Can i help?

[noomill060]

Well, after reading the small amount of info on this site that you have, you should be happy that you will now be able to tell them, that even if charges are debited, they will be able to force your bank to return thier hard earned money and all interest levied thereon.

[EthicalBusiness]

I tell customers the charges will stop when they follow my advice.

[jansus]

what would you say to someone then that called and said - look I have made a mistake and I have gone overdrawn - I am transferring money from my savings account with another financial institution as we speak - but due to the banking system it will take 4 days to get to you . I have been with you since 1992 and have a regular salary paid into my account all that time - please can you increase my overdraft only for 4 days so that you do not bounce my small dd.

 

guess what- the answer was no - resulting in £135.00 of charges.

 

Now I could afford to pay those and did so - but as an ex-bank employee I find that this attitude is pointing towards treating people as a source of income - in the past there was some leeway.

 

I can understand you maybe trying to help and if it stops people putting their heads in the sand until it is too late - then great, I am sure you will be welcomed - however please do not assume that all the people are on here because they can not manage their money - to some it has become more a matter of helping those who have already got themselves into trouble and may be too far down the line for your help.

 

but will be following your posts with interest:)

 

jan

[noomill060]

I of course refer to penalty charges and not legitimate fees for services.

[noomill060]

ethical- I dont know how old you are, but this system of charging for evrything is relatively recent. I've been banking for 27 years and its only in the last what 10 years or so that fees for going overdrawn, etc have become so extortionate.

 

If my forgetfulness has cost the bank money, Im happy to pay for my mistake.

 

But if the bank acts like a gangster, then I (and another million or so customers) will respond appropriately.

[EthicalBusiness]

what would you say to someone then that called and said - look I have made a mistake and I have gone overdrawn - I am transferring money from my savings account with another financial institution as we speak - but due to the banking system it will take 4 days to get to you . I have been with you since 1992 and have a regular salary paid into my account all that time - please can you increase my overdraft only for 4 days so that you do not bounce my small dd.

 

guess what- the answer was no - resulting in £135.00 of charges.

 

 

Jan, just what i was waiting for, thankyou.

 

I've dealt with this sort of thing before. The bank system shows the customer service advisor that there's no recommendation for an overdraft and promptly declines your request as instructed to do so in their training.

 

I cannot give you a 100% answer because i have not got a clue about your personal circumstances, the amount of debt you owe in & outside of the Co-op accounts, the turnover of your account and your Experian credit score, these factors are all built into what the system thinks is a good overdraft limit for you.

 

If you'd have spoken to me, a common sense approach would be first to ascertain if it's responsible to give you an overdraft to pay the bills. I know it's only 4 days, don't ask... If it's not a suitable option, we'll suspend the Direct Debits for free. It's called a blanket stop. This means Direct Debits are stopped until you remove the stop. We don't charge you a penny, the companies might, but to be honest, it's not us you owe the money, it's the companies, so the priority is letting them know about the mistake and coming to an arrangement with them.

 

At the end of it all you'll end up owing the bank money or owing the companies money. Who's more likely to charge you? My approach here would be to ask the companies for the leway if the bank point blank refused your request and if they can't because the instructions already on the way, cancel the direct debit or "blanket stop" all of them.

 

This may not be the method of choice, but it results in 0 charges. Please remember banks don't just give out overdrafts any more, it's a stern change with the new debt crisis and the fact everyone's claiming charges back.

[noomill060]

"...and the fact everyone's claiming charges back."

 

So you admit that charges dont just cover heating, rent, paying saying one to talk to a customer about their charges etc.

 

The banks are using them as a profit source.

 

Case proved.

 

The Court orders that Mr Xxxxx recover from Co-operative Bank £xxxx with £xxx County Court interest @8% and £xx court fee.

[EthicalBusiness]

noomill060, i'd prefer not to converse with you from this point forth. It is clear to me that regardless of the charges you've had refunded, you still have some issues that i am not able to deal with. I am sorry but i am not going to give my free time at 11pm to be badgered by you.

 

Respectfully, i will no longer reply to or acknowledge your posts unless it is of a positive nature or my reply would prove useful to another member or guest of this site.

 

Regards.

[noomill060]

Sorry if I come across rather blunt, Im sure you are a lovely fluffy person in real life, but you are working for people on the knife edge of legality.

[EthicalBusiness]

Then please take your issue to the source of your anger. I am sat at home on my computer, if you wish to belittle my comments you may open an account with the Co-operative Bank and prompty go overlimit, i'll happily be belittled when you ring the telephone number i'm paid to answer.

 

As for the site, i will continue to offer guidance. Taking note from jansus, for any members reading this thread, my expertise would be accustomed to those of you who are reliant upon their credit facility, primarily the overdraft, and especially those of you in financial difficulty or those with basic bank accounts like the Cashminder.

 

You may also find some of the information regarding payment timescales useful. Plus i work for a bank so I may know a thing or two of interest, like how the 3 day bank transfer will now only take 2 hours from next year.

