Are These Road Signs Illegal ?

[sailor sam]

It's odd. You can turn into the road, but can only get out again with a right turn. So perhaps it should have a blue "turn right" arrow, with "except buses" and some times. Something like that, anyway.

 

I don't know what the correct signage should be, but I am pretty sure this is not compliant as it doesn't convey the necessary information, ie that you can't enter the carriageway at all with a left turn. It just says there is a bus lane in that direction.

 

As I said previously, I think if the current sign was blue with an advanced sign prior to it, that would cover it.

[citizenkain]

the street leading up to that sign/junction is a bit bizarre,if you track straight back from there the street is double yellow lines and a closed end leading into a pedestrian walkway,the road leading in to that road has a raised red and white barrier,that road is some kind of restricted access/egress for the shopping centre there,it shouldnt be open to the general public at all,the red and white barrier should be down I think,its some kind of controlled area

[rds60h]

the street leading up to that sign/junction is a bit bizarre,if you track straight back from there the street is double yellow lines and a closed end leading into a pedestrian walkway,the road leading in to that road has a raised red and white barrier,that road is some kind of restricted access/egress for the shopping centre there,it shouldnt be open to the general public at all,the red and white barrier should be down I think,its some kind of controlled area

 

The end of the road that you mention is indeed a pedestrian only area which is seperated by barriers; so as such the road is a cul de sac, but access to the business's situated in the road and a public car park located at the rear of one of the buildings is required hence the road is accessable but only from the Stuart Street end but only by coming up Stuart Street and turning right into George Street West unless you are in a vehicle classed as a Bus in which case you can enter from either direction.

[citizenkain]

you should ask your wife how she got in that lane in the first place,if you turn right coming out of that road instead of left it comes up to a roundabout/junction with a no cars/motorbikes sign and a only buses sign so she cant have came down that way? she must have entered from the bottom end where there are access only signs and a dead end sign?

[rds60h]

you should ask your wife how she got in that lane in the first place,if you turn right coming out of that road instead of left it comes up to a roundabout/junction with a no cars/motorbikes sign and a only buses sign so she cant have came down that way? she must have entered from the bottom end where there are access only signs and a dead end sign?

 

I have said that in a car that you can only access George Street West by turning right into the road, but the situation in question is not about accessing George Street West it is about exiting George Street West and whether or not the Road Signs displayed are the correct Road Signs for the situation.

[citizenkain]

right,so shes entered the road by turning right into george street west crossing the bus lane then left that road turning left knowing it was a bus lane,good luck with that in court! personally I wouldnt have turned left even if their wasnt any signs,cos its a bus lane I would have noticed on the way in.That sign there is the proper legal sign for a bus lane when you are exiting a side street,it is also written in giant white paint on the road that it is a bus lane,kinda hard to be confused,she should have turned right

Edited November 29, 2013 by citizenkain

[citizenkain]

that road sign is the proper sign for a bus lane as you are emerging from a side street,there is also lettering on the road there in giant white letters stating it is a bus lane,it is blatantly obvious your wife should have turned right and not left,pay the fine and chalk it down to experience,in fact,if you were to go to court and get a nit picking judge she might get fined for driving without due care and attention as well.

[Michael Browne]

,if you were to go to court and get a nit picking judge she might get fined for driving without due care and attention as well.

 

What rubbish, this is a civil offence, there is no court involved, and there is no possibility of a fine for driving without due care and attention or any other criminal offence.

[citizenkain]

well if the op managed to get to court,nobody said there was a court involved,its cut and dried really but worse case scenario the op wants to go all the way with it,bit pointless really

[spb1957]

This one intrigued me, and just had to throw my penny's worth in..

The road sign is, according to the onine highway code, an information sign.

It states underneath the diagram "Bus lane on road at junction ahead"

To my mind that does not say it is a bus lane ONLY

As for suggesting she should have known it was a bus lane only as she had to come up that road to turn right across it, are we really expected to make a mental map of our 'escape route' when we're out driving ???

[Michael Browne]

well if the op managed to get to court,

Since there is no court involved, that's an impossibility

nobody said there was a court involved,

Yes they did you did

but worse case scenario the op wants to go all the way with it,bit pointless really

The sign is non-compliant, so the OP would stand a good chance at adjudication.

[sailor sam]

that road sign is the proper sign for a bus lane as you are emerging from a side street,there is also lettering on the road there in giant white letters stating it is a bus lane,it is blatantly obvious your wife should have turned right and not left,pay the fine and chalk it down to experience,in fact,if you were to go to court and get a nit picking judge she might get fined for driving without due care and attention as well.

 

Actually it isn't. A "proper" sign for a bus lane is blue. The sign that the OPs wife passed was an information sign which, I say again, is not the correct sign at that point.

 

It is absolutely irrelevant what happened prior to the alleged offence being committed. It matters not that the driver knew there was a bus lane there if the signage is incorrect.

[sailor sam]

well if the op managed to get to court,nobody said there was a court involved,its cut and dried really but worse case scenario the op wants to go all the way with it,bit pointless really

 

Not your money though so not your problem is it?

[green_and_mean]

Anyone with a little common sense would know not to turn left during the stated time period.

Pay the fine if there is one and note the lesson.

