Caught using someone else's Freedom pass, convicted - leave to appeal granted

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I hope the transport guys will be able to get here later, as and when their day jobs permit.

 

Not sure about the length of time they keep the cctv for, if they even have any in the first place.

I think I can add a couple of comments here. cctv is usually kept for 8 weeks I believe and I think it's highly likely they will have that. I don't know if they will mention the other journeys in court or not, but you're saying there is a history of using this card?

 

It's possible that this ticket guy won't even appear to give evidence, even if he is called.

 

Old-CodJA said earlier that he would be called if there is a plea of not guilty.

 

I don't rate your chances of getting a teaching job if you've got a conviction for this, let alone shop work or anything dealing with money.

 

I can't get my head round the criminal record part of it, but the guys will know. Sorry if you've already said, but which law or byelaw are you being charged under please?

 

HB

[sailor sam]

Yeah I guess I might as well plead not guilty.

 

I have looked into solicitors and most of them say that they will make very little difference in the court process as the crime is pretty clear cut and simple.

 

Sorry about the chavs comments I just didn't want to be labelled a lie about, since I was making an effort with my life and hopefully being a primary school teacher.

 

The problem I have is they can prove 100% I did it. I admitted that I did use the freedom pass and they printed off like the last 10 journey I made with the card. I was caught red handed by the ticket inspector

 

So a not guilty plea seems a bit pointless to be honest.

 

Does anyone know a rough amount of the fine? if pleading guilty or not guilty?

 

Thanks

 

Proves my point earlier. OP has been using the card AT LEAST 10 previous times. Inspector did his job well here it seems, otherwise I wonder how many more times the OP would of carried on using it. Guilty is the only plea as I see it.

[iambilly]

Not sure about the length of time they keep the cctv for, if they even have any in the first place.

 

How can they prove you admitted it to the ticket guy?

 

The trouble is you know what has really been going on and they've only "caught" you the once.

 

Don't think there is any need to think about the previous times as these not mentioned.

 

Surely they're not going to be looking into that?

 

It's up to you what you do, get a conviction admitting your guilt or hope you get not guilty down the line.

 

It's possible that this ticket guy won't even appear to give evidence, even if he is called.

 

Back in January i had to go to court as a witness and the other witnesses didn't turn up. The case was rescheduled and then 2 other witnesses refused to turn up, so the case was dropped.

 

It's a bit of a gamble what you go for.

 

What are people advising you?

 

Don't you know any law students you could turn to for advice?

 

I don't rate your chances of getting a teaching job if you've got a conviction for this, let alone shop work or anything dealing with money.

 

They have a transcript of what was said between me and the ticket inspector which I stupidly signed to say I agreed with what was written down.

 

Were the witnesses that did not turn up the ticket inspectors?

 

I am going round a barrister’s house tonight to get my last bit of help before I have to send off my plea tomorrow morning, he is a friend so it is free of charge and he seems to his stuff.

 

The only advice I am getting is from here and it is pretty spilt.

 

Yeah no one wants someone with a criminal conviction.

 

Guilty or not guilty I am so stuck on what to choose.

[BazzaS]

I can't get my head round the criminal record part of it, but the guys will know. Sorry if you've already said, but which law or byelaw are you being charged under please?

 

HB

 

Sounds like 5.3 of RRA 1889 (as amended) if the allegation is "intent to avoid"

(rather than the 'strict liability' "failed to show, on demand" ) ......

 

From : http://www.merseyrail.org/about-us/prosecutions.html

 

Q:Will I get a criminal record?

A: If found guilty of a Byelaw offence, it may appear on an enhanced CRB CHECK but if you are found guilty of a Railway regulation act 1889 section 5 offence, then this would show up on any CRB CHECK. If you pay the administrative penalty, this will enable us to withdraw your case from court, and consequently you will have no CRB RECORD.

 

 

*Edited for typo, had posted RRA 1885, is in fact RRA 1889, as per the Merseyrail text.

Edited July 2, 2012 by BazzaS

[iambilly]

Proves my point earlier. OP has been using the card AT LEAST 10 previous times. Inspector did his job well here it seems, otherwise I wonder how many more times the OP would of carried on using it. Guilty is the only plea as I see it.

