5 month old grandson given wrong medication

[**Tilly**]

Hiya Termi

Just this minute got of the phone to the practice Manager..again was told they are independant and the surgery doesn't employ the staff,asked what their

policy was for complaints,he asked what the complaint was about got as far as wrong meds didn't have to go any further,ah yes his mum has been in and

complained,and a letter was sent out (me) yes and a complaint has gone in the GPC response was errrm oh right ok if you could send me a copy of the

complaint as we like to follow and keep track of any complaint,er you just told me you have nothing to do with pharmacy to be honest i would have got more sense out of a 4 year old lol

 

So complaints form sent, they now have 5 days to send a formal reply

 

one more thing 7.5mls was ten times the intended dose

[Night Owl]

Words fail me Tilly, but well done.

They must be held to account for this terrible mistake and their practice must be improved to maintain patient safety at all times.

[determindator]

Moving on from the surgery then, have a look at http://www.northamptonshire.nhs.uk. To make a complaint, and for advice and support in doing so ring 08005870879, email advice@northants.nhs.uk. Advise you have spoken to the surgery who are not guiding you in this. They will be the Primary Care Trust as far as I can see, to which your surgery belongs too.

Edited June 28, 2011 by determindator

[terriersaregreat]

I think a four year old would have been absolutely truthful and definately have more sense.

 

To cheer you up - I'm having to do the nursey run for my 3 1/2 year old grandson from nursery, still waiting for his mum's operation. Took him to a local garden centre today for some seeds to grow lettuce and enjoy the plants.

 

A lovely lady started to talk to him. She said, "How old are you?" He responded three and a half years old. (actual words)Lady said, "when will you be four?" He answered, "after three." Lady responded, "well you're quite right".

 

Our grandchildren are very precious in fact all children are precious, they are our future.

[**Tilly**]

I think a four year old would have been absolutely truthful and definately have more sense.

 

To cheer you up - I'm having to do the nursey run for my 3 1/2 year old grandson from nursery, still waiting for his mum's operation. Took him to a local garden centre today for some seeds to grow lettuce and enjoy the plants.

 

 

 

A lovely lady started to talk to him. She said, "How old are you?" He responded three and a half years old. (actual words)Lady said, "when will you be four?" He answered, "after three." Lady responded, "well you're quite right".

 

Our grandchildren are very precious in fact all children are precious, they are our future.

 

Love it Tags that made me chuckle thank you.....straight out of the mouths of babes, they would get you hung with some things they come out with but you have got to love em:-)

 

and yes your right all children are precious....no doubt everybody thinks the same but if anyone upsets mine or hurts them they have me to deal with no matter how old they are!!!

[**Tilly**]

Just another thing that has come to light...

 

In all uses, Trifluoperazine is NOT licensed to be used in under 3 year olds, and no data is held on use on children under this age.

 

so in my book they have broken the license..just gets better.

[terriersaregreat]

Well tracked Tilly, now WHACK them!

love from another protective mum/grandmother x

[zippygbr]

 

so in my book they have broken the license..just gets better.

 

 

there is no prohibition on the use of a medication outside the licence terms, all it does is place a greater responsibility on the prescriber .

 

an awful lot of medication is unlicenced when used in Children

[terriersaregreat]

zippygbr - are we talking pallative care? Think your wires are crossed the doctor did not make a decision to use the medication. The medication was wrongly dispensed, think Tilly was suggesting that the situation is worse because the medication dispensed should not be used in that age group never mind the amount or the fact that it had not been prescribed!

[determindator]

there is no prohibition on the use of a medication outside the licence terms, all it does is place a greater responsibility on the prescriber .

 

an awful lot of medication is unlicenced when used in Children

 

Why do I think I've been here before? Explain yourself please

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I hope I've kept up with the thread here.

 

I respect Zippy, but as a non medical person, I really struggle with someone of any age being given an anti-schizophrenia drug for a kidney problem.

 

To my simple brain, it doesn't compute.

 

My best, HB

[Night Owl]

there is no prohibition on the use of a medication outside the licence terms, all it does is place a greater responsibility on the prescriber .

