Ingeus

[MARTIN3030]

Please observe site posting rules in respect of links.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

According to the Every Day Counts Model, used by Ingeus, and available via their Website, Phase 3 is scheduled to last from Week 17-52 where

"Clients" .... (ie Job Centre Plus is the Client of Ingeus, Candidates have the Job Seekers Agreement, but Candidates have no relationship to Ingeus) ..... "have access to a dedicated personal advisor and undertake a series of group activities, including self help groups which help them to reflect and build on the progress they have made so far.

 

Every 6 weeks, Clients have a Peer Cohort Review where they evaluate their progress, set new goals, and provide challenge and support to one another. Group based working allows a collaborative approach to job searching and allow clients to identify and follow role models".

 

......>

 

We are talking about a "Welfare To Work" Organisation, staffed by Administrative Staff who are beneath the intellectual capacity of Administrative Clerks within Job Centre Plus, where Job Centre Plus simply designates all Welfare To Work Providers as "DWP Job Centre Data Processors".

 

I assume that, if your appointment with the Administrative Clerk within Phase 2 of the Ingeus Work Programme were every 2 weeks, appointments within Phase 3 are likely to be weekly. However, the Tender Document produced by Ingeus does not specify the time frame.

 

If you have been subject to any form of character assassination from Administrative Staff within Ingeus, just remember that it is employers who control the Recruitment Process, not the candidate, and hence why on earth do Administrative Clerks within Ingeus work to the orthodox belief that the only reason why any candidate is unemployed is down to the candidate.

 

Hello

 

Today I attended the initial stage (a group session) of the Personal Routeways with Ingeus.

 

Next is a 1-2-1 appointment with an adviser, followed by a 6-week plan.

 

Is it appointments, just every 6 weeks, with Ingeus (along with appointments with whoever Ingeus will tell me to see too)?

 

And how many "6 weeks" are there during the Personal Routeways?

 

Thank you for reading

Edited June 14, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[johnkirk]

I went for my first appointment last week when i left i felt that the person i seen was not listening to me, she said that she would have a look at my cv and change it i protested because i am sick of chaning my cv just because someone does't like the layout, as i tried to point out that employers have their own ideas of how a cv should be so it does not make any differenc how it is written. She also that when i went in the following week she would have a look to see if their was any more benefits that i could get, i told her it was a waste of time because i had already looked into it and had been told that i could not get any more money, but it is like talking to a brick wall. When i got home and read the letter that she gave which i now will write i beleive that it is a form of bullying "Your activites for your next appointment are:

You are requiredto attend your next arranged advisor interview as detailed at the top of this letter

Please bring in a completed jobseeker diary including employer details,

job title and the method in which you applied for position.

The information must be sufficient so that your advisor can contact an employer to chase up your application on yor behalf

This tracker form must include a minimun of three advertised jobs per week that you have applied for

Your are required to email a digital copy of your cv to name at ingeus .co.uk

 

The activities listed in this letter should be completed before or by your next appointment. please ensure that you bring evidence to show that you have completed the above activites to your next appointment.

 

mandatory activity notification - this is a mandatory appointment.

 

If you do not undertake the activites required in this notification your benfits could be affected.

 

I have taken a copy of this letter to by MP's office and they have said that as long as i satisfy the job centre then that shoud do.

 

As i said above it is in my opition a form of bullying and since i have been to them i have not slept for four or five days wil worry it is hard enough to survie on dole money as it is without being threatned of loseinf it.

 

I would say to everybopdy on the work programme weather it is with ingeus or not should go and see their MP if they are not happy

[Nystagmite]

i seen was not listening to me, she said that she would have a look at my cv and change it

 

Mine was changed. After another company (working links) had already changed it once.

[down'n'out]

You are requiredto attend your next arranged advisor interview as detailed at the top of this letter

Please bring in a completed jobseeker diary including employer details,

job title and the method in which you applied for position.

The information must be sufficient so that your advisor can contact an employer to chase up your application on yor behalf

This tracker form must include a minimun of three advertised jobs per week that you have applied for

Your are required to email a digital copy of your cv to name at ingeus .co.uk

 

I am doubtful concerning most of that.

