Caught using someone else's Freedom pass, convicted - leave to appeal granted

[Old-CodJA]

I'm reminded of the phrase commonly used by a one-time deputy leader of the Labour party and one of the most influential politicians of the second half of the twentieth century.

 

Prompted by comic Mike Yarwood, the then Denis Healey MP, now Lord Healey, frequently used the descriptive phrase "SILLY BILLY" in expressing contempt for acts of stupidity by others

 

The phrase originates from a nickname given to King William IV who is described as 'the weak and not very bright uncle of King George III, because of his embarrassing antics in court'.

 

Never does that phrase have seemed more appropriate than now.

[sailor sam]

I can give the reason that the legal aid was refused. The legal services commission will only consider genuine cases which have a chance of success. It's public money after all and also means tested. So if you come from a wealthy back ground then you will have no chance but of course a half decent solicitor would of told you this. You would only be able to appeal against a conviction if there is a point of law argument available so even if you get the sentence reduced, the conviction is never going to go away. You would have to show and prove that there were failures in the correct procedures in the original proceedings to appeal the conviction and from the 22 odd pages of this thread, not once have you given any valid reason that was the case. It is because of your own stupidity that you are in this situation (and perhaps that of your 'barrister friend).

 

As I think I pointed out earlier, my 8 year old son would of successfully prosecuted you given the inaccuracies of your versions of events.

 

To the site team; We now have the outcome (which most of us were expecting and could see many pages ago), so can we now close this stupid, ridiculous thread permanently.

[The Urbanite]

Hi everyone.

 

Went to crown court today, my lawyer guy backed out the night before as my legal aid got rejected for some reason. So I had to represent myself.

 

Basically I was told couldn't appeal the conviction only sentence, spoke to the barrister of TFL and she was helpful told me I may be able to get the the my criminal record conditionally discharged if I am lucky.

 

Anyway after talking in court they decided that they would change nothing about my sentence.

 

The TFL side tried to make me pay £700 costs but the judge rejected that, so I didn't have to pay anything.

 

Anyway since my lawyer guy backed out the day before leaving me no time to get a replacement and me to stand for myself I will be trying to appeal this decision as I feel I was unable to get my point across due to crippling anxiety and nervousness.

 

Anyway for this reason I will be appealing my sentence again as I feel it was slightly unfair.

 

If that fails then I will be sending my appeal to the criminal case review commission to see if they think they can help.

 

I know I will get a lot of stick for this but it is my life and I should be able to appeal as much as I want to and I still genuinely believe that I have been misfortunate in these situation and deserve another chance.

 

Thank you for your help

 

Hi,

 

You are going to have at least one criminal record for the rest of your life. Even when it is spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, there are still career paths which are exempt from that, so you may still be required to declare it.

 

You may be wealthy, but that criminal conviction is a permanent stain on your record. This is what happens when you decide to use a Freedom Pass that you are not entitled to. It's not something that can be done accidentally - I live with someone that has a Freedom Pass and it has never once crossed my mind to ask to borrow it, so I can't imagine what was going through yours when you did.

 

You did something wrong. You've been taught the hard way that you can't simply buy your way out of trouble, but don't seem to have learnt anything. You have no defence, no sympathy and no case. Man up, accept the punishment, learn from the experience and move on.

Edited September 7, 2012 by The Urbanite

[iambilly]

I will be appealing the decision again as I feel it was slightly unfair again.

 

Doesn't everyone have the right to a fair trial or something?

 

The costs (£700) were no where near £5000 -£10,000 as some of you were saying it could be?

 

I will be appealing because of my anxiety resulting in a lack of clarity (caused by my legal aid lawyer backing out because my aid was rejected) caused I beleive some confusion in the court.

 

The Judge and two magistrates where solely focussed on trying to change the fine, which I couldn't care less about.

 

I will send of the appeal and hopefully it will get accepted.

