Cunningham Lindsay ***WON***

[struan]

well done,

[BADGER 69]

Cunningham Lindsey is up to all sorts of tricks. One of their tricks is to employ Uplands as their contractors. I have been given to understand, by someone who has checked with Companies House, that Uplands is a subsidiary of Cunnigham Lindsey. Uplands then contracts the work out to a third party who does not do the work that you are led to believe was to be done. I have had that experience myself.

[jolygreengiant]

OMG I feel for anyone having to deal with these people.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/aviva-questions-issues/172187-your-home-insurance-worth.html

 

We have lost out house. The insurance co. & CL couldnt care less.

[sick of asprea]

You can ring Aviva and insist on using their Building Arm who are called Asprea

We found them to be very good and far superior to Cunningham Lindsey and Crawfords Loss Adjusters

The main problem with Crawfords and especially Cunningham and Lindsey is that they have used a smaller group of larger Building Companies for many years who offer a poor quality service due to poor admin and heavy workload

Nobody joins the or leaves their tender lists or approved list of Contractors

Many Loss Adjusters have addmitted to us off the record they try and avoid using their own Contactors as the complaints ratio is so high

and often fetch this up at meetings

But their Bosses take no notice and the same band of Builders are employed year in year out and no new Contractors no matter how impeccable their references may be, are given any opertunity to join this closed shop

This is right from the people in the know

 

 

 

 

Well all I can say is you work for them so your opinion really does not mean didlly squat.

 

It is my misfortune to have had a water leak on the 9/1/2010 and from that day until the 1st April Asprea did their level best to avoid doing anywork to my property,in fact had it not been for Aviva supplying phone numbers of the other contractors involved nothing at all would have got done.

from day one when they left me for 12 hours overnight with no heating lighting or water when it was -3% outside I have had to phone them 2/3 times daily to get anything sorted.

By mid march we called Aviva and said we were going to the ombudsman as the so called claim adjuster who would be my personal contact point and organiser could not even bother to answer my calls never mind return them. They said we will put you on to Cunningham Lindsay ok so our contact there does speak to us but we still have to contact him to get things done, they are not co-ordinated and he appears to never read emails apparently his preference is phone call, then of course you have no proof of what has been said or agreed. In general calls into this sort of company are "recorded to assist in training" but calls out are a different matter.

During our claim we have dealt with Aviva, Aprea, Cunningham Lindsay, Ival, Facilities, Aspect, LRL,Chemdry,a removal company whose name escapes me, Connaughts, then of course there is my bank who provided my home insurance. Is it any wonder things do not get done with so many companies involved ?

All of a sudden after April 1st we had a volley of phone calls and work started to progress, funny how this co-insides with the take over of Asprea by Aviva, until this point Asprea were owned and run by Carrillion.

My advice to anyone about to make a claim get a diary record every call you make keep all correspondence in a file together, even emails set a separate folder for all emails in and out, take photos before claim starts and during, making a note of when each was taken so you have photographic evidence of how things are progressing Or not as the case may be. We have been with out 2 bedrooms in our property since the 9/1/2010 and we have 3 adult sons all living at home one of who has had to sleep on a lilo in the lounge (that is once the lounge floor was dry enough) Aviva did advise us at one point to order a mattress for him we were not allowed to order a bed base until the bed had been deemed un restorable, I asked where she suggest I put it as at the time the bedrooms could not be used and the floors in the lounge and dining room were sodden, she did not understand that when you have water at mains pressure cascading through your house so fast it forces a ceiling down that the bed directly under it would not be restorable. I had to laugh when we eventually had contact with Asprea, the first words out of the guys mouth were I understand you had a leak WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO ABOUT IT !!!! then he said we will be there friday or early next week bearing in mind this was sunday morning and we had spent the night clearing up as best we could with no lights. Even after I told him we had no light or heating the penny did not drop about maybe we should be offered alternate accomadation, this was finally offered mid march. You suggest insisting on using Asprea my advise INSIST THAT THEY USE SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE DOING.