 

Most of these journey was my sister I have used it like 10 times overall just to go to university. Most of the journeys are my sisters.

[iambilly]

Hello again.

 

I hope the transport guys will be able to get here later, as and when their day jobs permit.

 

Not sure about the length of time they keep the cctv for, if they even have any in the first place.

I think I can add a couple of comments here. cctv is usually kept for 8 weeks I believe and I think it's highly likely they will have that. I don't know if they will mention the other journeys in court or not, but you're saying there is a history of using this card?

 

It's possible that this ticket guy won't even appear to give evidence, even if he is called.

 

Old-CodJA said earlier that he would be called if there is a plea of not guilty.

 

I don't rate your chances of getting a teaching job if you've got a conviction for this, let alone shop work or anything dealing with money.

 

I can't get my head round the criminal record part of it, but the guys will know. Sorry if you've already said, but which law or byelaw are you being charged under please?

 

HB

 

They print off the history for everycard they take out of the 10 journeys shown I had only used to card for that one of them the most recent one. The rest was my sisters. She uses 99% of the time I have used it like 4/5 times

[honeybee13]

Most of these journey was my sister I have used it like 10 times overall just to go to university. Most of the journeys are my sisters.

 

[iambilly]

Sounds like 5.3 of RRA 1885 (as amended) if the allegation is "intent to avoid"

(rather than the 'strict liability' "failed to show, on demand" ) ......

 

It is s.5(3) (a) of the regualtions of railways act 1889 as amended bty section 84 (2) of the transport act 1962 and section 18 of the British railways act 1970.

[sailor sam]

Most of these journey was my sister I have used it like 10 times overall just to go to university. Most of the journeys are my sisters.

 

Exactly how old is your sister then?

[BazzaS]

They have a transcript of what was said between me and the

ticket inspector which I stupidly signed to say I agreed with what was written down.

Why was it stupid to sign it if it was an accurate record?

 

Are you now saying it wasn't an accurate record?

If you hadn't of signed it the RPI would have documented your refusal.

If they were working with a colleague who heard the exchange, they might then have counter-signed.

If the documentation was in error, you should have asked them to document the amendments, and then signed when it was a true and accurate recording.

 

Most of these journey was my sister I have used it like 10 times overall just to go to university. Most of the journeys are my sisters.

 

They print off the history for everycard they take out of the 10 journeys shown I had only used to card for that one of them the most recent one. The rest was my sisters. She uses 99% of the time I have used it like 4/5 times

 

Sister's card. Some of your posts said gran's card, some a friends card.

 

Used "4/5 times". Used "like 10 times".

 

Considering pleading not guilty when you admit you were guilty.

I'm not sure that you'll persuade us the RPI's statement is erroneous : who appears to be the one with (deliberate?) issues with accurate recall?

 

This is my first ever offence and I am currently at university and hopefully will become a primary school teacher*

and I am sure this will do fair amount of damage to my future prospects.*

*

 

So, for "first ever offence" we should read "first time I got caught", since it wasn't your first offence, it was the 4th/5th .... Or was it the 10th ..... Or ????

*

The great thing about the truth is that you only have to remember the one version, not which version you posted, where.

Edited July 2, 2012 by BazzaS

[sallypotter]

Oh dear!

 

I asked before i'm sure if you signed something and the answer was no.

 

Now it's yes.

 

See what your barrister friend says.

 

And get back and let us know.........

[iambilly]

My sister is 17, not sure how that helps

[BazzaS]

My sister is 17, not sure how that helps

 

I'm not sure what difference it makes either, but why don't we establish how old your gran and friend are, and how many times you misused the pass, just in case the figures change again ........

[honeybee13]

The great thing about the truth is that you only have to remember the one version, not which version you posted, where.

 

That's one of my favourite sayings, Bazza. Tell the truth, there's less to remember.

 

HB

[iambilly]

I explained I changed the name of the freedom pass card user to help not get me into more trouble.

 

I don't know how many times I have used it under 10 and above 5. It doesn't matter

 

The ticket inspector was intimidating my friend was with me saw how he was from a distance I was just saying yes to everything to make it over. I don't get into these situations a lot and I was petrified.

 

He also lied by saying it was just a warning and would not go any further. I would have checked the statement better if I thought it would go further.