 

You will need to verify as to what your job seekers agreement states. Did you sign anything at the WP such as the waiver for data protection, or allowing them to contact employers on your behalf or contacting any employer who may employ you?

 

From my understanding:-

You are not required to e-mail a digital copy of your CV

You can disallow them contacting possible employers on your behalf

You only have to abide by your jobseekers agreement.

 

mandatory activity notification - this is a mandatory appointment.

Please note: The mandatory activity is "The appointment" not the passing over of personal information.

 

If you do not undertake the activites required in this notification your benfits could be affected.

Attending the appointment would be fulfilling the mandatory activity, and fulfilling your participation in WP

 

A WP will only place a "doubt"(possible sanction) if you actively refuse to participate or miss mandated activity. They cannot mandate you to hand over personal information (such as giving them a copy of your CV)

[Bakatcha]

down n out is correct.

refuse to be bullied.

Read about your rights at consent.me.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Mine was changed. After another company (working links) had already changed it once.

My Profound Sympathies for having been associated with a Welfare To Work Organisation of similar repute to A4E.

[debt4get]

if you are ever going to email them a copy of a cv, and i recommend you do not..make sure it is password protected and in pdf form...mine has copyright scawled across it, it is password protected and they cannot print, change or copy it....the programme you need is primopdf just google it is free, will change word to pdf and has built in password protection so your document cannot be changed

[Arantine Ehlael]

...

 

As i said above it is in my opition a form of bullying...

 

More accurately playing on the conditionality of benefits is a way of getting compliance, and that letter’s exact wording in that bit is part of the standard Ingeus client letter template. Your MP is right, as long as you satisfy your JSAg conditions and turn up for your mandatory appointments you should be fine. Just be prepared for continued pressure from the Ingeus peeps to get what they want though. Despite the job title you should see them less as genuine advisors and more as sales people. Please do follow the advice given by others above and arm yourself with knowledge of consent and your rights.

 

That extensive information request from Ingeus is to do with their false assumption that the only reason that people are out of work is because they are doing something wrong (Ingeus and the like are deniers of poor economic conditions and possible "specialness" of people involved in recruiting), and so they need as much information about and from you as possible so they can identify it and fix it. When you finally land a job it’s also easier for them to claim payment from the government if they know who you’re working for and for how long. You don't have to provide them with in-depth information - just the bare bones as you would for the Jobcentre.

 

Although some "advisors" are less gentle than others, in general they all seem to possess a knack of not listening. I’ve found the best way to deal with such people is let them have their way to a certain extent and let the inevitable consequences unfold. For example, I told the Ingeus peeps that going back into the same employment I had just been made redundant from wasn’t a good option because permanent work in that area was decreasing drastically. They then spent most of their time trying to get me work in that exact field, eventually only getting me a temp job. As a result I’m still in the exact same situation I was when I was referred to them a year ago, still a problem for them, still costing them money, and they’re still unable to claim sustained employment payment from the government – just as I politely told them (on several occasions) would happen if they went down that road.

 

Hope you'll be able to sleep better. And stay strong!

[caledfwlch]

if you are ever going to email them a copy of a cv, and i recommend you do not..make sure it is password protected and in pdf form...mine has copyright scawled across it, it is password protected and they cannot print, change or copy it....the programme you need is primopdf just google it is free, will change word to pdf and has built in password protection so your document cannot be changed

 

You could send it password protected, in that it cannot even be opened or read!! you are complying with their alleged rules, the rules dont say it has to be openable/readable by an advisor, just that a digital copy must be sent. So you can send a copy they simply cannot view

[debt4get]

You could send it password protected, in that it cannot even be opened or read!! you are complying with their alleged rules, the rules dont say it has to be openable/readable by an advisor, just that a digital copy must be sent. So you can send a copy they simply cannot view

problem with doing that is you could leave yourself open to sanctions...my cv contains virtually s*d all they can use...no company names, no contact details apart from my home address..no phone number...no email contact......