Aspect/Connaughts/Chemdry and LRL should be applauded for managing to work with such an incompedent company there tradesmen have been excellent and Aspect did everything they could to cause as little disruption as possible while they removed the asbestos containing artex

[boardwalk220]

Over the years I have dealt with most insurance companies and sadly quite a few loss adjusters, hence my opinion / advice is as follows:

 

1) You have a contract with the insurers so do not let them push you off to a firm of loss adjusters just because it suits them to do it. If they do recommend any company, check them out on websites like this and tell the insurers what you have read. Refer them to the website.

 

2) Ensure your claim is realistic and will stand up to scrutiny. Inflated claims are the reason that loss adjusters exist

 

3) There is no such thing as a good company of loss adjusters. They earn their fees by how much you are not paid and have no interest whatsoever in delivering a service to you. You are not their customer, the insurance company is.

 

4) Record all correspondance, no matter how insignificant it may seem

 

5) Make your requirements very clear at the onset. e.g. I want this claim settled within 28 days from todays date, I want the work carried out by an accredited company, I want the right of sign off that the work has been completed to my satisfaction, etc etc

 

6) Make it very clear that you will have no hesitation in escalating if your requirements are not met, and you must be prepared to do it.

 

7) Be assertive, not aggressive. Aggression will only give them ammunition.

[Flatlander]

It must be remembered that as a Loss Adjuster Cunningham Lindsay are supposed to be neutral and to assess repairers estimates.

They should limit themselves to this and to advising the Claimant what the insurers may or maynot not accept.

But they do seem to be acting as Judge and Jury when that should not be their role.

I recommend, where people are having problems with CL that they go back to the Company /Broker who provided the Insurance and advise them that the matter is not being managed properly and due to CL's atitude that a Legal / Professional adviser should be in a ttendance at all meeting involving CL and that the cost of the adviser must be to the Insurers / Sellers account.

I am not sure that Underwriters are entirely aware of the conduct of companys such as CL.

[djmetsandy]

Not particularly in agreement with this reply - see my comments in red;

 

Over the years I have dealt with most insurance companies and sadly quite a few loss adjusters, hence my opinion / advice is as follows:

 

1) You have a contract with the insurers so do not let them push you off to a firm of loss adjusters just because it suits them to do it. If they do recommend any company, check them out on websites like this and tell the insurers what you have read. Refer them to the website.

 

Whilst an insurance company may take your opinion into consideration it is ultimately down to the policy wording whether you have a say in the matter of appointing a supplier/loss adjuster. I will use two policy wordings to explain my point - AXA Home Insurance & Aviva Home Insurance policy wordings.

 

When you take out an insurance policy, you accept the terms and conditions underwritten by that particular company. In AXA's case they state the following;

 

With your agreement we may appoint an approved supplier to act on our behalf to validate your claim. They are authorised to arrange a quotation, a repair or a replacement.

http://www.axainsurance.com/homeinsurance/policy-wording/policywording_43.pdf#page=24

 

Whereas Aviva state the following;

 

There’s no need to fill out a claim form or arrange estimates, we’ll take care of all the arrangements and, provided the incident is covered, settle the bill (apart from the excess) directly with the supplier.

http://www.aviva.co.uk/library/pdfs/home/NHDHG6080.pdf#page=2

 

However I will note that there are other finer points which may have a bearing on the insurance companies decision to change supplier/loss adjuster should you dispute their decision. Main one being the cost of a claim being referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) - I believe it's in the region of £500-600 but I may be wrong.

 

2) Ensure your claim is realistic and will stand up to scrutiny. Inflated claims are the reason that loss adjusters exist

 

Inflated claims are not the only reason loss adjuster's exist. My first thought on the reason behind their existence would be to accurately and promptly estimate the cost of a claim in order to ensure a claim in "valued/reserved" at the correct amount. These figures feed back to Actuaries who in turn have an effect on the insurance companies calculation of premiums for the mass.

 

3) There is no such thing as a good company of loss adjusters. They earn their fees by how much you are not paid and have no interest whatsoever in delivering a service to you. You are not their customer, the insurance company is.

