Are These Road Signs Illegal ?

[Jamberson]

good luck with your appeal,Ill keep my eyes on the local paper there!

 

If you want to help this guy with his PCN, why don't you start by telling us where in the Highway Code it specifies that these signs are correct? Then others can cross-check and confirm if it the case.

 

Constructive.

[rds60h]

Thank you to all that have helped out and have been supportive.

Unfortunately I have noticed just from this thread that some people are only prepared to give an opinion and not advice and even when supplied with printed fact still see fit to contradict.

As Jamberson has said when someone is seeking advice they need constructive help and not destructive opinions like "why did you do that" or "you should have done that" because if that had been done we wouldn't be seeking advice !!

[rds60h]

good luck with your appeal,Ill keep my eyes on the local paper there!

 

Do you honestly think that a local council will publicly admit to such errors that have led them to issue illegal PCNs and that potentially could cost them a fortune in tracing and refunding all those who have been fined in the past ?

[citizenkain]

well,you do?

[sailor sam]

well sailor sam,you wont be told so Im not going to waste my time trying to tell you,go and invest in a highway code book,theyre only a couple a quid!

 

No...? But you did anyway! You really need to ask Santa to pop one into YOUR stocking as it's YOU that needs a copy!

 

As I have said, the sign would of been adequate if there had been an alternative route for the OP to have taken to avoid the bus lane. As there wasn't, then a enforceable type sign (either blue or red circular sign) should be at the point where the bus lane begins which is visible to a driver emerging from a side road. The sign that is there is an information sign only and thus, not enforceable. It does not indicate that there is no alternative way to turn left without entering the bus lane.

 

It's as simple as that really, whether you like it or not.

[citizenkain]

the alternative route for the op to take was to turn right.either that or go out the other way,thats why they got a ticket.

[spb1957]

the alternative route for the op to take was to turn right.either that or go out the other way,thats why they got a ticket.

 

You'll be suggesting she should have taken the bus next !

[crem]

the alternative route for the op to take was to turn right.either that or go out the other way,thats why they got a ticket.

 

 

... which I am sure she would have used should she have seen a "no left turn" or "compulsory turn right" sign at the junction!!

[rds60h]

Citizenkain, your avatar it very apt for you, as you are obviously the one poking the other in the eye !!

And yes Life is a Pain.....................because of people like you.

Why do you post on an advice thread when all you want to do is criticise ?

[sailor sam]

Citizenkain, your avatar it very apt for you, as you are obviously the one poking the other in the eye !!

And yes Life is a Pain.....................because of people like you.

Why do you post on an advice thread when all you want to do is criticise ?

 

Note how long he has been a Cagger for then look at his 'reputation' level (shown by the green squares). Says it all really.

[citizenkain]

hmm,I aint the one with a bus lane ticket though am I?,Im not going on the likes a here and pepipoo crying about it? ,rds if I was you I would go all the way with your bus lane ticket and if it costs you thousands in court costs dont worry cos sailor sam and all the other folk that gave you the "non compliant" advice will pay your costs cos theyve told you you will be ok!,lol,,just come back here for the names and advice youve been given as evidence,lol,good luck with that one.

[Michael Browne]

if it costs you thousands in court costs.

 

Since you seem so knowledgeable, can you explain exactly how these thousands of court cost would arise?

 

or is this just another one of your ficticious 'examples'?

[Tony P]

Not wishing to take sides in the specifics of the discussion, and knowing we all first came here at different times, but compare 451 with 13,904 posts - and the green reputation marks.

[Michael Browne]

Not wishing to take sides in the specifics of the discussion, and knowing we all first came here at different times, but compare 451 with 13,904 posts - and the green reputation marks.

I think post counts and 'reputation' are a distraction, they don't really tell you anything.