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Although reference to a Freedom of Information Request will confirm that, whereas a candidate must show a CV to either staff within Job Centre Plus or Ingeus, it is not necessary to provide either a printed copy or electronic copy.

 

Of course, if an Admin Clerk at Ingeus requests that a candidate leaves a hard copy or emails a copy, that is entirely a matter for the candidate, but is not mandatory.

[Bakatcha]

You don't have to provide them with a CV!

I found it convenient to show them a paper copy of my CV just to prove that I had one (and to avoid a senseless CV writing course). I have refused to let them copy it or to let them have a soft copy. As I'm within my rights they haven't even threatened sanctions. If they ever do they will be made to look very foolish.

[debt4get]

You don't have to provide them with a CV!

I found it convenient to show them a paper copy of my CV just to prove that I had one (and to avoid a senseless CV writing course). I have refused to let them copy it or to let them have a soft copy. As I'm within my rights they haven't even threatened sanctions. If they ever do they will be made to look very foolish.

exactly if you dont show them one..then you are going to get hassle over 'senseless cv courses....best let them have a look at one they cannot alter (redacted of course) and not let them have a copy...sending an email with a copy they cant open is gonna label you as a nuisance..however, if you want to push the system that is everyones right...best to stay within the compliance procedures than let them sanction you over something stupid....though i think this government may start to try and close these loopholes that we are finding..

[Grumpyoldgit]

I have added this to the bottom of my cv,

 

 

Data protection act 1998.

This document is provided for administrative purposes only. No permission to reproduce, distribute, share, or disseminate the information contained within is granted or implied by its submission. Any violation of these conditions will be reported to the Office of the Information Commissioner and may result in criminal prosecution

 

 

And this to my application letter template. Feel free to cut and paste!

 

This email transmission including any attachments is confidential and may also contain information that is legally privileged and copyright material. It is intended solely for the addressee. . You must not disclose or use in any way the information in the email.If you receive this email by mistake please promptly inform me by reply email and then delete the email and destroy any printed copy. Any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this email transmission, or action taken in reliance on this email transmission, is unauthorised and prohibited under the Data Protection Act 1998

 

Edited June 20, 2012 by Grumpyoldgit
bad spacing

[pixeljockey]

Hi All!

 

First post in here, love reading all the posts, they've given me plenty of ammo for todays appointment. I wont be signing anything other than an action plan. They can see my CV which has a copyright/data protection notice attached, is also password protected and hosted on my private server which I can remove at any time. My personal information is also blocked out, the only thing ill allow them is my email address which is my own domain which I can also remove if needs be.

 

Ill update this forum later to say what went on to hopefully help others with these money grabbing parasites!!

[debt4get]

Hi All!

 

First post in here, love reading all the posts, they've given me plenty of ammo for todays appointment. I wont be signing anything other than an action plan. They can see my CV which has a copyright/data protection notice attached, is also password protected and hosted on my private server which I can remove at any time. My personal information is also blocked out, the only thing ill allow them is my email address which is my own domain which I can also remove if needs be.

 

Ill update this forum later to say what went on to hopefully help others with these money grabbing parasites!!

you do not have to sign the action plan and i suggest you don't....if you aren't sure insist on taking all the paperwork home with you...do not refuse to sign just insist that you wish to take advice before signing anything

[debt4get]

personally i would record every word that is said...dont let them know you have a mobile or a telephone number...dont let them know you have an internet connection at home...dont let them up your existing job seekers agreement i.e. by signing 'action plan'...

[caledfwlch]

I have added this to the bottom of my cv,

 

 

Data protection act 1998.

This document is provided for administrative purposes only. No permission to reproduce, distribute, share, or disseminate the information contained within is granted or implied by its submission. Any violation of these conditions will be reported to the Office of the Information Commissioner and may result in criminal prosecution

 

 

And this to my application letter template. Feel free to cut and paste!

