Ingeus

[Nystagmite]

When faced with disability, long term sickness, and mental health issues, WP providers are like rabbits caught in the headlights, the providers do not possess the basic career advice skills to deal with mainstream job seekers, let alone anyone on WRAG.

 

Agreed. I did say to the manager when I emailed him, that his company need disability awareness training; not accusing people of lying about their disabilities and deciding they know more than the disabled person.

 

There is a notice up near my adviser's desk, which say their aim is to help disabled people back into work. How can they if they're refusing to make basic reasonable adjustments?

[debt4get]

they will pay lip service to helping disabled people into work..but that is about as far as it will go.....they are already failing badly and not even close to reaching their targets of 5.2% of people back into long term sustainable employment...it is currently running at about 3% this means that they are in serious trouble and hopefully in trouble financially..but have a feeling when the official figures are eventually published it will be blamed on the claimants for 'not trying hard enough' hence the recent announcement by w2w that even more people should be sanctioned....the anger is mounting....

[speedfreek]

Agreed. I did say to the manager when I emailed him, that his company need disability awareness training; not accusing people of lying about their disabilities and deciding they know more than the disabled person.

 

There is a notice up near my adviser's desk, which say their aim is to help disabled people back into work. How can they if they're refusing to make basic reasonable adjustments?

 

This is the crux of the matter and also how I think the 1st successful disabled challenges to ESA (not just ESA with the work program) will come. They will be brought under Health and Safety act 1974, The Employment Act 2010 and then the Disability Discrimination Act (if it still exists).

 

Those are the acts by the DWP's own admission everybody on the Work Program is covered by.

 

The WCA is a benefits decision and is only valid and legal within the regulations for that benefits decision. Once that's used outside that benefits decision it then becomes an opinion and opinions can be challenged legally.

 

If due to inaction by a WP provider you become injured or your condition worsens this then (if you've followed procedure and requested adjustments etc) opens the way for legal action.

 

Worst case scenario is if somebody with a history of mental health problems goes postal and kills somebody.

 

As the WP provider is an agent of the DWP, who are in turn acting on direction from the Secretary of State guess where the buck ultimately stops! That potentially is a whole can of whoop ass waiting in the wings.

 

Summary

1 sorry for derailing this thread a bit.

 

2 I'd suggest you read the Unison guide to disability http://www.unison.org.uk/file/B5763%20Disability%20and%20Health%20and%20Safety%20Guide.pdf for the angle I'm coming from

 

3 if we want to continue this discussion (as it's not strictly on the topic of Ingus) a new thread either here or on the disability board.

[Nystagmite]

Disability Discrimination Act (if it still exists).

 

This has now been replaced (as have several other acts) with the Equalities Act 2010.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

This has now been replaced (as have several other acts) with the Equalities Act 2010.

Given that, within the Ingeus Customer Pledge handed to Claimants at their first meeting (and presumably by other WP Providers) explicitly refers to the commitment towards Equality and Diversity (referenced to the Race Relations Act 1976, Sex Discrimination Act 1975, Equality Act 2010), and given that the Work Programme has only been up and running since July 2010, there is probably scope to pursue legal action via the Equality Act 2010.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

Edited July 4, 2012 by RebeccaPidgeon
grammar

[count orlok]

When you say candidates, do you mean claimants or people applying for jobs with Ingeus? Or are they now calling claimants candidates instead of customers?

[flumps1976]

not allowed to be called claimants now, you are either a customer or a candidate.

[count orlok]

not allowed to be called claimants now, you are either a customer or a candidate.

 

How stupid, we are claimants. I have a choice of who i give my custom or even become a candidate, If i have no money and cannot work I have little choose but to claim benefits.

 

Besides customers get a lot better treatment, any business that treated its customers like this would very soon fold, and no one would be a candidate of a firm that treated its workers so badly (such as being dumped under a bridge in the middle of the night), and didn't pay them.

[Ingeus DoLittle]

A4e failing miserably....

 

 

Anyone know the figures for Ingeus?...

I’m guessing very similar to A4E?...........................

 

Does anyone know how these sub-contractor companies work? I’m currently with Sencia, I’ve been mandated to them for 18 weeks. Some questions…

 

1. Do Ingeus and Sencia get paid for a job outcome, or just Sencia?

 

2. I know about withdrawing consent etc,(my next plan)…Would it be best to not tell the Job Centre/Sencia/Ingeus when I get a job? Just sign off?