 

As far as my knowledge goes for the insurance industry - please correct me if I am wrong - a loss adjuster is not paid by how much they "adjust" a claim but rather on a delegated scheme where the handling fee is previously agreed (unrelated to the claim at hand). However, a loss adjuster can also be on a "retained basis" where the agreed delegated authority fee is superseded by a hourly fee. The status of the arrangement (retained or delegated) are dependant on pre-agreed remit.

 

4) Record all correspondance, no matter how insignificant it may seem

 

Agree nor disagree.

 

5) Make your requirements very clear at the onset. e.g. I want this claim settled within 28 days from todays date, I want the work carried out by an accredited company, I want the right of sign off that the work has been completed to my satisfaction, etc etc

 

Whilst I agree you can state you want an accredited company (to which you will receive anyway) and do not believe you have the right to dictate how long a claim should take. The onus is on the insured to provide all documentation to support their claim (Onus of Proof - Anderson vs Norwich Union 1977). If the information is lacking then this can understandably delay the claim. Each claim is handled on it's own merits

 

6) Make it very clear that you will have no hesitation in escalating if your requirements are not met, and you must be prepared to do it.

 

All insurance companies are regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) and are expected to follow the six outcomes of "Treating Customers Fairly". Outcome six basically states that insurers can not prevent customers from complaining. An insurance company is well aware that if a customer isn't satisfied/happy they will register a complaint so I do not believe bully tactics are required.

 

Whilst a supplier/loss adjuster may not be regulated by the FSA, their appointment creates this regulation indirectly via the insurer.

 

7) Be assertive, not aggressive. Aggression will only give them ammunition.

 

Assertiveness and aggression can both work against your favour - "behaviour breeds behaviour" . Be honest, co-operative and, to a degree, patient. These favourable traits will inspire willingness to assist by the other party (insurer/loss adjuster/supplier etc.).

 

Although unrelated to the above, I will, for ease of reference, quote the functions of loss adjusters and loss assessors from the Chartered Institure of Insurance - Certificate in Insurance study text booklet (IF1 Insurance, Legal and Regulatory);

 

I3 - Loss adjusters

 

...Their functions are:

 

1. the investigation of the circumstances surrounding the claim;
   
2. determining whether and to what extent the policy covers the loss;
   
3. facilitating any emergency measures, e.g. for the protection of property;
   
4. negotiation of amounts claimed;
   
5. negotiation with any specialist suppliers; and
   
6. making a recommendation for settlement to the insurer.
   

...Their aim is to negiotiate a settlement, within the terms of the policy, which is fair to both the insurer and the insured...Invariably, their fees are met by the insurers who instruct them.

 

I4 - Loss assessors

 

Loss assessors hold themselves out as experts in dealing with insurance claims. They are appointed by an insured to prepare and negotiate a claim on their behalf. The assessor's fees are paid by the insured but these costs do not form part of the insured's claim and cannot be recovered from the insurer.

 

Kind regards,

 

Andy

Edited February 12, 2011 by djmetsandy

[bernie129]

eager ftb,

Unfortunately it sounds like you are dealing with a part of Aviva the insurance company with the most complaints to the financial omnbudsman.

 

What you need to do immediatly is go to the yellow pages and find yourself a good loss assessor to work for you.They charge about 10% of the claim but they will more than cover that with the additional monies they will be able to claim for you.

 

You cannot work as your own claims manager as you are not experienced enough to deal with an insurance company once you have appointed an assessor your claim should progress a lot quicker.Good luck.

Edited February 13, 2011 by bernie129
forgot to mention that Aviva are the company with the most compaints to the financial omnbudsman

[Conniff]

If you are responding to a post, can you please quote that post so that there is a flow that can be followed.

[bernie129]

Just done that conniff thanks for reminding me.

 

What people dont realise is because cunningham lyndsay are inneficient and slow they think the insurance company would not employ them - but the slower and more inneficient they are the better it is for the insurance company as it delays and lessens the claim they have to pay out.

 

I personally think a lot of insurance companies would like to take your premium and then not cover you at all - and if this forum is anything to go by im not far wrong !