 

He also lied and said it was a random search when it was later revealed in my court summons letter that they are targeting freedom pass users.

 

He also took my national insurance card and if I had not remembered and asked for it back he would have kept it.

 

He also did not tell me that I did not have to stay with him at any time in the talk, which is part of standard procedure.

 

Combing all of these issues it is not that hard to beleive that he was not being the most professional working on that day.

[Grotesque]

This is all getting slightly surreal.

 

I'm starting to think that iambilly is a mystery shopper sent here by the site owners

[iambilly]

I explained the slight deviations from the truth as I thought it might help me

[iambilly]

I am definitely not I will be in court in 3 days!

[BazzaS]

I explained I changed the name of the freedom pass card user to help not get me into more trouble.

 

I don't know how many times I have used it under 10 and above 5. It doesn't matter

 

The ticket inspector was intimidating my friend was with me saw how he was from a distance I was just saying yes to everything to make it over. I don't get into these situations a lot and I was petrified.

 

He also lied by saying it was just a warning and would not go any further. I would have checked the statement better if I thought it would go further.

 

He also lied and said it was a random search when it was later revealed in my court summons letter that they are targeting freedom pass users.

 

He also took my national insurance card and if I had not remembered and asked for it back he would have kept it.

 

He also did not tell me that I did not have to stay with him at any time in the talk, which is part of standard procedure.

 

Combing all of these issues it is not that hard to beleive that he was not being the most professional working on that day.

 

Yet, despite his "unprofessionalism" (or, at least your belief he wasn't professional), he seems to have got you bang to rights .....

 

Is it possible that potential responders here might be influenced by your "economy with the truth", not just as to whose pass it was, but claims of "first offence" and all the other changing details?

[iambilly]

Believe me it is the first time anything like this has happened to me, I would like it if you would stop focusing on the the little unimportant lies have I have told (which I now regret),

 

And just offer me some support and advice. I am really scared this is my whole future I am dealing with over a stupid mistake.

[honeybee13]

If I may, Billy, I would like to say that as I understand it, majoring on the behaviour of the member of staff on the day is unlikely to do you any favours.

 

Hopefully someone like OC who is in court a lot will comment, but I can't remember a single case here when the OP wrote and told the TOC its or its staff member's failings that ended happily and I think the mags may see it the same way.

 

I would say the thing to concentrate on is any mitigating circumstances you can find. Maybe your barrister friend will have some ideas.

 

It would be interesting to know if TfL are likely to bring up the Freedom Pass's history if anyone knows.

 

HB

[Grotesque]

Believe me it is the first time anything like this has happened to me, I would like it if you would stop focusing on the the little unimportant lies have I have told (which I now regret),

 

And just offer me some support and advice. I am really scared this is my whole future I am dealing with over a stupid mistake.

 

Bearing in mind the attitude of the Site Team, this iis an easy ride!!! LOL check it...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356327-Authority-to-travel-question-for-the-experts.&p=3893384&viewfull=1#post3893384

[sallypotter]

You made a mistake hoping that by agreeing, things would be over quicker.

 

You are obviously very young and inexperienced.

 

People agree to all manner with the police to get things over and done with but it is never the case.

 

At least learn from this.

 

Your barrister friend is the best bet, shame he/she can't go and represent you.

[iambilly]

If I may, Billy, I would like to say that as I understand it, majoring on the behaviour of the member of staff on the day is unlikely to do you any favours.

 

Hopefully someone like OC who is in court a lot will comment, but I can't remember a single case here when the OP wrote and told the TOC its or its staff member's failings that ended happily and I think the mags may see it the same way.

 

I would say the thing to concentrate on is any mitigating circumstances you can find. Maybe your barrister friend will have some ideas.

 

It would be interesting to know if TfL are likely to bring up the Freedom Pass's history if anyone knows.

 

HB

 

That is mitigating circumstances, I was intimated and lied to which made me agree to everything.

[iambilly]

You made a mistake hoping that by agreeing, things would be over quicker.

 

You are obviously very young and inexperienced.

 

People agree to all manner with the police to get things over and done with but it is never the case.

 

At least learn from this.

 

Your barrister friend is the best bet, shame he/she can't go and represent you.

 

Yeah it was a massive mistake, but hopefully he can help?

 

Why couldn't he represent me?