Are These Road Signs Illegal ?

[rds60h]

My wife has received a PCN for a Code 34: Being in a Bus Lane, which cannot be denied as she did indeed drive in the said Bus Lane.

 

However, I believe that the Road Signs for this Bus Lane as seen from the road that she entered the Bus Lane are incorrect and therefore illegal.

 

My wife was photographed turning left from a side road onto the Bus Lane which is on a 2 vehicle width road,

the lane next to the Bus Lane is for travelling in the opposite direction to which the Bus Lane goes,

which in effect means that anyone turning left from this side road MUST go in the Bus Lane.

 

Could someone on here please confirm or refute my belief,

Thank you.

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]47957[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]47956[/ATTACH]

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

That sign means there is NO LEFT TURN at the junction between the times shown, so nothing 'illegal' there!

[topcat1802]

I would have thought there should a NO LEFT TURN Sign, with an Exception below it "Except or Buses"

[citizenkain]

bus lane between 7am and 7pm

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Not needed it clearly states Bus Lane and the times it is quite clear.

[filrobbo]

It does not say no left turn in between these times,so I can see it been confusing ,I wonder how many more people have done the same thing and how much revenue they have collected .

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It does not need any extra signage the instruction is perfectly clear.

[lenn]

The signs are perfectly legal and the instruction is clear.

[filrobbo]

Not saying they are but for someone that hasn't looked at the Highway Code for some time I can see it been misleading and how many people do study it .

[rds60h]

Not needed it clearly states Bus Lane and the times it is quite clear.

 

But there is no notification that the road is Bus Lane Only, because most Bus Lanes run alongside the normal flow of traffic part of a road and as there is no confirmation that it is a Bus Only road which I believe is a blue sign I believe the sign to be illegal.

[green_and_mean]

If the road is for buses only at that time the sign is non compliant it should say 'no left turn except buses' if its two lanes with a bus lane on the left and other traffic running alongside its correct.

[rds60h]

If the road is for buses only at that time the sign is non compliant it should say 'no left turn except buses' if its two lanes with a bus lane on the left and other traffic running alongside its correct.

 

That was my thoughts. Would you mind having a look at it on Google maps for me please ? Search for LU1 2BJ which is George Street West and at the top if you turn left I think that will confirm that the road is for buses only at that time, hence the signs not being compliant.

[rds60h]

That sign means there is NO LEFT TURN at the junction between the times shown, so nothing 'illegal' there!

 

That Sign Does Not mean NO LEFT TURN at the junction between the times shown !!!

That sign means there is a Bus Lane that operates between those times, nothing else !

There are no signs to indicate that by turning left the Only Option is a Bus Lane !

Therefore I argue that although that sign is a legal sign it is used in the wrong situation and thus illegal.

[rds60h]

The signs are perfectly legal and the instruction is clear.

 

Road Signs are Only Legal if they are used in the right context, so how is the instruction clear ?

All it states is there is a Bus Lane that operates between set times, it does not state that the road becomes Buses Only nor does it state that there is No Left Turn for vehicles except Buses because as I stated before a Bus Lane usually runs parallel to another lane running in the same direction.

[sailor sam]

Hmm. In my opinion the sign should have a blue background.

[citizenkain]

theres probably other signs in that area before you get to that particular sign,also,theres probably writing on the road

[sailor sam]

theres probably other signs in that area before you get to that particular sign,also,theres probably writing on the road

 

According to street view, there isn't;

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=lu1+2bj+which+is+george+street+west+luton&ll=51.877855,-0.417202&spn=0.009617,0.022724&hq=lu1+2bj+which+is+george+street+west+luton&radius=15000&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.877766,-0.417279&panoid=ZbBcaBcKvnpsTxOUV1y0WA&cbp=12,224.75,,0,1.61

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Anyone with a little common sense would know not to turn left during the stated time period.

Pay the fine if there is one and note the lesson.

[Jamberson]

Anyone with a little common sense would know not to turn left during the stated time period.

Pay the fine if there is one and note the lesson.

 

Or, if the signs are non-compliant, then don't! Contest it!

[sailor sam]

I don't believe the signage is clear enough. It should be blue because you are more likely to take notice of a sign giving instruction rather than a white one giving information. As it is, it could suggest that the bus lane isn't immediately round the corner... but it is so the restriction is immediate thus meaning there should be an enforceable sign there with a plate showing the times of the enforcement period.

 

I agree with Jamberson... appeal on the grounds the signage before the junction is not the correct type.

[rds60h]

Anyone with a little common sense would know not to turn left during the stated time period.

Pay the fine if there is one and note the lesson.

 

And how would common sense tell you not to turn left when there is absolutely nothing there telling you that you cannot turn left ?

Besides, it is nothing to do with common sense it is to do with the law of the land and if the Council has not adhered to that law then it has no right to issue fines and by doing so is then committing yet another offence.

And in all honesty the majority of PCN parking fines issued are issued to make money for the Councils, which according to the rules of issuing said fines is illegal !! But you would have to prove in a definitive manner that is the case which would involve a huge court case and mega bucks on solicitors and lawyers which is way beyond the man on the street.

[LynetteC]

Anyone with a little common sense would know not to turn left during the stated time period.

Pay the fine if there is one and note the lesson.

 

As a stranger to the area, I wouldn't know that there was only one lane around that corner and to turn left would make me liable for a fine. In fact, I might even have turned left across the Bus Lane into oncoming traffic, not realising that it was a two-way road I was turning into as the signage does not make clear that the road is actually closed to normal traffic during those hours.

[rds60h]

Thank you to Green_and_Mean , Sailor Sam and Jamberson for looking at the situation from the actual legality side of the situation, I am going to research the actual signs required a bit more but I am almost certain that I will appeal.

My wife was in the wrong being in a Bus Lane but I believe the Council are also in the wrong by not displaying the correct signage and thus being the cause of the transgression.

[Jamberson]

It's odd. You can turn into the road, but can only get out again with a right turn. So perhaps it should have a blue "turn right" arrow, with "except buses" and some times. Something like that, anyway.

 

I don't know what the correct signage should be, but I am pretty sure this is not compliant as it doesn't convey the necessary information, ie that you can't enter the carriageway at all with a left turn. It just says there is a bus lane in that direction.

[sailor sam]

Thank you to Green_and_Mean , Sailor Sam and Jamberson for looking at the situation from the actual legality side of the situation, I am going to research the actual signs required a bit more but I am almost certain that I will appeal.

My wife was in the wrong being in a Bus Lane but I believe the Council are also in the wrong by not displaying the correct signage and thus being the cause of the transgression.

 

Please keep us posted on what happens. It's likely the council will reject your appeal but that dosn't necessarily mean you cannot take it further.