Edited February 13, 2011 by bernie129

[Flatlander]

Loss Adjusters are a fact of life. Cunningham Lindsey claim , when dealing with the Insured that they are independent, a look at their website kicks that into touch.

It is apparent that they advertise to represent Insurers only adn do spin things out, in my case nearly 5 years looking at a subsidence claim that was screwed up by Crawfords = the relationship between Crawfords and their preferred repairers was to say the least suspicious.

This all brings into question he attitude of the Underwriters - do they wish to settle claims or not?

I would recommend anyone avoid the FOS, the evidence is that if you have an issue with a small independent 'Got no money or resources' Broker the Ombudsman will probably act BUT if your issue is with a large institution the Ombudsman is worthless.

If you have issues that may involve he regulator call the FSA they are much more approachable these days.

Meanwhile the big question is this - Are we being ripped off by the Underwriters ?

[tifo]

i've had a bad experience with CL

 

they were appointed after 2 years of the insurer wasting time and then with ONE WALKAROUND the house CL declined the claim. Nothing but a 'visual inspection'. The assessor did not even touch anything.

 

within a few weeks i got a report that nothing is covered and they used every exclusion they could.

 

i passed my claim to the FOS. I got a decision that the damage is covered and the insurer accept that there are defects which have resulted in damage and that they cannot rely on the exclusions, so they should pay up. The insurer has refused and wants a review. That means another year of waiting for me which will take it to 4 years and then maybe nothing.

 

the FOS said my treatment by the insurer and CL was unacceptable and that CL were too quick to decline the claim rather than look at proper documents which would show that i was fully covered. So i now need to make a complaint to CL about their assessment of my claim and i've told them i don't want this passing to the insurer, as it's about THEM and their RICS surveyor.

[Cjascavj999]

Hi I am new to this forum as a new person to this forum I must say that boardwalk 220 is a very good source of information

I am having similar trouble with cunnigham lindsay I have waited a full six months only to be told that it was not my next door neighbour who flooded my house but it is rising damp that peeled thewall paper offf my walls and ruined my carpets as well as ruining my whole families health .I am not waiting any longer and have taken the advice of one of the other forum mebers and have taken on my own solicitor and i intend taking cunninham lindsay to taask about my complaint and then send them the biil.

it is my understanding that this can be done but the final bill will be sent to my Insurance Company

the person who flooded my house has sold the to another person and dumped us to prove that the did flood our house cunningham lindsay are now telling us to prove the next door neighbour was negligent and we have to prove this also they are trying to get out of a large claim by sayinh we had rising damp before we were flooded out I Will take this to and end and pursue the persons resposible to the ends of the earth if need be.

Cjascavj999

 

I'm just asking if anyone has had any experience of the loss adjusters Cunningham Lindsay?

 

My parents were unfortunate to have a house fire on the 2nd January which badly damaged their property. They are insured through Saga, which I understand is part of Norwich Union.

 

Cunningham Lindsay were appointed as the loss adjusters for the claim and house restoration. It has to be said they are the worst and most unprofessional outfit we have ever had the misfortune to deal with.

 

We are unable to speak to our alleged claims manager and loss adjuster as they never, ever answer phone calls and emails. They certainly never reply to messages or call us back. We have had instances of them putting the phone down on my parents. We have only seen the loss adjuster once in person! We never get updates as to what is happening regarding restoration, in fact is is very rare for them to call us at all.

They left us marooned in a motel for in excess o 4 weeks with delays moving into rented property (due to a forgotten cheque) which had been arranged 2 weeks after the fire by ourselves.

We are effectively our own claims managers, constantly calling the building contractors Asprea and sub contractors Ansa making arrangements for yet another 'inspection', and to find out when and if they are ever going to start work on the house.

 

To this date nearly 9 weeks after the fire, not one stitch of work has been done to start to restore the house, which has been sat damaged through one of the coldest winters for a good few years.