 

an awful lot of medication is unlicenced when used in Children

 

I agree with zippy here. Yes there are medicines that are unlicenced for use with children but are given for their effectiveness and are monitored.

[Night Owl]

Hello again. I hope I've kept up with the thread here.

 

I respect Zippy, but as a non medical person, I really struggle with someone of any age being given an anti-schizophrenia drug for a kidney problem.

 

To my simple brain, it doesn't compute.

 

My best, HB

 

The fact is that an incorrect medication was given to the patient is a seperate issue.This medication should never be given to a child.

[johnnymitch]

well pointed out Night owl ...

 

In which case it was given without even monitoring being considered ...i.e . negligently ... had it been monitored , and properly checked , someone would have realised it was the wrong stuff ..

[honeybee13]

Hello again Tilly. This is all a bit over my head now, but I shall follow your thread and hope that justice prevails. You're getting great advice here.

 

My very best to you and your family.

 

HB xx

[zippygbr]

zippygbr - are we talking pallative care? Think your wires are crossed the doctor did not make a decision to use the medication. The medication was wrongly dispensed, think Tilly was suggesting that the situation is worse because the medication dispensed should not be used in that age group never mind the amount or the fact that it had not been prescribed!

 

Why do I think I've been here before? Explain yourself please

 

the fact a medication has a licence or not is irrelevant to the discussion of the issue at stake here.

 

if the medication dispensed had been correctly prescribed in that scenario - i.e. 'off label' - it's a licenced medication used for a patient group or indication outside the licence no laws had been broken , there is however a greater responsibility on behalf of the prescriber.

 

even if a medication has no licence - which is suprisingly common with specialised medications or common medications in specialised presentations ( especially strong or weak strengths, liquids where there is no commercially manufactured liquid form, enema sor suppositories where there is no commercially manufacturered version) then no laws are broken if a valid prescription is in existence.

 

Consequently the absence of a licence for patients i nthe age group in the initial scenario has no little or no relevance to the 'legality' of the situation. it does not change the culpability of which ever member of the healthcare team made the error, whether it is the prescriber or a member of the pharmacy staff.

 

The reason that many drugs when given to children are off label or unlicenced is the difficulties in getting sufficient testing data from patients in that age group and certain forms of medicines testing can't be done with child subjects as the children themselves cannot consent to the testing.

[**Tilly**]

Zippy like you say this is not the issue here,it was wrongly prescribed the dosage was 10 times over the prescribed dosage.

 

Maybe if i explain to you the full picture then maybe you will understand why my family and i want answers and prevent it happening again hopefully,not just to my family but to others.

 

When my grandson was 4 weeks old he under went surgery twice the first lasting 2 hours the 2nd 5hours also contracting meningitis whilst in hospital had to endure 2 lumber puncuctures he was drips and alsorts,he was a very poorly little boy now with of the stress of that and they still have i might add this happens..If you have children or grandchildren

i really hope you or your family never have to go through the same.They are not out to get compensation they just want answers etc.

 

will come back on the thread when i have more to update.

[caro]

the fact a medication has a licence or not is irrelevant to the discussion of the issue at stake here.

 

if the medication dispensed had been correctly prescribed in that scenario - i.e. 'off label' - it's a licenced medication used for a patient group or indication outside the licence no laws had been broken , there is however a greater responsibility on behalf of the prescriber.

 

In this case of course it was either incorrectly prescribed or incorrectly dispensed, so whoever is responsible needs to take responsibility for causing an already ill infant to end up in hospital. If the script was wrong the pharmacist should have picked up that a strong dose of an inappropriate drug was being dispensed. Whoever checked it should also have picked it up - if it was checked. If not checked - why not?

 

even if a medication has no licence - which is suprisingly common with specialised medications or common medications in specialised presentations ( especially strong or weak strengths, liquids where there is no commercially manufactured liquid form, enema sor suppositories where there is no commercially manufacturered version) then no laws are broken if a valid prescription is in existence.

