKPC saying the car was driven by a customer, details can not be forwarded for data protection reasons or he could shop you. Either way is better than simply paying these [problematic].

 

Read and study the "sticky" - Private Parking Companies. This demonstrates the difference between private and council tickets.

 

To answer your 2nd question, it does not make any difference that the ticket has got the wring colour and / or make of car. It is not in any sense an official document, it has no legal status whatsoever in any event.

[SMARTIES1]

Hi everybody, love this site. Got back from work today and received a charge certificate from UKPC as my car was parked in a free B&Q car park for 45 minutes. The car was parked legally, in a bay and within specified times, so was surprised to received the fine. £45 if I pay within 14 days £90 subsequently. No notification was placed on the car at the time. No time has been mentioned, just a photograph of the back of my car.

 

I have no intention of paying but would appreciate some advice on dealing within this initially. Some suggestions say ignore totally, while others recommend engaging with UKPC. Should I write to them or B&Q. Advice appreciated.

[Grumpy b'Stard]

Lots of excellent advice on this forum, check out the ‘stickys’ at the top.

I suggest you don’t ignore the ticket, if it did go all the way to court (most unlikely) you would be in a weaker position. Do not ring (expensive) or e-mail them (no proof of receipt), put everything in writing.

Write a civil, to the point letter and ask them the questions i.e. How did they get your address and proof of time scale etc. Don’t forget, they are accusing and therefore it’s their responsibility to provide evidence, which they don’t like doing (or can’t).Do not admit or deny who was driving, that way there is no incrimination. When they reply with the standard letter, be civil, thank them for their correspondence but re-ask them for the details of proof which they will have undoubtedly left out, their next letter is usually the same nonsense, then you civilly explain to them that until your receive the information you asked for you will cease correspondence with them.

They then pass it to a collecting agency who will send a threatener, just say you are surprised to receive their letter as the demand is in dispute and refer them back to the ticket issuers.

Now the fun will start with the collecting agency, letters will arrive threatening all sorts. Just remember this, they cannot make any demand for money or goods except with a county court judgement, they cannot enter your home, if they make threats, in law, it is harassment, they are not bailiffs, a bailiff will only call if you fail to pay a ccj. It will never get to court, if it does they have probably refused to supply your very ‘civil’ demand for proof etc.etc. and there will be no case to answer. They like to make money not spend it !!

Keep copies of all the letters you send and keep all of theirs and the envelopes they come in, it’s been known that a collection agency will date a letter 14 days before you receive it so as to claim additional fees.

Be strong, don’t doubt yourself, you have this forum behind you.

[Barnsley Boy]

Hi everybody, love this site. Got back from work today and received a charge certificate from UKPC as my car was parked in a free B&Q car park for 45 minutes. The car was parked legally, in a bay and within specified times, so was surprised to received the fine. £45 if I pay within 14 days £90 subsequently. No notification was placed on the car at the time. No time has been mentioned, just a photograph of the back of my car.

 

I have no intention of paying but would appreciate some advice on dealing within this initially. Some suggestions say ignore totally, while others recommend engaging with UKPC. Should I write to them or B&Q. Advice appreciated.

 

I'd certainly wait for them to contact you, don't initiate the correspondance. It costs them £2.50 to obtain registered keeper details from DVLA. Let them incur this cost. After that it really is really is your call whether to ignore or not. Using Bernie's templates is certainly not difficult and, in the highly unlikely event of being taken to court, would do no harm to your defence whatsoever.

[SMARTIES1]

thanks for the response. I have written a letter to UKPC, Bernie's template 1, and sent by recorded delivery and I have also sent a snotagram to B&Q. Watch this space ........

[todd58]

got my invoice today from ukpc the 1st of many no doubt well here goes im going to use bernies template and see what happens

[Proton]

Hi

 

I have recieved a parking ticket from UKPC and I was not driving the car at the time. I have looked through the excellent template letters posted by Bernie the Bolt (many thanks) and I have a question.

 

At one stage Bernie says that if they allege that you were the driver or that you have to name the driver to say:

 

If your allegation is that I was the driver then please produce evidence of this to substantiate your claim. I have to advise you that the driver could have been any one of a number of people and I keep no records of who has driven the car on any given day.

 

I was not the driver, but the problem is, there is only one other person who can drive my vehicle, and that is my wife. So I can't honestly claim to not know who the driver was. Can anyone suggest a suitable wording, or does this mean I had better pay up?

 

Thanks...

 

Proton

[Barnsley Boy]

Hi

 

I have recieved a parking ticket from UKPC and I was not driving the car at the time. I have looked through the excellent template letters posted by Bernie the Bolt (many thanks) and I have a question.