 

3. After the 18 weeks, will I be referred back to Ingeus?

 

I’m just sceptical about this new place (Sencia). I find their Advisors to be like leeches, they grab hold of you and are only after BLOOD! (blood money) lol.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Ingeus DoLittle

[Ingeus DoLittle]

@ count orlok

I’ve been called worse!...

Dole scrounging B4$7£%D! lol.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Anyone know the figures for Ingeus?...

I’m guessing very similar to A4E?...........................

 

Does anyone know how these sub-contractor companies work? I’m currently with Sencia, I’ve been mandated to them for 18 weeks. Some questions…

 

1. Do Ingeus and Sencia get paid for a job outcome, or just Sencia?

 

2. I know about withdrawing consent etc,(my next plan)…Would it be best to not tell the Job Centre/Sencia/Ingeus when I get a job? Just sign off?

 

3. After the 18 weeks, will I be referred back to Ingeus?

 

I’m just sceptical about this new place (Sencia). I find their Advisors to be like leeches, they grab hold of you and are only after BLOOD! (blood money) lol.

I suspect that, because of their different cultures, the figures for Work Programme Providers other than A4E and Working Links, may be better, but not by a great deal.

 

1. Some Work Programme Providers negotiate a simple "Referral" to a Work Programme Subcontractor but without any fee - in the case of some organisations, they have reportedly gone bankrupt or withdrawn from the Work Programme because they committed to the contracts without understanding the financial basis of their relationships.

 

2. Irrespective of whether you secure a job, you can revoke any Data Protection Waiver that you have signed without any penalty. If, when you secure a job, you simply need to telephone the Job Centre, and sign off. The Job Seekers Agreement is terminated, and therefore there is no need for you to continue with the Work Programme.... the expectation of the Work Programme Provider is, conversely, that they own you for 2 years from commencement.

 

3. In terms of Sencia - if they are offering a "Vocational Routeways" option, which should last 18 weeks, then after this period of time, the candidate is returned to Ingeus and commences the "Personal Routeways" option.

 

If you have any concerns over Sensia, then you can report your concerns to Ingeus using the Complaints Procedure, and it may be possible to transfer a different subcontractor offering the same Vocational Routeway or different subcontractor. If all else fails, report your concerns to your MP, discuss it with the Citizens Advice Bureau, and consider petitioning for a Judicial Review. The CAB should offer assistance in this respect.

[Me Myself and I]

Am I right in saying that you need to be receiving JSA for 12 months if you're over 25 before you or put on a works program.

If so my question is this if someone can answer it what about if you weren't entitled to JSA for 10 of those months and you have to pay back those 10 months of JSA back as overpayment and you basically only receiving JSA for two of those months are you still entitled to go on a work programme since basically only been receiving JSA for two months and not 12 months needed to go on a work programme are you in your rights to say to your adviser since I've only been on JSA the two-month and not 12 months I don't qualify to go on works program and decline the offer to go on it.

[Nystagmite]

It's 12 months for people over 25, yes. I'm sure I read you can be put forward earlier if your adviser believes that's appropriate.

[HONDA17]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-18688961

 

Hope this works ok

[HONDA17]

New companies named and profits up

Posted: July 7th, 2012 | Author: admin | Filed under: Uncategorized | No Comments »

 

 

Bowing to public pressure, yesterday Holland and Barratt pulled out of the government’s workfare scheme, and now seem only able to afford to offer apprenticeships that pay £2.60 per hour. What they forgot to mention was that whilst using 1,000 unpaid jobseekers over the last year throughout its 250 stores, Holland and Barrett unexpectedly made a pretax profit surge of 19.4% to £60m.

 

Poundland, who are still in the scheme, have recently announced that profits are up 27% this year. The question is, with a potential workfare workforce of 2.6 million unemployed rising, and tens of thousansds of people already sent to work without pay, how many millions of pounds are all the other organisations profiting from workfare making?

 

In the meantime, why not pay a visit to some of the companies revealed today as part of the Week of Action?

 

Barclays Bank

The AA

Amigo

Compass group – Leeds General Infirmary

Costa Coffee

Food Court at Leeds General Infirmary

Queensland Multi-Media centre/Bridge to Success

The Range

Ty Hafan charity shop

ISS facilities

PKD Sporting Solutions Ltd

The Big Bargain company

Eleanor lions hospice shop

RSPCA

Travis Perkins

Butlins

Princess Yachts (!)