 

I would like to be able to let you guys know if it get accepted and the results of it when they arrive.

[BazzaS]

Hi,

 

You may be wealthy, but that criminal conviction is a permanent stain on your record. This is what happens when you decide to use a Freedom Pass that you are not entitled to. It's not something that can be done accidentally - I live with someone that has a Freedom Pass and it has never once crossed my mind to ask to borrow it, so I can't imagine what was going through yours when you did.

 

But, wait.

 

See, after reading comments here, billy changed his story (well, only once, maybe twice, or actually - so many times I lost count)

 

(Perhaps due to his super-rich background), Billy's des-res is positively littered with identitical black plastic cases (just the right size, of course)

 

And the Freedom pass monster has taken his sister's Freedom Pass from its case, and put it in one of the black cases.

 

And the (non-freedom, Oystercard) pass monster has taken Billy's Oystercard from its case, and put it in one of the identitical cases.

 

Billy has then (purely by chance, since he didn't check the cases) picked up 2 cases out of the many littering his home and they, by a fluke, were the one's containing his Oystercard and his sister's Freedom pass.

 

Then (again without checking) he "accidentally" used the wrong one. Once. Well, maybe twice. Hey, wait, they can check the records : maybe 10 times.

 

Wait again! They've only charged him with the one use, so:

OK, it was just the once (well, one journey, but on both bus & tube) where he was so unfortunate as to be caught by an RPI who was so unprofessional as to use Vulcan mind-merge technology to get billy to actually state the truth!

 

 

Then he appealed, and although he didn't succeed in ANY part of his appeal, he "didn't have to pay anything" !

 

And then (if you are old enough to remember "Dallas" the first time round) we all woke up, and we can't work out which bits are dream, which reality, and which Billy's lies, except : Reality / Actuality :

a) here we are 22 pages later,

b) Billy still has a criminal conviction, and STILL no insight.

Edited September 7, 2012 by BazzaS

[Nystagmite]

Erm, what exactly is Billy appealing against? You pleaded guilty. I am sure you can only appeal on a point of law and not because you don't like the decision. What point of law are you appealing against?

Edited September 7, 2012 by Nystagmite

[honeybee13]

Erm, what exactly is Billy appealing against? You pleaded guilty. I am sure you can only appeal on a point of law and not because you don't like the decision. What point of law are you appealing against?

 

You might well ask, Nystagmite.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

I will be appealing the decision again as I feel it was slightly unfair again.

 

Doesn't everyone have the right to a fair trial or something?

 

The costs (£700) were no where near £5000 -£10,000 as some of you were saying it could be?

 

I will be appealing because of my anxiety resulting in a lack of clarity (caused by my legal aid lawyer backing out because my aid was rejected) caused I beleive some confusion in the court.

 

The Judge and two magistrates where solely focussed on trying to change the fine, which I couldn't care less about.

 

I will send of the appeal and hopefully it will get accepted.

 

I would like to be able to let you guys know if it get accepted and the results of it when they arrive.

 

So, you DID have to pay an appeal fee, rather than not having to "pay anything" : so you are still being caught out on the little ( and big!) inaccuracies. Has accuracy / honesty always been a stranger to you? Have you always felt "better / more worthy" than 'the common man'?

 

If so I can see why you might (wrongly) think you were entitled to fare dodge, and how getting caught and treated just like anyone else must REALLY grate .....

 

Perhaps your issues with truth / accuracy / honesty are recent. Who knows if the fare dodging was the start of this, or maybe just the first sign or first time you really got caught ....

 

You can't appeal on grounds "you feel it was slightly unfair"

You've had your trial, and your Crown Court appeal, and frankly, they don't care what "you feel".

Every does have the right to a fair trial, and you've had yours, and your appeal.

 

Because you've not taken them seriously, and not managed your case with good legal advice (and ignored the good advice here) : you are left with a result you don't like / want. That doesn't make it unfair.