[citizenkain]

thats for sure,ok,how the thousands of court costs would arise and remember theres a big IF in front of that,imagine a court case going on for months and all kinds a lawyers witnesses,statements involved it could soon run into thousands,lol,if the op was stupid enough to let it but I seriously dont think he would be stupid enough to go down that path for the sake of the few folk telling him hes in the right and luton borough council aint,be better just to pay the small fine and take it on the chin!,lol,next time you need to use a solicitor look at the bill and you will see these legal people dont charge peanuts!! Go ahead and have your day in court rds,you can refer back here for the names/IDs of the folk who told you that you were safe,get a court order for there true identitys,I got all these pages saved to file if you need them for evidence,dont worry if this thread is deleted,lol

[Raykay]

It is a civil contravention, so there won't be a court case.

[crem]

I may be wrong (as I have never had to appeal a PCN yet), but as far as I understood, you appeal in the first instance to the council FOR FREE and you may or may not have it cancelled.

 

If they don't cancel it you can then appeal to PATAS FOR FREE for an independant assessment

 

At PATAS it will either be cancelled if the adjudicator agrees with the OP on insufficient signage, or they will uphold the PCN agreeing with the council. The majority of people on this thread think that PATAS will reject the PCN, but if they don't then that would be pretty much the end of the appeal and the OP would have to pay the PCN at the standard full price.

 

I don't think you will find that cost to be thousands of pounds!!

[rds60h]

I may be wrong (as I have never had to appeal a PCN yet), but as far as I understood, you appeal in the first instance to the council FOR FREE and you may or may not have it cancelled.

 

If they don't cancel it you can then appeal to PATAS FOR FREE for an independant assessment

 

At PATAS it will either be cancelled if the adjudicator agrees with the OP on insufficient signage, or they will uphold the PCN agreeing with the council. The majority of people on this thread think that PATAS will reject the PCN, but if they don't then that would be pretty much the end of the appeal and the OP would have to pay the PCN at the standard full price.

 

I don't think you will find that cost to be thousands of pounds!!

 

You are correct Crem, that is exactly the course that an appeal runs.

Citizenkain appears to have his head up his own backside and judging by some of his comments he may well be some petty civil servant or council lacky who hates the fact that people discover their shortcomings and mistakes caused by their blithe attitude.

[citizenkain]

ha ha,very funny,youll be telling me next Im working in luton on the bus lane camera!,lol,hurry up and appeal your fine it will be free as you have been told,youve had plenty of advice so good luck.

[MaximusMeridius]

Lol

[green_and_mean]

hmm,I aint the one with a bus lane ticket though am I?,Im not going on the likes a here and pepipoo crying about it? ,rds if I was you I would go all the way with your bus lane ticket and if it costs you thousands in court costs dont worry cos sailor sam and all the other folk that gave you the "non compliant" advice will pay your costs cos theyve told you you will be ok!,lol,,just come back here for the names and advice youve been given as evidence,lol,good luck with that one.

 

Your comments must be some of the most comical I have ever seen, rather than just admit you are wrong you just dig a bigger hole and make yourself look like an idiot!! Even when it has been clearly explained why no contravention took place you still fail to grasp the simple fact that the signage is wrong, even the governments own traffic sign manual states it is. I'm happy to put my money where my mouth is and contribute to the PCN if the advice I have given is followed, I have never lost an appeal in 8 years so I will not be worrying too much!!

[filrobbo]

Well green and mean I shall be looking for

r you if I get one

[fletch70]

Surely it is worth the appeal if the appeal is free and no other penalty is involved.

 

I received a parking ticket in Birmingham one sunday and appealed as I thought the signs were misleading , my ticket was cancelled but during the appeal the discount period clock stopped ticking .

 

No ordinary person would take this to court unless they were extremely bloody minded, rich or stupid.

 

P.S I think the post count and reputation thing is pretty pointless. You can have 100 correct informative posts or 1000 incorrect , inaccurate posts....who do you listen to?

[citizenkain]

yeah,the op should go all the way with it,even if it takes years and keeps mounting up,green and mean is gonna contribute to the costs if it fails so there you go rds,phone them up in the morning and tell them you aint paying them nothing and the reasons why,sorted.

[Michael Browne]

ok,how the thousands of court costs would arise and remember theres a big IF in front of that,imagine a court case going on for months and all kinds a lawyers witnesses,statements involved it could soon run into thousands

 

That explains how costs can mount in a court case.

 

Now explain how that can happen in relation to appealing a penalty charge notice.