[noomill060]

Whether or not you choose to acknowlege my posts, in a few months your employers will have attempt to justify themselves in front of a High Court judge in these matters.

 

You will then be saying something else to your banks customers.

[noomill060]

I am not in any way angry at you, nor do I wish to belittle you, ethical.

 

My scorn to purely reserved for the weakness of the banks justification of their penalty charges.

 

I simply ask that you aquaint youself with the legalities and whether you consider the Law applies to your employer as it does to the rest of us.

[caro]

Could you please explain the reason for the 5.00 a day that smile charge when over the overdraft limit, even by only a few pence, especially when it's on top of a 15.00 monthly charge and higher interest rate. What costs do smile incur to merit this?

[pcdoc]

Blanket stop

Is all well and good ethic and I appreciate the poster was talking of 4 days, however if you have cancelled DD's and it's over a longer period and an originator decides that they will restart their DD and you are oblivious to this, as I was, I ended up with £70 of charges that was not of my doing and I had to pay them. All I can say is that nobody will look favourably on an institution that has profits in the billions each year that charges customers £30, £35+ for a failed direct debit when a £12 DD is due but the customer only has £10 in the account.

 

Furthermore I will never be convinced that an automated letter inc electricity, paper, toner, envelope and postage costs come anywhere near £35.

[EthicalBusiness]

Could you please explain the reason for the 5.00 a day that smile charge when over the overdraft limit, even by only a few pence.

 

Hello Caro, thanks for the message.

 

As all bank staff will say, there's no way to know why a charge is £5 or £35. I am being honest with you when i say there's not one person i work with who could answer such a question.

 

Take the HSBC who charged me £20 per card payment. The Co-op who will charge you £35. Smile will charge you £25. Why this differs i do not know.

 

On many occasions i've spoken to customers who have been pennies over their overdraft limit yet suffered the full force of daily charges by Smile bank. I kid you not, i've seen an overlimit amount of £0.10 be charged £150 in one month. This equates to £15 + £5 for day 1, then a full month at £5 per day. I know this won't be new information for many people here.

 

Keep in mind you've got to leave your account for a LONG time to get £150 of charges which begs the question why didn't the customer check the account, and if they did, what stopped them from ringing the bank.

[noomill060]

ethical- a customer isnt obliged to check their statements.

 

It just comes back to the fact that it is unlawful to charge more for breach of contract than it actually costs.

[EthicalBusiness]

Is all well and good ethic and I appreciate the poster was talking of 4 days, however if you have cancelled DD's and it's over a longer period and an originator decides that they will restart their DD and you are oblivious to this, as I was, I eneded up with £70 of charges that was not of my doing and I had to pay them.

 

Thanks for the message.

 

The issue you have here is that the company went against your wishes under your direct debit guarantee, and setup the mandate anyway. I've also dealt with this and unfortunately refused several refunds based upon the lack of bank error.

 

Please take this information positively, if you already have this information then i apologise.

 

The blanket stop will refuse any Direct Debit mandate from debiting the account. No Direct Debit will leave the account even if a Direct Debit (say to Sky) was cancelled and Sky have come back with a new instruction.

 

Unluckily for you, you only cancelled the original instruction, without a stop in place, the originator can come back as you found out.

 

That's where an originator stop comes into play. Rather than stop every single direct debit, you can stop one company from coming back. For those of you that don't know, each company in the Direct Debit scheme has an originator code. This is a 6 digit number. This number can be stopped from claiming funds via Direct Debit. So, if you've got a company causing you hassle, apply an originator stop. The bank could cancel multiple Direct Debits from the same company to no avail without an originator stop.

 

I hope this was of some use.

[noomill060]

The person who discovered that a 10p overdraft had cost them £150, would then be hounded by the bank's debt collectors, ultimately taken to court and their credit record ruined for an unlawful series of debits unless they knew about this and brought it to the attention of the judge.

 

You really must agree, this is a scandle. Please tell your customers or at least suggest that they look at this website.

[rory32]

Often when you do ring the bank in my experience they will do nothing for you and then add a £90 referal charge at the end of the month.

 

What is your position on the banks taking charges from peoples benefits acting in contravention of The Social Security Administration Act 1992 leaving them no money to buy food, never mind pay the bills?

[Michael Browne]

As all bank staff will say, there's no way to know why a charge is £5 or £35. I am being honest with you when i say there's not one person i work with who could answer such a question

Nevertheless, you must have an opinion.

 

Do you personally believe that the charges imposed by any bank:

 

1. Represent their true costs?

 

2. That they are lawful?

[caro]

Ethical Business

 

You may be interested in CYNthesys, which was demonstrated on the BBC Whistleblower programme and to an MP to show the true cost to Clydesdale and Yorkshire Banks for each "indescretion". I have spoken personally to the Whistleblower and the real cost for such things are under 2.00. I'm sure you know smile don't send letters, although I don't know about the Co-op.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/76033-watch-yorkshre-bank-costs.html

 

It is these kind of charges that exacerbate debt for many people.

[jansus]

Jan, just what i was waiting for, thankyou.