 

YOUR lack of clarity / understanding doesn't mean the Court was confused. I suspect the Court was clear in itself, but you just don't want to accept that : You plead guilty - you can't appeal the conviction based on the flimsy reasoning you have advanced.

 

The letter from the Court that you posted showed that the Court was looking at an appeal against sentence (only). It was entirely clear & unambiguous. You yourself acknowledged that point.

 

Why on earth would you delude yourself it was ever going to be about the conviction merely because that is what you hope it would be?.

 

Has nothing in the replies / advice here 'sunk in '?

Apparently not.

 

So go ahead : whine and cry, launch pointless appeals claiming unfairness.

 

My prediction : more costs for you (even if you fib and avoid mentioning them), and more people laughing at your inability to understand that the legal system doesn't bend to fit your whim.

 

You get treated the same as everyone else .... Or at least as a result of your fare-dodging and conviction : you now get treated like every other person with a criminal conviction.

[Ganymede]

I will be appealing the decision again as I feel it was slightly unfair again.

 

Doesn't everyone have the right to a fair trial or something?

 

The costs (£700) were no where near £5000 -£10,000 as some of you were saying it could be?

 

I will be appealing because of my anxiety resulting in a lack of clarity (caused by my legal aid lawyer backing out because my aid was rejected) caused I beleive some confusion in the court.

 

The Judge and two magistrates where solely focussed on trying to change the fine, which I couldn't care less about.

 

I will send of the appeal and hopefully it will get accepted.

 

I would like to be able to let you guys know if it get accepted and the results of it when they arrive.

 

 

 

Sorry to jump in but I have read this ridiculous thread and can't believe it has gone this far.

 

Just because you think it's "slightly unfair" does not mean that you have any further right to appeal and I will be amazed if one is granted.

 

Do you have any actual grounds for appeal?! From what I have read in this thread I would suggest the answer is no!

[BazzaS]

 

My lawyer letting me down on that last day was pretty unacceptable and will be the main reason for my next appeal.

 

Don't you mean that you didn't arrange your legal aid application in good time, and when it was (justifiably) knocked back you didn't offer to pay your solicitor?

 

Where were your (claimed) super-rich family, so profligate of their wealth that you'll never have to work?

Why did you leave it so late? That isn't down to your solicitor : it is down to you.

 

Your solicitor didn't let you down .... You let yourself down (again).

If blaming your solicitor for your errors is the main basis for your appeal ... I predict it is going nowhere.

 

Have you looked at the CCRC website?. Do you have any idea on what basis your appeal to them will be made?

 

If it is one or more of:

a) "I pleaded guilty but I'm not, really" without other special reason,

b) "I'm a special person, not a Chav, so they shouldn't have prosecuted me"

c) "The RPI told me it wouldn't be prosecuted" / "I was anxious so I said I was a fare dodger but I'm not now I've looked up what else I might have said",

d) "The prosecutor laughed at me" (They aren't the only ones), and

e) I thought it would be simple, and didn't avail myself of formal legal advice in time" (Turns out you are the one who is 'simple'!)

If it is one of these : why bother wasting a stamp?

[colony]

Let us know what happens iambilly. I long to see the word "SETTLED" after the post title. At least at the end of all this, you've learned a valuable lesson- don't plead guilty unless you're willing to accept what goes along with it! Don't you watch telly??!

[firstclassx]

I thought this thread was locked!

[MrHat]

The fishing expedition goes on.....

[Old-CodJA]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..uh!! Oh! Billy again..... I thought it was something important..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snore zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[markl1987]

I've seen this thread and often considered reading the 22 pages but having seen OC and FC's comments here I now know I need not bother

[firstclassx]

I've seen this thread and often considered reading the 22 pages but having seen OC and FC's comments here I now know I need not bother

 

It's actually quite a good insight into the power of self denial.

[Old-CodJA]

Very true.