Harvester

Grosvenor Casinos

 

If you’re hitting your high street to take action this week, here’s a reminder of some of the other places you might like to pay a visit:

 

Age Concern, Age UK, Argos, Asda, Barnardos, B&Q, British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research, Holiday Inn, Greggs the Bakers, Hilton Hotels, Marriot Hotels, McDonald’s, PDSA, Pizza Hut, Poundland, Poundstretcher, Primark, The Range, RSPCA, Salvation Army, Shoe Zone, Sue Ryder, Superdrug, Tesco, WHSmith, Wilkinsons, The Works.

 

The Arcadia Group is also involved. It includes Burton, Dorothy Perkins, Evans, Topman, Topshop, Wallis.

 

Sadly there’ll be others, so please let us know what you find out during the week. Our top tips for workfare sleuthing are here.

 

There’s loads of stuff planned throughout the week of action and more still to be announced, so let us know what you’re planning and send us your photos and stories afterwards.

 

Good luck everyone – we’re making a real difference!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

New companies named and profits up

Posted: July 7th, 2012 | Author: admin | Filed under: Uncategorized | No Comments »

 

 

Bowing to public pressure, yesterday Holland and Barratt pulled out of the government’s workfare scheme, and now seem only able to afford to offer apprenticeships that pay £2.60 per hour. What they forgot to mention was that whilst using 1,000 unpaid jobseekers over the last year throughout its 250 stores, Holland and Barrett unexpectedly made a pretax profit surge of 19.4% to £60m.

 

Poundland, who are still in the scheme, have recently announced that profits are up 27% this year. The question is, with a potential workfare workforce of 2.6 million unemployed rising, and tens of thousansds of people already sent to work without pay, how many millions of pounds are all the other organisations profiting from workfare making?

 

In the meantime, why not pay a visit to some of the companies revealed today as part of the Week of Action?

 

Barclays Bank

The AA

Amigo

Compass group – Leeds General Infirmary

Costa Coffee

Food Court at Leeds General Infirmary

Queensland Multi-Media centre/Bridge to Success

The Range

Ty Hafan charity shop

ISS facilities

PKD Sporting Solutions Ltd

The Big Bargain company

Eleanor lions hospice shop

RSPCA

Travis Perkins

Butlins

Princess Yachts (!)

Harvester

Grosvenor Casinos

 

If you’re hitting your high street to take action this week, here’s a reminder of some of the other places you might like to pay a visit:

 

Age Concern, Age UK, Argos, Asda, Barnardos, B&Q, British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research, Holiday Inn, Greggs the Bakers, Hilton Hotels, Marriot Hotels, McDonald’s, PDSA, Pizza Hut, Poundland, Poundstretcher, Primark, The Range, RSPCA, Salvation Army, Shoe Zone, Sue Ryder, Superdrug, Tesco, WHSmith, Wilkinsons, The Works.

 

The Arcadia Group is also involved. It includes Burton, Dorothy Perkins, Evans, Topman, Topshop, Wallis.

 

Sadly there’ll be others, so please let us know what you find out during the week. Our top tips for workfare sleuthing are here.

 

There’s loads of stuff planned throughout the week of action and more still to be announced, so let us know what you’re planning and send us your photos and stories afterwards.

 

Good luck everyone – we’re making a real difference!

Another issue is that, whereas on the one hand, if an employer employs a candidate to do a job, they must pay at least the National Minimum Wage, if they simply redesignate a job as an Apprenticeship (and sell this to the gullible candidate), they can pay substantially less.

 

Figures produced in November 2011 highlighted that the maximum uptake for Apprentices was the over 60's, up by about 870%, rather than 16-18 age range, up about 16%.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/14/apprenticeships-training-schemes-employment

[gil_jnr]

Barclays Bank

The AA

Amigo

Compass group – Leeds General Infirmary

Costa Coffee

Food Court at Leeds General Infirmary

Queensland Multi-Media centre/Bridge to Success

The Range

Ty Hafan charity shop

ISS facilities

PKD Sporting Solutions Ltd

The Big Bargain company

Eleanor lions hospice shop

RSPCA

Travis Perkins

Butlins

Princess Yachts (!)