 

This email transmission including any attachments is confidential and may also contain information that is legally privileged and copyright material. It is intended solely for the addressee. . You must not disclose or use in any way the information in the email.If you receive this email by mistake please promptly inform me by reply email and then delete the email and destroy any printed copy. Any use, interference with, disclosure or copying of this email transmission, or action taken in reliance on this email transmission, is unauthorised and prohibited under the Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

I would suggest intefering with, transmitting onwards etc your CV with that notice would in fact also be copyright infringement. So put a copyright notice on too.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

If candidates, having been assigned to the Work Programme, disagree with any decision reached by Admin Clerks within Ingeus, they should follow any complaints procedure, and if the matter remains unresolved (for example, if the candidate is sanctioned or assigned to Mandatory Work Activity) should seek legal advice.

 

The problem with the Work Programme is that no thought has been given, and the Government accepted that a Black Box approach should be adopted-there are no systems, procedures, policies in place which allow some uninformed Administrative Clerk within Ingeus (for example) to scrutinise the Skills Profile of a candidate, and if it is easier for the Clerk to criticise the candidate, they will do that.

 

However, in the case of a Sanction, it may be possible to take the matter beyond the appeal, and through a Judicial Review

http://www.publiclawproject.org.uk/downloads/GuideToJRProc.pdf

Edited June 22, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
Changed Post

[Slatted]

Hasn't it also been noted on either this thread or similar that complaints procedures through WP organisations are usually not provided and the fact that they do their own "investigation" does not really boost confidence that will be fair and unbiaised......

 

And how lovely to add even more stress to a sick person.....

[flumps1976]

The idea is that if your make an offical complaint aboutthe WP provider you should also follow it up at your local JCP office to ensure that the regional head offices are made aware of problems and issues.

The issues aren't being fed to the people who nned to know and are in the position to feedback to Government which is the only way that these things can ultimately be dealt with.

They need t be shown for what they are and what they do!

[Bakatcha]

Hasn't it also been noted on either this thread or similar that complaints procedures through WP organisations are usually not provided and the fact that they do their own "investigation" does not really boost confidence that will be fair and unbiaised......

 

And how lovely to add even more stress to a sick person.....

 

I think that every provider has to have a complaints procedure - this being specified by the DWP in their original Invitation To Tender..

The problem is that the providers have deliberately made their procedures multi layered and complex. In order for a complaint to reach the Independent Complaints Examiner (ICE) it has to have passed through all the layers at the provider without being resolved. Providers tend to assume that a complaint is "resolved" once a meeting has been held and no further "comeback" ensues. If there is a further notification i.e. complainant says in writing that the complaint still stands it gets kicked upstairs to the next level of "Da Management", and so on, and so on, and so on until all levels are exhausted and only then can a complaint be made to the ICE.

This is a long exhausting process (it is meant to be) during which the complainant can expect to be intimidated by such tactics as multi teaming (more than one of the WP employees being present), sat like a naughty schoolkid facing some guy(s) ensconced behind big desks and good cop/bad cop routines - plus anything else thay can come up with to make the complaint "go away". It takes a very determined, articulate and confident individual to pursue a complaint all the way in such circumstances.

 

Really there should be some sort of truly independent body that can be complained to straight off. Such a body having the power to order the provider to rectify any faults found..

 

Ain't gonna happen though.

[Nystagmite]

I've never really be able to make a complaint with my WP provider. JCP are more than happy for me to make a complaint with them; but the WP provider isn't.

[neilmol2009]

Just been to Ingeus and they are saying to me that they are going to do everything by the book now because I won't give them my details. I had to see the manager of Liverpool and Southport and she said I did and I told her I didn't and said the Jobcentre says you have to find a way round the claimant if they don't consent, this had her foxed and she said it wasn't true. She was so sure of herself that she didn't carry on asking, they don't have a clue. They said they were going to put me on all the activities trying to scare me I was already booked on them!

Also she gave me application tracker for a list of jobs I have applied for I showed her my jobseeker one and she said she needs their one filling in, is this true? I also said what happens to this because you can't contact these people as I haven't signed the waiver. They said they don't anyway, like I believe that. Does anyone what would happen if I refuse or just blanked out the details, can I be sanctioned? Thanks