 

Anyone with any knowledge of the law would think you were an idiot but that doesn't really help the op anymore than your stupid advice.

There should be a no left turn 7am to 7pm except buses and cycles sign to go with the bus lane sign without it its not correct a bus lane as shown on the sign should have a lane alongside for cars but its actually a bus only route not a bus lane which is not clear due to the lack of signage. The writing on the road should also state bus and cycle lane so thats wrong to.

[citizenkain]

Not your money though so not your problem is it?

 

lol,thats for sure!

the signs are blue if you are on the main road not a side street leading onto a main road,and michael browne i used the go to court scenario as an example meaning only an idiot would take the ticket all the way as the offence is totally obvious to most people,maybe not you though!

[sailor sam]

Not your money though so not your problem is it?

 

lol,thats for sure!

the signs are blue if you are on the main road not a side street leading onto a main road,and michael browne i used the go to court scenario as an example meaning only an idiot would take the ticket all the way as the offence is totally obvious to most people,maybe not you though!

 

The sign at the start of the bus lane should be blue. As you make the left turn, you immediately enter the bus lane. I'm sure you can work out the rest even with your limited knowledge.

[Michael Browne]

,and michael browne i used the go to court scenario as an example meaning only an idiot would take the ticket all the way as the offence is totally obvious to most people,maybe not you though!

 

Well I'm not the idiot who advised "in fact,if you were to go to court and get a nit picking judge she might get fined for driving without due care and attention as well."

[citizenkain]

ha ha,if the person were to go to court she probably would in such a scenario.Sailor sam I suggest you check the highway code sign for a side street turning into a bus lane,I did even with my limited knowledge,dont bother apologising to me for pointing out the fact you are totally wrong cos I dont care.

[sailor sam]

ha ha,if the person were to go to court she probably would in such a scenario.Sailor sam I suggest you check the highway code sign for a side street turning into a bus lane,I did even with my limited knowledge,dont bother apologising to me for pointing out the fact you are totally wrong cos I dont care.

 

I don't need to apologise because it is YOU that is wrong. That sign would be correct IFthe bus lane was running along side an available lane to normal traffic. In this case there isn't, there is just the bus lane so there should be either a blue 'instruction' sign or a 'no left turn except buses' with a plate underneath indicating the times of the restriction.

 

Not sure why you keep rambling on about court as there is no court process involved. Mind you, i'm not sure why you are rambling on at all because your contribution to the thread is a big fat zero.

[crem]

I think most people in this thread have grasp the simple logic that if you don't want a car to turn left then you must use the correct sign to convey that information, i.e. either a "no left turn" sign (black left arrow with a line through it on a white circular sign with a red border) or a "complusory right turn" sign (white right arrow on a blue background circular sign).

 

Showing an information sign that there is a bus lane in the road if you turn left is very interesting, but in no way conveys the information that ONLY buses can use that road.to the left. Unless there is some other sign that we have not been shown in that road, then I think the OP has a valid defence on incorrect/inaccurate signage.

 

btw even if there is writing on the road saying no left turn, that writing is only supposed to be "additional information" and would not constitute the correct signage unless accompanied by the correct sign on a pole at the left hand verge to the driver.

[filrobbo]

I definitely agree with you there should be more sign on show then just the present one , like l said how many more have been find .

[citizenkain]

well sailor sam,you wont be told so Im not going to waste my time trying to tell you,go and invest in a highway code book,theyre only a couple a quid!

[rds60h]

ha ha,if the person were to go to court she probably would in such a scenario.Sailor sam I suggest you check the highway code sign for a side street turning into a bus lane,I did even with my limited knowledge,dont bother apologising to me for pointing out the fact you are totally wrong cos I dont care.

 

Sorry CitizenKain but it is you that needs to check the Law (the highway code is just a guide). You are WRONG, the sign you are talking about is as others have said is just an information sign and as Sailor Sam stated "That sign would be correct IF the bus lane was running along side an available lane to normal traffic."

Having now studied the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions and the Traffic Signs Manual I can confirm that there are several glaring errors in the signage used.

Please Note :: Diagram 962 is the White Background & Black Features Information Bus Lane Sign

Diagram 602 is a No Left Turn Sign

Taken from the Trafic Signs Manual :: 15.16 "The sign to diagram 962 may be provided on sideroads to warn emerging drivers of the presence of a with-flow bus lane on themajor road."

 

***** THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE !!! ***** (Also From 15.16)

"Where there is a banned turn from theside road and this prevents traffic from turning into the major road in thedirection of travel of the bus lane, a sign to diagram 962 should not be used."

And From Section 15.24 "For a bus lane on the same side of the majorroad as the side road, the arrow will point to the left. The sign should beaccompanied by the “no left turn” sign to diagram 613."

ALSO ::

15.17 Two sizes are prescribed for the sign to diagram962; in most cases the smaller size will be sufficient. The sign should be mountedbelow any GIVE WAY or STOP sign.

**** So even if it had been the correct sign it is not displayed in the correct place !!

And this is only some of the errors !!

I will be appealling !!!

[citizenkain]

good luck with your appeal,Ill keep my eyes on the local paper there!

[crem]

citizenkain, don't you find it difficult swimming upstream?