 

We really don't know where to go for advice on how to sort the mess out, we have a contact at the insurance company who trys to help, but once you put the phone down it seems we are forgotten about once again. We have lodged a complaint with the insurance company, but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

[Cjascavj999]

there are some forum members giving information that you can in fact employ a solicitor and send the bill to your insurance company you should look into some of the posts that give this info

I have and I have already been to a local solicitor who has agreed to take on Sanatander and aviva i my case

Cjascavj999

[m2lou]

We are about to issue high court proceedings against a company whose claims are represented by Cunningham Lindsey. Any UK tabloids or documentary researches please contact us direct via this server.

[wearestressed]

We are about to issue high court proceedings against a company whose claims are represented by Cunningham Lindsey. Any UK tabloids or documentary researches please contact us direct via this server.

 

 

Hi, Well done, I think that there will be allot of people wishing you look. We have just joined and are so glad we did, as we thought that we were the only ones with a problem.

We are just at the stage of looking for a good solicitor (must be legally funded or no win no fee) we have been fighting with all bodies concerned in our insurance claim and in particular Cunningham Lindsey for, 4 years. Just to give you a snippet of what we have been through and as a direct result of there action (or inaction), our home has been repossessed (although not yet taken back), we have both suffered mental breakdowns and my husband has tried to take his own life (no less that 3 times). We have now decided we must take them on as we have nothing left to loose. If anyone knows of a good solicitor, who takes on cases such as ours in the North West of England please let us know.

[honeybee13]

Hi, Well done, I think that there will be allot of people wishing you look. We have just joined and are so glad we did, as we thought that we were the only ones with a problem.

We are just at the stage of looking for a good solicitor (must be legally funded or no win no fee) we have been fighting with all bodies concerned in our insurance claim and in particular Cunningham Lindsey for, 4 years. Just to give you a snippet of what we have been through and as a direct result of there action (or inaction), our home has been repossessed (although not yet taken back), we have both suffered mental breakdowns and my husband has tried to take his own life (no less that 3 times). We have now decided we must take them on as we have nothing left to loose. If anyone knows of a good solicitor, who takes on cases such as ours in the North West of England please let us know.

 

Hello there and welcome to CAG.

 

It's against site rules to recommend lawyers, I'm afraid. Please be very wary about anyone sending you a PM [personal message] offering advice, especially paying advice.

 

The Law Society website has a page where you can look up lawyers with the right expertise in your area.

 

My best, HB

[m2lou]

Many thanks for your reply. One has to be in this kind of situation to try and understand how stressful dealing with Cunningham Lindsay is. We have been fighting our case for nearly 2 years but only instructed a solicitor in October 2011. After spending £4,000 and getting nowhere due to Cunningham Lindsay's inaction we are expecting to have to issue proceedings next week. It is not going to be cheap, an estimated £15,000 which we have had to pay in advance, but for us now it is not about winning or losing it is more about taking on these bully-boys at their own game. All the emails and letters that we have sent which Cunningham Lindsay have denied ever receiving, thankfully were sent recorded delivery and we also have delivery notification for our emails. I hope we get a decent enough judge that will put them in their place. Even though we would prefer to keep our affairs private, we have been contacted by a freelance reporter who is very interested in our dilema, even to the extent of bringing into the equation a production company if this goes all the way to the High Court, so watch this space!

Edited February 1, 2012 by m2lou

[Conniff]

Welcome we are stressed. If you are thinking of no win no fee, have a read of this thread so you are aware of what to ask before you sign

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?336150-I-need-some-advice-over-no-win-no-fee&p=3701666#post3701666

[wearestressed]

Many thanks for your reply. One has to be in this kind of situation to try and understand how stressful dealing with Cunningham Lindsay is. We have been fighting our case for nearly 2 years but only instructed a solicitor in October 2011. After spending £4,000 and getting nowhere due to Cunningham Lindsay's inaction we are expecting to have to issue proceedings next week. It is not going to be cheap, an estimated £15,000 which we have had to pay in advance, but for us now it is not about winning or losing it is more about taking on these bully-boys at their own game. All the emails and letters that we have sent which Cunningham Lindsay have denied ever receiving, thankfully were sent recorded delivery and we also have delivery notification for our emails. I hope we get a decent enough judge that will put them in their place. Even though we would prefer to keep our affairs private, we have been contacted by a freelance reporter who is very interested in our dilema, even to the extent of bringing into the equation a production company if this goes all the way to the High Court, so watch this space!

