Pre-pay meter users 'due rebate

[MARTIN3030]

Milly,it could be that they have had some problems in the past-these days its common with big organisations.

Now and again,you will see this although its difficult to know when such a request will be made.

From all my subject access requests (theres been around 30) I have only had to supply ID twice.

The best way to be sure if there IS a requirement from the individual company to supply ID with a request, is to go to their website an look at their privacy statements.

If there is any uncertainty it should always accompany a request.

Generally If you are unsure,you should send ID as a precaution which should include 1 document with address such as a utility bill dated within the last 6 weeks,bank or credit card statement.

One proof of name,which can be a copy of passport birth certificate,driving licence (if new style both parts) marriage certificate etc.

The sections of the act in the issues you mention are as follows;

 

The 'Relevant day' or the start of the forty day period according to section 7.8.and section 7 (10) of the Act means the day on which the subject access request is received,and in addition,if a fee,or proof of identity is requested,the day that both the fee and sufficient proof of identity hae been received by the data controller.

 

Proof of identity for a Data Controllers right to refuse a Subject access request,falls within section 7. (3) 1.

A data controller is not obliged to supply any information unless they are satisfied as to the identity of the person making the request.

 

As far as I am aware,there is nothing in the act that requires any pre-determined method of paying the fee,although we have seen data controllers refusing to accept postal orders in favour of a cheque,Egg is one such organisation that springs to mind.

 

Some firms will also return the payment as a gesture of goodwill-I have had this on 3 of my previous applications.

 

By nature of them asking you to send a cheque and supply ID even though you sent a cheque,suggests to me that this is a templated letter,drawn up to address both or either of the criteria.

 

I hope this is clear-but what they are saying here,is within their remit under the DPA unfortunately.

[milly5]

Thanks Martin, I understand what you are saying about sar and proof of identity,I still think EDF are being awkward.

 

I have never had to supply proof of identity before ,I must have sent about 10 sar in the past.

I will have a look on EDF website to see what their policies are.

 

at this rate it will be Autumn before I get to see whats in my SAR.........

 

milly.

[littlefatbudha]

I keep hearing "More expences are use to manage pre pay meters",

well alot of people on prepay meters use the emergency credit, sometimes not viable to go out and top up etc,which you have to pay extra to do,so by using gas on credit,like most people in the country,pre pay customers have to pay for that pleasure.

I think if i use £5 emergency credit it costs me about £2 !!!

So where does this excess charge go, does this not pay to service the meter etc. !!

Edited August 14, 2009 by littlefatbudha

[MARTIN3030]

I asked Scottish power AND Eon,why you cannot buy top ups for less than £5.00.

Both told me that its not them who have fixed this-it is the paypoint outlets.

I was told its ok with them for you to get £2.00 worth of credit.

 

If a meter trips out even with a -10p debit you still have to go and get £5.

In some cases you will have to go and get £7 because the fiver will not be enough.

 

Its the same with mobile phone top ups-CO OP stores in my town will not sell you a £5 top up-the minimum is now a tenner.

When I asked about this they tried to say it was nothing to do with them....but other paypoint outlets are still doing the fiver top ups.

Its just the Co Op wanting to make more money in commission.

 

I am going to look into this,given that its not the utility companies policies,it must be therefore paypoint outlets.

 

I know you can use a paypoint to pay say 3 quid on a TV licencing payment card-why therefore do they insist on a minimum of a fiver for gas and electric cards and keys ?

[sparky321]

im with n.power and by chance found out today that i am over 200 in credit even though i have a prepay key meter. i asked them to send me a cheque but was told they need to be certain that this is owed to me first. i asked how hard could that be and stated that if it is on my statement they should send it to me asap, the woman was reluctant to talk about it and said they will send it to me if its owed. im confused lol any advice would be appreciated thanx xx

[Jan4a]

just subscribing for a friend who has a prepay meter.... she's got no money so I will help her claim if it becomes possible.

 

She'd also be pleased to be able to buy £5 mobile top-ups especially on her daughter's mobile internet. I think that might be 3 mobile though rather than the paypoint outlets. But good point. Didn't know about the Co-op before, will make my dad buy his from elsewhere in future.

[MARTIN3030]

You can top up mobiles now on a lot of cash machines-theres no charge to do it and it allows a fiver.