 

At one stage Bernie says that if they allege that you were the driver or that you have to name the driver to say:

 

 

 

I was not the driver, but the problem is, there is only one other person who can drive my vehicle, and that is my wife. So I can't honestly claim to not know who the driver was. Can anyone suggest a suitable wording, or does this mean I had better pay up?

 

Thanks...

 

Proton

 

Is this really the case? A large number of fully comprehensive insurance policies allow the insured to drive any car other than the named one on a third party fire and theft basis.

 

When you have your car serviced, the mechanic will usually take it for a test drive.

 

If you feel uncomfortable with the sentence:

 

"I have to advise you that the driver could have been any one of a number of people and I keep no records of who has driven the car on any given day."

 

then leave it out in its entirity or replace it with:

 

"Even if knew who was driving at the time I am absolutely under no obligation to divulge this information to you. Should you disagree with this position please quote any relevent statutes which supports your case."

 

Remember, unlike say the Police, they have absolutely no right to demand evidence from you. They are the ones trying to make a case against you. It is simply not your place to "shop" yourself.

[digger42]

Hi Proton,

 

If you look back at the post's 114 and 115 of this thread you will find the letter that i used in my first reply to UKPC. Thanks to Barnsly Boy and Patdavies. This should clear any misunderstanding on your part as i was in the same situation as you. I then used Bernie's templete letters after my first reply from them.

[Proton]

Is this really the case? A large number of fully comprehensive insurance policies allow the insured to drive any car other than the named one on a third party fire and theft basis.

 

Thank you, you are absolutely correct. Only my wife and I are covered to drive my vehicle on my insurance, but there must be many other people who are legally able to drive it on their insurance. I have therefore retained the wording as it is.

 

I'll send it off recorded delivery on Monday... And so it begins.

 

Thanks.

 

Proton

[Proton]

If you look back at the post's 114 and 115 of this thread you will find the letter that i used in my first reply to UKPC.

 

Thanks Digger42.

 

By the way, did you ever hear any more from them?

 

Reading through this thread it looks as though your cease and desist letter was the last thing you sent to them, how many letters after that did you ignore before they actually stopped contacting you.

 

How long has it been now?

 

Thanks.

 

Proton

[todd58]

Hi

 

I have recieved a parking ticket from UKPC and I was not driving the car at the time. I have looked through the excellent template letters posted by Bernie the Bolt (many thanks) and I have a question.

 

At one stage Bernie says that if they allege that you were the driver or that you have to name the driver to say:

 

 

 

I was not the driver, but the problem is, there is only one other person who can drive my vehicle, and that is my wife. So I can't honestly claim to not know who the driver was. Can anyone suggest a suitable wording, or does this mean I had better pay up?

 

Thanks...

 

Proton

dont pay them

[digger42]

Hi Proton,

 

After I sent the 'cease & desist' I received a letter from Hunter forest.co, Asking for £115.00, I didn't reply or phone them, they gave me 7 days to pay, that was on the 6th december 07, Have not heard from them since.

 

Hope that answers your question.

 

don't give in to them, if you follow Bernie's templete letters, there is every chance they will go away.

 

As I was in the same position as you, I demanded they take me to court as i was 100% sure that i would win the case.

[SMARTIES1]

Stage 2. Received the Final Reminder Charge Certificate with an increased amount of £90. I have used Bernie's template No.2 - "cease & desist", so let's see where we go from here.

 

As a matter of interest Point 3 on the Certificate states: "3. As the registered owner / keeper / of the vehicle you are legally liable for the parking charge even if you were not the drvier at the time". Is this true?

 

I have also written to B&Q, who were completely unhelpful. They mentioned that signs were clearly mark and the reason for the charge would have been stated. Yes, signs were clearly marked, however, I was well within the 2 hour time limit and parked within bays. The reason for the Charge - "Unauthorised Parking" - mmmmmm that explains a lot!!!

 

I will hear from them again, no doubt .....

[Barnsley Boy]

As a matter of interest Point 3 on the Certificate states: "3. As the registered owner / keeper / of the vehicle you are legally liable for the parking charge even if you were not the drvier at the time". Is this true?

 

.....

 

No, it is complete rubbish!

 

They are paraphrasing the Road Traffic Act, which gives this statutory power to councils. A private parking company has no such entitlement.

 

Any entitlement the PPC has would be based on contract law. This "contract" would be with the driver of the vehicle at the time.

[SMARTIES1]

No, it is complete rubbish!

 

They are paraphrasing the Road Traffic Act, which gives this statutory power to councils. A private parking company has no such entitlement.

 

Thanks for the response BB, it is great to have the support of the members of this site.