 

Thank you for replying, I have never done anything on-line before, not even facebook?

I am so glad you are in the position to take on Cunningham Lindsey, and would be more than happy to furnish your freelance journalist with information. Please keep us informed, of your progress. I do not know how people contact each other off-line? or even if this is allowed? If it is OK, can you kind people at the ‘on line team’ let me know what to do if not please accept my thanks anyway.

M2lou, We wish you all the luck in the world.

[m2lou]

Thank you for your reply. Even though I believe our claims differ, the route of our problems seems to be mishandling of our claims through Cunningham Lindsay. Our claim refers to negligence of a UK based removal company to our home in Spain. Our consignment was insured with Fortis a dutch based insurance company with Reason Global as the broker. Cunningham Lindsay by way of mishandling the claim have left us in the position of not being able to purchase replacement components for our furniture. Unfortunately it is our removal company who we are taking to the High Court and not Cunningham Lindsay who are responsible for putting them in this position. As this has gone on for so long and the fact that I am retired I have been able to spend my days researching all the parties concerned. I am not aware of the details of your claim but prior to this I was an expert witness at 2 public inquiries and therefore aware of the procedures and the way to present evidence in court. I may be able to assist you in the way of guidance as I have researched the High Court procedures in presenting such a case. Additionally my son is a senior underwriter and is able to give guidance in relation to these matters. I have tried to place my email address but I do not have enough posts. The only alternative I have is to submit our postal address: [EDIT]. If you wish to contact me please enclose your email address/phone number and I will contact you immediately. I look forward to hearing from you.

Edited February 1, 2012 by honeybee13
Address removed as a precaution.

[Michael Browne]

m2lou, it's not a good idea to post personal details on a public forum. Suggest you edit your post and remove your address.

 

You can PM other users by clicking on their username in their posts and then click on Send Message.

[caro]

Thank you for your reply. Even though I believe our claims differ, the route of our problems seems to be mishandling of our claims through Cunningham Lindsay. Our claim refers to negligence of a UK based removal company to our home in Spain. Our consignment was insured with Fortis a dutch based insurance company with Reason Global as the broker. Cunningham Lindsay by way of mishandling the claim have left us in the position of not being able to purchase replacement components for our furniture. Unfortunately it is our removal company who we are taking to the High Court and not Cunningham Lindsay who are responsible for putting them in this position. As this has gone on for so long and the fact that I am retired I have been able to spend my days researching all the parties concerned. I am not aware of the details of your claim but prior to this I was an expert witness at 2 public inquiries and therefore aware of the procedures and the way to present evidence in court. I may be able to assist you in the way of guidance as I have researched the High Court procedures in presenting such a case. Additionally my son is a senior underwriter and is able to give guidance in relation to these matters. I have tried to place my email address but I do not have enough posts. The only alternative I have is to submit our postal address: [EDIT]. If you wish to contact me please enclose your email address/phone number and I will contact you immediately. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

The way this site works is to share information on threads. By doing that you could well be helping more than one person, and others can also contribute their ideas and support. It also ensures that people aren't given bad advice, no matter how well intentioned.

[m2lou]

We thank everybody for your replies and support. Today 27th March 2012 we have settled our claim with our insurers. Unfortunately we have had to accept a gagging order in final settlement and therefore cannot disclose anymore details in relation to our claim, but I would add to anyone who has problems with Cunningham Lindsey to use this forum. They are definitely aware of what is said and it proves that if you are prepared to take these bully boys on you can ultimately be successful. I wish you all well. Get a good solicitor and they will definitely back off, they do not want bad publicity due to being commissioned by our present Governnment into settling the London riot claims.

M2lou

[caro]

I'm really pleased that this has been resolved to your satisfaction, even though it has taken over 2 years!!!. I hope they paid a good price for your silence!

 

I've changed the thread title to show your win so that anyone else with problems in the future will be able see that with perseverence they can win against LC.