 

If the prescription was wrong it surely cannot be valid. If it was misread surely it should have caused alarm bells to ring when seeing the age of the patient and the unsafe dosage.

 

Consequently the absence of a licence for patients i nthe age group in the initial scenario has no little or no relevance to the 'legality' of the situation. it does not change the culpability of which ever member of the healthcare team made the error, whether it is the prescriber or a member of the pharmacy staff.

 

Exactly.

 

The reason that many drugs when given to children are off label or unlicenced is the difficulties in getting sufficient testing data from patients in that age group and certain forms of medicines testing can't be done with child subjects as the children themselves cannot consent to the testing.

 

Neither can they consent to any medical treatment without the parent or guardian's consent afaik, and I would expect them (the parents or guardians) to be made aware of all the facts in order to make an informed decision about what is best for their child.

 

In this case of course what is relevant is that a mistake was made and steps should be taken as a matter of urgency to make sure that no more lives are put at risk by such negligence and incompetence.

 

As for monetary issues, I don't think anyone is worried about money at this stage, unless of course the poor little mite suffers long-term health problems which necessitate special care or needs. I hope to goodness it doesn't come to that.

 

When the more urgent practicalities are dealt with I don't think that a claim for expenses incurred such as travel and loss of earnings would be out of order. Having a baby is expensive enough without this, and speaking personally I don't think compensation would be out of order either.

I hope your grandson's health continues to improve and this hasn't set him back too far Tilly.

[terriersaregreat]

Well said Caro, this thread is about a negligent pharmacist has nothing to do with a prescribed medication.

 

Perhaps Zippygbr should have started a new thread to bring to the attention of the public that unlicensed drugs are being prescribed for children. There would be many reasons for this action e.g.terminally ill children where any hope of a cure is important. That debate would be interesting and helpful.

 

In the meantime Tilly's grandson and family have suffered enough without this dreadful mistake. The little baby must be such a fighter and the family don't need this further complication to contend with.

 

Anyone who has a child with long term health problems, and unfortunately there are many, understands the stress. Everything else stands still and is relative. Good luck Tilly and family and stay strong.

TAGx

[zippygbr]

the licence status or otherwise of the medication that was dispensed is irrelevant in this scenario, bringing it in as a fact of 'greater' guilt is irrelevant.

 

the fact remains that the wrong medication was supplied , there are 2 places in the chain that this could have happened

 

1. the wrong medication appeared on the prescription

 

2. the wrong medication was selected , labelled and dispensed by the Pharmacist or a dispenser/ pharmacy tech and not picked up at the check.

 

the only time at which what exactly the wrong medication was is relevant is IF lasting harm was caused - when the nature and extent of the lasting harm would have impact on any Damages paid - to reflect additional care needs.

[terriersaregreat]

zippygbr- you know you really should read the posts properly. On this occasion you appear to be yet again hijacking a simple problem NEGLIGENCE. Don't think anyone has got as far as compensation.

 

On that score how long is the rocky road down the personal injury, negligence, causation scenario?

 

People make mistakes they must learn from their mistakes. If a person is injured along the way they must be compensated. do you agree with that?

 

I don't mind entering into sensible, LOGICAL, debate exchanging views that are relevant and useful but must warn you that I for one will not be drawn into your historical examples of argument.

 

My genuine concerns are for Tilly's grandson and family. Think we were all avoiding the long term argument deliberately.

[**Tilly**]

Hi Caro and TAGS

 

Once again thank you for your support x

 

Zippy like TAGS says please read previous posts, please don't spoil for an argument on this thread.

[**Tilly**]

Moving on as promised...update

 

My son and his OH have recieved a letter yesterday from the GPC....they have requested a home visit for a meeting on Wednesday so hopefully things are starting to move along goes without saying i will be there

[Nystagmite]

Hope it all goes well.

[MARTIN3030]

"Perhaps Zippygbr should have started a new thread to bring to the attention of the public that unlicensed drugs are being prescribed for children."

 

Good idea,clearly the offerings of Zippygbr,are at best, insensitive and unwelcome on this thread.