Harvester

Grosvenor Casinos

 

If you’re hitting your high street to take action this week, here’s a reminder of some of the other places you might like to pay a visit:

 

Age Concern, Age UK, Argos, Asda, Barnardos, B&Q, British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research, Holiday Inn, Greggs the Bakers, Hilton Hotels, Marriot Hotels, McDonald’s, PDSA, Pizza Hut, Poundland, Poundstretcher, Primark, The Range, RSPCA, Salvation Army, Shoe Zone, Sue Ryder, Superdrug, Tesco, WHSmith, Wilkinsons, The Works.

 

What I'd like to know is, who and/or what organisations are the majority shareholders in those companies listed?

 

It'll be they (such as the pension investment funds) who are determining business practices to drive down one of the costliest overheads of running any business - that of the employment of labour.

 

If that cost can be reduced as far as possible through restructuring and redundancy of percieved inefficiency, and replaced through a petition to lobby the politicians to endorse such policies as the social-welfare 'work programmes' to compel those fired through such efficiency drives to now work for free, so the profits on the balance sheets of those companies increase, therefore creating an increasing return for those shareholders (such as the pension fund managers who's prime directive is to seek out the best return for their policy holders)

 

As the old adage goes...'follow the money'

[down'n'out]

Another issue is that, whereas on the one hand, if an employer employs a candidate to do a job, they must pay at least the National Minimum Wage, if they simply redesignate a job as an Apprenticeship (and sell this to the gullible candidate), they can pay substantially less.

 

There was/is a lot of problems with apprenticeships, with lots of taxpayers money up for grabs. There was a Panorama documentary about it a couple of months ago.

 

'The Great Apprentice Scandal'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01fm01r/Panorama_The_Great_Apprentice_Scandal/

[hensteeth]

I must be getting old! I honestly never realised that this was going on to the extent it is.

 

Years ago, I bought a pub/retaurant for my wife to run, whilst I carried on working in the city (back in the late 80's/early 90's). Our major expense apart from stock (30% wet stock and 15% food), were wages.

 

My wife had a total of 10 employees who were paid at the time the NMW (£5 something an hour) The total wage bill (£1300 a week) came to approx 30% of sales.

 

I wish they had this scheme running then as she would have made the £1300 for herself on top of the profit she was already making!!!! That would have made our household income nearly £3000 a week!!!!!!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I must be getting old! I honestly never realised that this was going on to the extent it is.

 

Years ago, I bought a pub/retaurant for my wife to run, whilst I carried on working in the city (back in the late 80's/early 90's). Our major expense apart from stock (30% wet stock and 15% food), were wages.

 

My wife had a total of 10 employees who were paid at the time the NMW (£5 something an hour) The total wage bill (£1300 a week) came to approx 30% of sales.

 

I wish they had this scheme running then as she would have made the £1300 for herself on top of the profit she was already making!!!! That would have made our household income nearly £3000 a week!!!!!!

Great Story.... unfortunately, the National Minimum Wage was introduced 1 April 1999 at the rate of £3.00 for over 21's. But, if the 10 employees were paid £5 per hour for a 40 hour week, then taking into account all staff wages (salary, National Insurance, Income Tax), the total Staff Costs would be something of the order of £3600 per week.

[debt4get]

same old story..sod you jack im ok.....never mind when the old city comes crashing down on your heads you can join the rest of dole **** down the jobcentre...

[Nystagmite]

same old story..sod you jack im ok.....never mind when the old city comes crashing down on your heads you can join the rest of dole **** down the jobcentre...

 

Indeed.

 

I've just worked out who hensteeth is.

[osdset]

I've just worked out who hensteeth is

 

It's no good changing a user name, if the writing style is still the same.

[debt4get]

on the subject of apprenticeships, the biggest rise in the number of people taking these is the age group over 60's...(link here http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/nov/14/apprenticeships-training-schemes-employment ) the rise is over 900% in this age group....now I have just watched the latest 'wonga' advert where 'betty' is asked her age...76...the puppet replied.....i am wondering if the 3 oap's depicted are representative of 'wonga' staff busy earning their apprentice wages of £2.60 per hour..whilst the legal 'loan sharks' rake in a profit at over 1700%

Edited July 10, 2012 by debt4get
link

[debt4get]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/rein-pockets-485m-as-ingeus-re-enters-market/story-e6frg6nf-1226422027286

the head of ingeus pockets a cool $4.85m....as the w2w stills fails to get sustainable jobs growth...