[buzby]

There meters are complex things, they also keep track of differing amounts - based on what is owed and what is consumed. It is quite possible for the customer to build up a substantial 'credit' on the consumtion side of the usage meter, but still be in debit for money owed previously (that can be taken from the topup credit.

 

Once they establish the true balance (credit - stored debit liability, if it is more than their 'ceiling' they arrange for a repayment on request. The only way to resolve this issue is to swap for a standard credit meter and by on bill presentation (or monthly plan).

Edited September 2, 2009 by buzby

[kia]

There meters are complex things, they also keep track of differing amounts - based on what is owed and what is consumed. It is quite possible for the customer to build up a substantial 'credit' on the consumtion side of the usage meter, but still be in debit for money owed previously (that can be taken from the topup credit.

 

Once they establish the true balance (credit - stored debit liability, if it is more than their 'ceiling' they arrange for a repayment on request. The only way to resolve this issue is to swap for a standard credit meter and by on bill presentation (or monthly plan).

wou1d that i cou1d they wont take it out without paying to have it removed and i aint got that sort of money xxkia

[MARTIN3030]

Yes most people with prepayment meters dont have any possibility to swap for a credit meter-which is why they are using a prepayment meter in the first place.

[kia]

yep i know something aint right about that if u dont owe anything u shou1d be ab1e to choose if u want it in what i regret is i was offered to have it taken out for nothing just over 6 months ago but i wou1d have to pay off what was 1eft which at the time was more than i cou1d afford but now i regret not trying to get it paid off but didnt re1ise that wou1d start charging for it xxxxxkia

[MARTIN3030]

Plus many now do a credit check before taking you off a prepay and giving you a credit meter.

I think maybe for those who are able to think about it-trying a switch and seeking an assurance from the new provider that they will give you a credit meter.

For those with a bad credit file some suppliers insist on a security deposit too.

[fedup74]

subbing:)

[kia]

very true martin so 1ooks as if im stuck on1y way is to pay scottish power to take it out and as for credit check i aint got a chance at passing that so who knows xxkia

[MARTIN3030]

Yep its catch 22-its always been this way

[MARTIN3030]

Although to be fair-I think there has to be an arguement on proportional implication.

Seems lots are struggling now with utility bills.

Who poses the biggest liability to these companies ?

Is it someone who has mort arrears has just lost their job and is facing repo of their car from the finance company...has half a dozen late payment flags on their credit file......or else a person living in a council house with a 70 quid catalogue CCJ on their credit file and a settled entry for a loan they took 4 years ago ????????????????

[kia]

yep this is true cos i got both and sure1y if your forced into having them u shou1d be given the right to have it taken out cos i never asked for it and sure1y it shou1d count for something the fact it is paid off now but seems it dont and as for changing companys we11 thats another catch 22 cos with the meter sti11 in i cou1d change but if i want it taken out then i get the same prob u have to pay to have it taken out ahhhhhhh *bangs head against wa11*:confused:so yes i do think there is an arugment for it but what to do about it i dunno prob for now a11 we can do it ta1k about it as with these meter charges they have imposed maybe for now a11 we can is ta1k about it but the time for action wi11 come as it did with bank charges watch this space xxxkia

[MARTIN3030]

Yes.

Tho I do know that quite a few of these energy providers dont actually own the meters....my understanding is that they rent them off the big boys like BG and Scottish Power.So its not always the case that it would cost a lot to do the changeover-I mean in terms of having to deal with different companies.

Suppose you wont know until you ask.

[kia]

yep this is true do u reckon one of these price comparison things is worth a go as not rea11y sure which company to go with atm either xxxkia

[MARTIN3030]

I was reading of a few customers stories regarding this.

One said that BG did not charge them for changing from pre-pay to credit.

Another told that n.power also did not charge them.

A third said that eon had initially wanted £50 but agreed to waive the charge after the customer agreed to use them for both Gas and Electricity.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I think its worth taking a look at the price comparison sites.u switch seems ok.

What you would need to do tho is to input your data using the info on how much of each you are using now. Then I would contact all those who come out in say the top 3 or 4 and ask them if they would be prepared to remove the prepay and instal a credit meter if you swapped.

Nothing to lose by asking.

[buzby]

Why should the meter be changed back at no cost? The whole point of these meters is to allow folk who have got into difficulties retain their use of the utility, whilst paying off any outstanding amounts due. Nothig wrong with that - unless you feel the original option of formal disconnection was more useful?