 

I've dealt with this sort of thing before. The bank system shows the customer service advisor that there's no recommendation for an overdraft and promptly declines your request as instructed to do so in their training.

 

I cannot give you a 100% answer because i have not got a clue about your personal circumstances, the amount of debt you owe in & outside of the Co-op accounts, the turnover of your account and your Experian credit score, these factors are all built into what the system thinks is a good overdraft limit for you.

 

If you'd have spoken to me, a common sense approach would be first to ascertain if it's responsible to give you an overdraft to pay the bills. I know it's only 4 days, don't ask... If it's not a suitable option, we'll suspend the Direct Debits for free. It's called a blanket stop. This means Direct Debits are stopped until you remove the stop. We don't charge you a penny, the companies might, but to be honest, it's not us you owe the money, it's the companies, so the priority is letting them know about the mistake and coming to an arrangement with them.

 

At the end of it all you'll end up owing the bank money or owing the companies money. Who's more likely to charge you? My approach here would be to ask the companies for the leway if the bank point blank refused your request and if they can't because the instructions already on the way, cancel the direct debit or "blanket stop" all of them.

 

This may not be the method of choice, but it results in 0 charges. Please remember banks don't just give out overdrafts any more, it's a stern change with the new debt crisis and the fact everyone's claiming charges back.

 

 

first of all the banks have been able to do transfers quicker that 4 days for some time and they have delayed implimenting this for some time and are delaying until next year although they have been asked to bring this forward - true yes? We all know the reason for that it does not take a genius to work that out. Reference not paying the direct debit - of course you owe the company if its not paid - but guess what when its a one off most companies write you a nice letter just reminding you it has not been paid - you pay them and they dont charge you.

 

Of course people getting deeper into debt should be stopped - just letting people go way over the overdraft limit would not be helping anyone - but also the spiraling charges worsen the situation and if you read the stories on here you will find that most people have approached the banks for help when they have been in quite dire circumstances through no fault of their own - and have received no help - which is why you are going to find posts like the ones above . I think they feel these fees are illegal and unjustified - they are nowadays treated like a number and not a human being and it is the most vunerable people that are targeted. To blame these people for others not having their overdrafts increased is not valid..

for example the only markers I have on any of my accounts are from the bank in question for OD charges . I have never defaulted in a loan or mortgage payment in my life. If banks are not giving out overdrafts it is not because of websites like this it is because they have been caught out by irresponsible lending in the past.

 

Dont forget I am an ex bank employee myself and dealt with mortgage arrears and finance and I despair of the way some people have been treated. If you are genuinely here to help then I am sure you will be welcomed - just please try and understand some of the issues behind the posts

 

 

jan:)

[noomill060]

steady chaps- ethical isnt here to be badgered.

 

The words "party line" and "tow" spring to mind.

[EthicalBusiness]

Often when you do ring the bank in my experience they will do nothing for you and then add a £90 referal charge at the end of the month.

 

What is your position on the banks taking charges from peoples benefits acting in contravention of The Social Security Administration Act 1992 leaving them no money to buy food, never mind pay the bills?

 

Hello and thanks for the message.

 

In my department we will only say no if:

There's blatant misuse of facilities where the customer is causing the problems through their own misconduct

Experian have notified us of adverse information on the credit file

There is no grounds for concern i.e. the increase is for non essential items.

 

If someone in on benefits and they're looking for an increase to their overdraft, that to me is dangerous ground. For such a low income as it is, further indebting a customer who is on benefits is not wise. I am trained to offer alternatives instead, like, checking what Direct Debits can be cancelled, or reduced. You'll be amazed at how many people want to cancel the Gas and Electric but scream down the phone when you ask to cancel Sky.

 

Let me be as blunt as i can without causing any offence to you. If you're on benefits, or if you earn £1,000,000 a year, you will be charged for going overlimit, it is that simple.

 

Of course i previously mentioned that the size of the income would further irritate the level of financial difficulty, and in the first instance, 100% of the charges would be removed. If charges continued to apply, the overdraft would be increased to encapsulate the charges and this would be reduced monthly. If charges continue after this level of help had been offered, facilities would then be removed to stop charges.

 

This is all in my experience and not everyone would do this for a customer.

 

We do not deny access to benefits. If we cannot offer an overdraft, a formal arrangement will be made to pay off the overdrawn balance with the customer debiting the benefits via a branch, minus £10 or £20 to chip away at the balance.

[EthicalBusiness]

Nevertheless, you must have an opinion.

 

Do you personally believe that the charges imposed by any bank:

 

1. Represent their true costs?

 

2. That they are lawful?

 

Hello,

 

I personally believe that in some way, the charge represents the work involved in the final act of refusing a payment (or authorising it in the case of card and backed cheques). I do tend to dig deep with things like this. I'm sure the bank doesn't have a wad of money set aside to pay me from the money it makes on the stockmarket.

 

I really can't comment on law. As i said previously, if it was illegal it would never have been introduced in the first place. that sounds logical to me.