[cabriochris]

Whilst at the McDonalds in Potters Bar today as talked about in the thread earlier i saw one of these to**ers ticketing cars.

 

He was parked himself on double yellows across the road in his black BMW 3 series with blacked out windows waiting for people. As soon as someone pulled up and got out there car he jumped out his car, still left of double yellows and ticketed it and ran back across to get back in his car behind the black windows, cheaky little bas*ard i thought.

 

I notice that DVLA give out details, how do they do this as i wouldnt mind knowing the details of were his car is registered X238 FMO

[pin1onu]

Whilst at the McDonalds in Potters Bar today as talked about in the thread earlier i saw one of these to**ers ticketing cars.

 

He was parked himself on double yellows across the road in his black BMW 3 series with blacked out windows waiting for people. As soon as someone pulled up and got out there car he jumped out his car, still left of double yellows and ticketed it and ran back across to get back in his car behind the black windows, cheaky little bas*ard i thought.

 

I notice that DVLA give out details, how do they do this as i wouldnt mind knowing the details of were his car is registered X238 FMO

 

You can make a request to the DVLA if you grounds. See here for details. However I think you would not have sufficient grounds for the release.

 

Did you get a photo of the vehicle? If he's parked on DYL on a public highway you might be able to provide that evidence and a statement to the Police who might want to issue the vehicle with an FPN or take other action. Be nice to strike one against them. (lol). Cops probably wont be interested tho.

[cabriochris]

I did think about getting a pic but i didnt in the end unfortunatly.

Thanks for the info anyway.

[todd58]

can anyone tell me do i have to reply to ukpc with the "stop and desist" or can i simply ignore their letters ?are there any reasons why i should reply legally,by not replying am i dropping myself in it ?

 

thanks

[pin1onu]

can anyone tell me do i have to reply to ukpc with the "stop and desist" or can i simply ignore their letters ?are there any reasons why i should reply legally,by not replying am i dropping myself in it ?

 

thanks

 

It depends on how you want to play it. You can just ignore their letters.

 

You are not legally dropping yourself in it by not replying. You have the right to remain silent. The reasoning in replying is this: In a civil dispute the courts prefer it if the matter can be resolved without the court being involved. The courts do take a dim view of plaintiffs who go straight to court without attempting resolution.

 

By the same token if you have been reasonable in your attempts to resolve the dispute (even if your response is "it's not my problem, take it up with the driver") then that should reflect well on you if it ever comes to court.

 

Also in replying with a cease and desist you put the PPC on notice that you aren't prepared to play their game. By issuing a cease and desist letter you then provide a chance for them to put their case in court or shut up. Any further attempts to gain payment by anything other than court action amount to harassment and will eventually provide you with the evidence you need to prove a harassment complaint under the Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, assuming you want to make one.

[SMARTIES1]

Received unexpected letter from UKPC today offering extension of the discount (£45) for a further 7 days or as a gesture of goodwill, to cancel the fine, if I provide receipts proving I shopped in the car park.

 

I don't actually have any receipts to give them as I haven't kept them. They have also said that I was issued the charge certificate for leaving the site. Do they have to prove this and is it relevant?

 

As a matter of interest, do you think they keep an eye on the site?

[Barnsley Boy]

Smarties1,

 

UKPCs claim is based on contract. It would be up to them to prove the establishment of the contract, prove your breach of the contract and prove that their proposed penalty [remember that case law, established for over 100 years ref the Dunlop v New Motor case specifically disallows penalties in English Law], is reasonable - all pretty far fetched.

 

Yes if it ever came to it, which it won't, UKPC would have to provide evidence that you left the site AND that you entered into a contract knowing that should you do this, you accept a £45 charge - more chance of you winning tonight's Eurolottery.

 

Do the PPCs watch these sites - yes they do and they hate it. Their business model depends on peoples ignorance of the law. The spread of knowledge threatens their cosy business model as the percentage of punters who tell them where to get off increases over time.

[gillybeans]

Hi guys

I need some advise my husbands company has received a charge certificate from UKPC for parking at B&Q in the Old Kent Road. The van is regesitered to my husbands company so the charge is addressed to the company. What's the best way to play this as from reading this forum any contract is between the driver (my husband and UKPC) should we just ignore or appeal. The notice just says unauthorised parking from the picture one wheel may or not be parked on the line of the bay. My husband wants to pay but I have told him that the company is not liable and if he wants to pay he has to pay it out his own pocket he is the type of person UKPC love as he doesn't want a fuss but having read this forum I think it outrageous for this to happen in what is a free car park. He purchased goods in B&Q and we have receipts to prove it an in no way did he prevent someone from parking in the next bay.

I want to appeal and have to by 22nd so your urgent advise would be most appreciatied