 

The cost of the meter change is factored in to the provision and installation of it - so it is not 'free' in the sense that there is no charge for its instalation or subsequent use. When the time comes for its removal, if the consumer is not the person or family ordinarily resident at the premises, then they have a right to request its removal and restoration of a credit meter - but since the cost of this isn;t billed to the outgoing meter, then there will be the cost of the house visit to undertake the work which will have to be paid for. Since the cost of the utility being supplied will now be on a cheaper tariff, the cost of the swap will be quickly recouped.

 

As for 'passing a credit check' - there is no 'credit' involved here - if you are saying that the tenant may show a history of bad debts, CCJ's and the rest, surely the supplier is simply ensuring that their customer is OK to deal with... like the banks, mobile phone companies, book clubs, catalogue shops all operate. If the utlities didn;t, it would be pretty reckless of them.

 

Finally, these 'price comparson sites' - I would suggest you treat their information as simply 'useful' no more than that. These firms actually are paid by the suppliers to feature their brands, so are already compromised on their impartiality. Look at what they offer, but do yur own research - it can often work out better when you DIY.

[MARTIN3030]

"Why should the meter be changed back at no cost? The whole point of these meters is to allow folk who have got into difficulties retain their use of the utility, whilst paying off any outstanding amounts due. Nothig wrong with that - unless you feel the original option of formal disconnection was more useful?"

 

How many people are going to ask to pay ?

Yes we all know the reason for pre-payment meters-does that mean they should stick with them when their debt is paid ?

 

"Since the cost of the utility being supplied will now be on a cheaper tariff, the cost of the swap will be quickly recouped."

 

Yes of course-but why should they forfeit some of those savings ?

 

"As for 'passing a credit check' - there is no 'credit' involved here - if you are saying that the tenant may show a history of bad debts, CCJ's and the rest, surely the supplier is simply ensuring that their customer is OK to deal with... like the banks, mobile phone companies, book clubs, catalogue shops all operate. If the utlities didn;t, it would be pretty reckless of them."

 

Which ever way you want to interpret it-the fact remains,credit checks ARE made- credit is credit whether the credit being advanced is GAS,Money or a Tellytubby DVD.

 

"Finally, these 'price comparson sites' - I would suggest you treat their information as simply 'useful' no more than that. These firms actually are paid by the suppliers to feature their brands, so are already compromised on their impartiality. Look at what they offer, but do yur own research - it can often work out better when you DIY."

 

Not all of them are paid by suppliers,or did you check them all ?

 

 

[buzby]

In order:

(1) Was this rhetorical? As to your second sentence; whether they 'stick with them' is a question better suited to those affected. We have seen many instances where consumers actuall WANT these meters, as they do not have the wherewithall to cope with paying in arrears. Are you suggesting they should not be allowed to do so? As for those who no longer require them, they change back to a credit meter would be their decision, but as this is a labour intensive task (licenced electrician, home visit) who else is going to pay for the work if not the person wishing to swap?

 

(2) Already answered. There's no 'forfeit' - you appear to be suggesting all the other utility customers should pay for the exchange of a meter.

 

(3) Some 'credit checks' are simply identification checks - however you want to call it. My clarification is that as there is no requirement for credit, 'acceptance' isn't the hurdle the term usually implies.

 

(4) In my own case, I checked a total of 18 electricity suppliers that were capable of retailing me energy. I checked those that sold via their own websites as well as those that acted as switching consolidators (like U-Switch). Their payment model is based on commissions paid to them by the new (switched) supplier - whether this affects them 'all' is immaterial, the point is even if it is just ONE comparison site that takes money for a recommendation, it devalues their independence IMO, and it is something overlooked by users of these services. Perhaps it would be useful if you could list those you are aware of that do not recieve any payment for their recommendation... or would this list be too short to bother about?

[MARTIN3030]

I am not suggesting they should not be allowed to keep their prepayment meters if they wish to do so-I dont see any hints of that ?

I was merely continuing this discussion on here,for those who are seeking some answers,specifically why it should cost them money to release themselves from pre-pay to credit metering.

For so long these pre pay meters were a source of extra profit for utility companies-are you saying that they did not make huge sums which pal into insignificance in relation to the costs of removing them ?

 

I have other things to do than list all the comparison sites here-you should let the members decide for themselves,as will I .