Can i help?

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

Let ME be blunt- a person's benefits are paid to the person in reciept of them because the government has decided that is the minimum they need to live on.

A bank is breaking the law by taking the money intended for that person.

(The Social Security Administration Act 1992)

You really have no idea about this have you?

caro · September 3, 2007

You clearly aren't aware Ethical that benefits are government money which is intended for the original recipient. Banks are not at liberty to take them.

I appreciate your intentions, but might I suggest that you read around this site a little more, and you may realise that not all the information that your employers have given you is entirely accurate.

You may realise then why people are responding to you as they are.

Just think about why the OFT is taking the banks to court over charges if they are lawful, and why banks have paid back millions in the last 18 months.

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

I really can't comment on law.

Yes you can, we all have an opinion on it

As i said previously, if it was illegal it would never have been introduced in the first place. that sounds logical to me.

Doesnt it just?

:rolleyes:

rory32 · September 3, 2007

You have combined the two things in my last post. The two were not necessarily related.

You have still not answered the question of how you justify contravention of The Social Security Administration Act. Perhaps you don't know what this is. In particular I was refering to section 187. Often the overdraft (apart from the first few pence of it) is caused completely by charges which the bank are not lawfully allowed to apply to benefits. Often banks also ignore right of appropriation letters too making the situation far worse.

I also note you have chosen to ignore caro's previous post on the real cost of bank charges.

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

"As i said previously, if it was illegal it would never have been introduced in the first place. that sounds logical to me."

Sounds more like deception to me.

EthicalBusiness · September 3, 2007

You clearly aren't aware Ethical that benefits are government money which is intended for the original recipient. Banks are not at liberty to take them.

I appreciate your intentions, but might I suggest that you read around this site a little more, and you may realise that not all the information that your employers have given you is entirely accurate.

You may realise then why people are responding to you as they are.

I am offering my opinion, if people ignore or belittle them then fine, i hope you will not be charged again and that the current information on the site is sufficient for your needs.

I am addressing those people in financial difficulty or those who would like further information on avoiding future charges.

Charges will not go away.

I am sure if a parking attendant walked up to any one of you and told you "That meter over there, it's broken, park on those double yellows and we won't do a thing", you'd all jump for joy.

Are members of this website unable to accept a helpful gesture? Are you really all that disgruntled about charges that you'd take it out on someone who's job it is to make sure no more charges apply to customers accounts.

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

Oh dry your eyes, we're not belittling you.

Unlawful charges will go away when the banks lose the test case.

They will go away from the banks and back to the people who it belongs to, along with all interest levied thereon.

EthicalBusiness · September 3, 2007

Oh dry up, we're not belittling you.

Unlawful charges will go away when the banks lose the test case.

They will go away from the banks and back to the people who it belongs to, along with all interest leveied thereon.

These are examples of the events i've read that prompted me to join the site.

"I paid by card and was charged when it came out of my account, why let them take it when the money wasn't there". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I was refused an overdraft and then i got charged because i couldn't pay my bills". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I was told when i opened the basic bank account i coulndn't go overdrawn and here i am overdrawn". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I have received a letter saying my account will be closed". I know why and i know how to stop it.

To be honest, of the 50-60 posts here, only 3 have been close to what i joined for. I don't care about law, or benefit conditions, that's not my job. If someone reading this website wants to stop being charged, let me know.

Andy Williams · September 3, 2007

Ethical Business..nothing against you personally but I have dealt with Co-Op and Smile whilst helping my girlfriend and cannot believe how un-ethical and incompetent the staff and bank are.

Let's forget the unlawful charges for a second (some of which you actually call commission???)

Having closed her account with a final payment (and being assured that it was closed) 4 mths later Gary from Co-Op (yes I still remember his name)

rang to ask what she was going to do about The £260 charges on her account....When challenged he actually checked the account and then replied 'oh it seems when you made your payment to close the account the switch machine was broken so the payment took a while to go through..so interest accrued between you paying by card and the payment going through'.....so an hour or however it took resulted in £260 worth of charges.....you couldn't make it up.

Gary then promised to sought it out refund the charges and close the account. Shame no one bothered reading the account notes before ringing.

2 weeks later ...threatening phonecall from Smile regarding balance on account. My girlfriend yet again feeling like a parrot repeated her story and her conversation with Gary...the reply...Gary from Co-Op does not have the authority to refund the charges and we will not refund them.

Needless to say we submitted a court claim and were refunded. Does any of this ring a bell Ethical Business?...Do the departments at Smile and Co-Op Know what each other are doing???

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

"I don't care about law"

Yes, we sort of get that impression.

Unfortunately for you and your bank, the Courts do.

That is why the banks have had to return hundreds of millions already and will be £10billion out of pocket when they lose the test case.

Rooster-UK · September 3, 2007

You have still not answered the question of how you justify contravention of The Social Security Administration Act. Perhaps you don't know what this is. In particular I was refering to section 187. Often the overdraft (apart from the first few pence of it) is caused completely by charges which the bank are not lawfully allowed to apply to benefits. Often banks also ignore right of appropriation letters too making the situation far worse.

What is your opinion?

Michael Browne · September 3, 2007

"I paid by card and was charged when it came out of my account, why let them take it when the money wasn't there". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I was refused an overdraft and then i got charged because i couldn't pay my bills". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I was told when i opened the basic bank account i coulndn't go overdrawn and here i am overdrawn". I know why and i know how to stop it.

"I have received a letter saying my account will be closed". I know why and i know how to stop it.

Then it would be helpful to actually give the answers to these questions, instead of just telling us 'I know why and i know how to stop it.

'

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

ethical- youre about as genuine as a Tudor video cabinet.

It was fun playing with you.

Byeeee!

Rooster-UK · September 3, 2007

To be honest, of the 50-60 posts here, only 3 have been close to what i joined for. I don't care about law, or benefit conditions, that's not my job.

That sums it up, nicely!

noomill060 · September 3, 2007

ethical has left the building!

EthicalBusiness · September 3, 2007

Hello Gary

Unfortunately you're not the only person in this scenario, i'm all too aware of this problem but i must say it's not often but does cause problems when it happens. You should not have had to claim any charges back though.

While you're overdrawn, you accrue interest, and possibly charges. During this time, you're not made aware of it until your statement is printed on the 5th of the month. In this case, the statements going to customers on the 5th of September 2007 will indicate any interest and charges to be debited on the 21st of September.

Now, to the point, all this was happening in the background while you were paying your girlfriends account off. All that's happened is, the account wasn't closed and hence the charges were allowed to debit.

In my experience, and trust me i've done this before, if i do contact a customer regarding an overdrawn balance, or someone rings because of the standard "3 month overdrawn dormancy" letter, i check why they're over. If it's charges, they're gone, it's as simple as that - account closed, no more Gary's etc.

I must say that we do talk to each other, but the outbound telephone system dials the number and only presents the account to the collections department when the customer answers. Effectively, what i'm getting at, we don't have a clue what's going on until we've had a look around for a bit. Sorry but that's just the way it is, we can't sit and browse the account, we have to do it on the fly.

Again i'm sorry for your experience, if the debit balance was caused by someone not closing your account and daily charges accruing, i would have got rid of everything and closed the account.

rory32 · September 3, 2007

What is your opinion?

My opinion is that the Act is quite clear:

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-

(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;

(b)any income-related benefit; or

and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bankruptcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors