Council Tax and Bailiffs ref only - NO POSTS ALLOWED

[payback68]

Hi,

Been through a similar scenario with my niece last year whereupon the Bailiff in question tried the same thing i.e making a Levy on a vehicle which is on HP!.

I involved my M.P and sent all correspondence via him which resulted in the Bailiff Company in question backing down and re-imbursing my niece in full. These sharks are unbelievable.

Let me quote from NationalDebt Line:-

 

WHAT THINGS ARE BAILIFFS ALLOWED TO TAKE?

There are some things that the bailiffs are not allowed to take at all, such as goods that are rented or hired. The regulations also say that the following items are exempt and cannot be taken:

 

· The bailiffs can only take goods belonging to you if you are named on the liability order. This means that if the Council Tax debt is just in your name, the bailiff should not take goods which are owned jointly with someone else. If they want to take goods that belong to someone else (your children, partner, lodgers, etc.) explain that the goods do not belong to you. If you can, show a receipt or note as proof. The owner of the goods may have to provide a sworn statement in the form of a 'statutory declaration' to say this is the case.

· INFORMATION

they cannot take goods which are rented or hired. This includes goods on hire purchase agreements.

 

A bailiff shouldn't take goods that are worth more than you actually owe.

 

Personally i WOULD involve your M.P over this as he will/should forward all correspondence regarding yourself and the fact they should not have levied goods owned by a Finance Company anyway (HP).

 

Simply find your M.P on the Net and send an email, also ensure that you mention that if need be you WILL involve the ACEA with regards to a formal complaint and possibly issue a Form 4.

 

Best of luck

PB68.

[echowitch]

The Bailiff pushed his way past your wife. So he forcibly and aggressively gained access to property without permission. Did he touch your wife at all ? Did you get the Bailiffs name ? If yes to all contact the Police and report it as assault against your wife, and forced entry. Point out that she is disabled, and was scared and the Bailiff was intimidating (Im assuming he was) and have the Police deal with it. If you are lucky he will be arrested and charged with a few things that will hopefully at the very least teach the **** to play by the rules or reap the consequences.

[johnhn]

I would check with the council the exact amount you still owe them and then start paying them directly.

 

I phoned my former council today and asked how much I owe them - they said they didn't know as it had been handed to bailiffs. I explained that I believed it was in the region of £188, but the bailiffs were asking for £635.98 "+ costs" which the bailiffs had been unable/unwilling to explain. The reply was "we don't know". I asked them if it was their policy to pursue arrears against people with a state income of £65 per week. They said "yes, you'll have to make an arrangement with the bailiff". I said that the bailiff refuses to agree to any reasonable arrangement. They said "sorry". I said "well I'll just pay you direct then". They said "ok".

 

As I type, I am expecting the bailiffs to attend my ex-partner's home, where they think I live. I don't, as I have had no fixed address since we split (amicably) 4 months ago. Clearly they have no business there whatsoever.

 

I have spoken to the bailiff in question following a previous visit to my ex's home, and was threatened with arrest and imprisonment, which I didn't buy for one minute, but it left me very shaken nevertheless. How do I deal with (i.e. get rid of) these people, both immediately, and long-term?

 

I am contemplating bankruptcy due to other debts incurred in a vicious divorce, but haven't yet raised the £450 fee!

[newstarter]

You wont get rid of bailiffs overnight.What you have to do here is use the same mentality as the bailiffs,in other words face up to them and let them know in no uncertain terms that they are getting nowt.When they can see that you are not going to give in,that you cannot be frightened or intimidated,and that you know your rights they will move on to an easier target,but expect around 4 months from when the council pass the debt to the bailiffs to its eventual return to the council.The only way to get rid of the bailiffs from your doorstep is to show your as hard and as unforgiving to them as they are to you.

[Just_me]

Hi All,

I have a problem with Jacobs Bailiffs.

They came to my home after I left for work one morning, and banged on the door until my wife opened it.

She had just been about to get into the shower so was in her dressing gown when she opened the door. The agent pushed his way past her, wrote down 3 items on a Notice of Seizure of goods and inventory, and told her to sign at the bottom of the paperwork.

Point 1. This debt was passed to the bailiffs prior to the final bill from a previous property being sent to us from the local council.

Point 2. The agent was never asked into our property; he pushed his way in past my disabled wife.

Point 3. The items listed on the notice of seizure are on HP, and we do have the paperwork to prove it. Some of the details noted are incorrect - ie they have listed a TV as a 25 inch TV and it is a 32 inch TV.

 

Point 4. The bailiffs agreed a payment plan with my wife of a payment of £50.00 on 19th November 2010, then a next payment of £100 on my pay date - the final day of December 2010. Due to an error on the part of my employer not paying my wages correctly, I was unable to make the agreed payment on 31st December. I have telephoned the bailiffs office and was told that the payment due date had been inputted as 10th December, which was NOT what we had agreed to.

 

We are also paying £170 per month to catch up on another bill for council tax - but paying direct to the council. We asked the council to write to us when we moved to arrange payment of the bill outstanding, which they agreed to, but then sent it directly to the bailiffs because by the time they had calculated the bill it had passed the billing date! The council have agreed it should not have been sent to the bailiffs, but they "cannot do anything about it".

 

Can I pay direct to the council and get these idiots off my back? I really do not want to pay these muppets anything but am quite willing to pay direct to the council.

Can I refuse to allow them access to my property if I have a receipt from the council stating that payment has been made?

Can I complain to the council & the bailiffs for their conduct so far?

Many Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Ideally, you need the Bailiff company to pass the debt back. This is easier if the Bailiff has never entered your property, but not impossible after.

 

Is your wife registered disabled? If so, under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents provision is made to protect vulnerable adults and if you fall into one of these categories, it pretty much stops the Bailiff in their tracks (this applies to the household not the person)

 

Vulnerable persons are:

 

• Disabled

• The debtor or the debtor’s partner is suffering from a long term illness.

• Single parent

• Expectant mothers in the late stages of pregnancy.

• Elderly and /or infirm

• Individuals suffering from mental confusion

• People who are either blind or deaf.

• Persons where there has been a recent bereavement in the family.

• Those persons who’s first language is not English

• People who are in receipt of benefits.

 

Your rights change once the bailiff has gained "peaceful entry" to your property, and as they pushed past your wife, this does not constitue as peaceful entry, but they are not going to admit to this and you fall into the "their word against yours" scenario.

 

I would write them a letter something along the lines of "... although entry was gained to my property, the Enforcement Agent pushed past my disabled wife, which does not constitute as "peaceful entry" and as my wife is disabled, leaves the Enforcement Officer in breach of the National Standards of Enforcement Agents...." . Usually this is enough, but it wouldn't hurt to photocopy the HP agreements and send them with something along the lines of "...I would also like to point out the items listed on the walking possession order are under HP agreements and do not belong to me and thus cannot be siezed. I enclose proof of this for your perusal....". The Bailiff can only take the items listed, but I'm unsure whether they can regain entry to your home on the basis they've already managed to gain it.

 

The Local Authority are usually very difficult in dealing with you direct once the debt is passed to a Bailiff Company, but you could try writing to them and putting something the lines of "...You have passed this debt to an Enforcement Agent but as my wife is disabled, and the Enforcement Agent pushed past my wife in order to gain entry, he is in direct breach of the National Standards of Enforcement Agents. As the Agent is acting upon your instructions, you are duty bound to ensure that he acts in accordance with the aforementioned standards and are accountable for any breach..."

 

On a final note, the Bailiffs can only take items that belong to the person who's name is on the Warrant. So, if your name is on the Warrant, and everything belongs to your wife, simply go to a Solicitor, pay £5 to obtain a Notarized Statutory Declaration and word is something like ....

 

STATUTORY DECLARATION

 

I, [name] of [address]

 

make the following declaration under the Statutory Declarations Act 1835

 

[All items contained within the property]/[All the items in the schedule below within the property...] at the above address and within it's boundaries, are owned by my partner Ms XXXXXXX]. [There are no items within the property or it's boundaries belonging to any other person.]

 

[Schedule

 

]

 

I make this statement conscientiously believing the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of the Statutory Declaration Act 1835.

 

Signed:

 

Declared at___________________on__ ________________of 20___

 

Before me,

 

 

Full Name Qualification

 

Address

 

I am no expect on dealing with bailiffs, and I'm sure someone with more knowledge will give you much better advise, but this should point you in the right direction

 

On a final note, under NO circumstances deal with the Bailiff verbally. Make sure everything is in writing. They will lie to you over the phone because you have no proof and they want to force you into paying. They will misprepresent their powers to bully and frighten you into paying. Insist that the only form of contact you will have with them is in writing. Make sure you keep copies and be persistant.

 

Kind regards

Edited January 12, 2011 by Just_me

[Just_me]

I phoned my former council today and asked how much I owe them - they said they didn't know as it had been handed to bailiffs. I explained that I believed it was in the region of £188, but the bailiffs were asking for £635.98 "+ costs" which the bailiffs had been unable/unwilling to explain. The reply was "we don't know". I asked them if it was their policy to pursue arrears against people with a state income of £65 per week. They said "yes, you'll have to make an arrangement with the bailiff". I said that the bailiff refuses to agree to any reasonable arrangement. They said "sorry". I said "well I'll just pay you direct then". They said "ok".

 

As I type, I am expecting the bailiffs to attend my ex-partner's home, where they think I live. I don't, as I have had no fixed address since we split (amicably) 4 months ago. Clearly they have no business there whatsoever.

 

I have spoken to the bailiff in question following a previous visit to my ex's home, and was threatened with arrest and imprisonment, which I didn't buy for one minute, but it left me very shaken nevertheless. How do I deal with (i.e. get rid of) these people, both immediately, and long-term?

 

I am contemplating bankruptcy due to other debts incurred in a vicious divorce, but haven't yet raised the £450 fee!

 

Where no Levy or seizure is made, the Bailiff can only charge £24.50 for the first visit and £18 for the second. The Bailiffs are simply Enforcement Officers. They cannot arrange for your arrest. You can only be arrested for non payment of Council Tax if you make no attempt to repay it.

 

Again, this is typical of the things Bailiffs will say in order to frighten you. It is a misrepresentation of their powers and can result in the Enforcement Agent losing his licence (if you have proof).

 

Write to the enforcement agent. As you do not live at the address, get your ex to go to a Solicitor and obtain a Notorised Statutory Declaration as in my previoius post and send it to them

 

Also ask the Bailiff Company to give you an itemised list of their costs. They are obliged by Law to do this and it may be an offense if they refuse.

 

Finally, You can ask the Council the amount of the original debt and if you pay to them direct your debt with them is cleared. I don't know whether you are still liable for the bailiff charges but if you pay the debt via the Bailiff they will deduct their charges first. Not sure on the legality here, but surely there is a legal arguement that once you have no debt with the Council they cannot continue to contract an Enforcement Agency to recover that debt, because there isn't one? Therefore, the Bailiff are no longer acting on behalf of the Council? So, in order to recover their costs, the Bailiff Company would have to take their own legal action against you? This is not my knowlege, I am simply guessing it may be the case and maybe someone can clarify this.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Just_me

[ploddertom]

Where no Levy or seizure is made, the Bailiff can only charge £20 for the first visit and £15 for the second. The Bailiffs are simply Enforcement Officers. They cannot arrange for your arrest. You can only be arrested for non payment of Council Tax if you make no attempt to repay it.

Please note current fees are £24-50 1st Visit & £18-00 2nd Visit

 

PT

[Just_me]

Please note current fees are £24-50 1st Visit & £18-00 2nd Visit

 

PT

 

I knew I'd forgotten to put something lol. I meant to put an NB at the bottom stating this was an old rate and only a "guide" price.

 

Thanks for that.

[cirta]

hi to all im new in here plz i need same advise if u can help

 

after missing three payment off my council tax .they decide to give it to the bailiffs ..well is sofunnythe morning i call the council and payed my full bill till next march ..i recive red letter throw my door ???? saying we have levy ur sky dish ..and u have to pay ur bill next 7 days and our fees now stand for 207 pound ????i call the bailiffs and told them i have payed my council in full ...he was mad and told me way did i payed them direct ..i make jock and told them since alwas ..but now he is saying he will force the laws bla bla bla and he will levy me ect ect ..i told him send me the full breakdown off his fees in writing ..and we will go to the court and judge will decide ...till now he still calling me and text me and even offer me to negoation regrding his fees ..i told him i need break down in writing ....plz i need same one write for me letters to council and bailiffs to stop him keeping hasseling me ..and keep ur post caming

belive me the bailiffs are losing the battle ..many thanks

[Fleur007]

Wow that letter is great, I shall be using that, but firstly wondered if I went to the Council, would they stop the warrant the bailiff has to remove my property? I am willing to scrap my car this weekend and refund the road tax, to take them most of what I owe, instead of waiting to sell it, then set up a direct debit for the rest before the new bill is issued in March... ( My ex has bought me another car, so i'm not car less)

I had a visit on Wednesday, from Whyte & Co. I was at work at the time, he left a Notification of Intended Bailiff Removal (Take formal notice that Bailiffs have called today to remove sufficient goods to satisfy an outstanding liability) etc ect....

I had totally forgotton that I still owed some Council Tax, and was sure it was only around £50. My Mother died in March and dealing with Debt had left my mind, for quite a while. I looked for the last letter I had from the Council, as I'm single and a single parent working 20 hours a week, I was sure I am awarded benefit.

The last letter I received from the Council dated april 2010 does in fact confirm I owe them £317.42 (with balance bought forward) possibly more now, due to court action.

 

The letter left by the Bailiff advised me to contact him in the next 24hours, to avoid such action. I rang him, (before I'd found the letter from the Council, dated April) and told him I thought I only owed around £50, he said it was over £500 PLUS the visiting charges, hire of his van costs etc etc. I explained I do not have that kind of money and was sure I didnt owe that kind of money! He told me to get in touch with the council, he was blunt and rude, and also using the phone whilst driving! I have not contacted the council due to work and no money to buy credit to phone them, I also want to scrap the old car in order to have a lump sum to offer them first. I am worried sick, Ive parked my newer car away from my house, in case he returns and clamps it or removes it..... The other car is far away. I am off work today as I feel so ill with worry. Please advise me.

 

Thank you.

 

Fleur

[hallowitch]

Wow that letter is great, I shall be using that, but firstly wondered if I went to the Council, would they stop the warrant the bailiff has to remove my property? I am willing to scrap my car this weekend and refund the road tax, to take them most of what I owe, instead of waiting to sell it, then set up a direct debit for the rest before the new bill is issued in March... ( My ex has bought me another car, so I'm not car less)

I had a visit on Wednesday, from Whyte & Co. I was at work at the time, he left a Notification of Intended Bailiff Removal (Take formal notice that Bailiffs have called today to remove sufficient goods to satisfy an outstanding liability) etc ect....

I had totally forgotton that I still owed some Council Tax, and was sure it was only around £50. My Mother died in March and dealing with Debt had left my mind, for quite a while. I looked for the last letter I had from the Council, as I'm single and a single parent working 20 hours a week, I was sure I am awarded benefit.

The last letter I received from the Council dated april 2010 does in fact confirm I owe them £317.42 (with balance bought forward) possibly more now, due to court action.

 

The letter left by the Bailiff advised me to contact him in the next 24hours, to avoid such action. I rang him, (before I'd found the letter from the Council, dated April) and told him I thought I only owed around £50, he said it was over £500 PLUS the visiting charges, hire of his van costs etc etc. I explained I do not have that kind of money and was sure I didnt owe that kind of money! He told me to get in touch with the council, he was blunt and rude, and also using the phone whilst driving! I have not contacted the council due to work and no money to buy credit to phone them, I also want to scrap the old car in order to have a lump sum to offer them first. I am worried sick, Ive parked my newer car away from my house, in case he returns and clamps it or removes it..... The other car is far away. I am off work today as I feel so ill with worry. Please advise me.

 

Thank you.

 

Fleur

 

welcome to CAG can you please start your own thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168 copy and paste your post (it saves you writing it again) I'm wondering about the van fees he is trying to charge you a van fee can only be charged if they have a levy on goods

[sjl2]

Finally, You can ask the Council the amount of the original debt and if you pay to them direct your debt with them is cleared. I don't know whether you are still liable for the bailiff charges but if you pay the debt via the Bailiff they will deduct their charges first. Not sure on the legality here, but surely there is a legal arguement that once you have no debt with the Council they cannot continue to contract an Enforcement Agency to recover that debt, because there isn't one? Therefore, the Bailiff are no longer acting on behalf of the Council? So, in order to recover their costs, the Bailiff Company would have to take their own legal action against you? This is not my knowlege, I am simply guessing it may be the case and maybe someone can clarify this.

 

I have spoken to my local council, and if you pay them directly then this DOES NOT include any Bailiffs charges etc; I am unsure if this differs between different councils...... Mine is Bolton Council.

Cheers.

[rippedoffithink]

ok thx

[knigget]

User Address 1

User Address 2

User Address 3

User PostCode

9th January, 2010

Recorded Delivery

Tracking Number: ___________________

Protagonist Name

Protagonist Address 2

Protagonist Address 3

Protagonist PostCode

Dear Sirs,

Notice and Demand

DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE

Notice to Principal is Notice to Agent; Notice to Agent is Notice to Principal.

Regarding Reference: Reference or Account, your correspondence dated XX/XX/XXXX.

Please read the following Notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

Thank you for your letter of XX/XX/XXXX. It has come to my attention that there may be deficiencies in any alleged contract between us. If that is the case, it brings into question the validity of your claim and any contract between us. Therefore, I hereby give you notice that there is a question regarding the validity of any contract between us. In order to be satisfied that any such contract is valid, I therefore require the following:

1. Validation of the debt (the actual accounting and full statements for the life of the account);

2. Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice);

3. A copy of a lawfully-binding contract between us, showing equal considerations from each party's own resources, and including evidence of intent to contract.

I hereby give you ten (10) days to reply to this notice from the date you receive this communication with a notice sent using recorded post and signed under full commercial liability and penalty of perjury, assuring and promising me that all of the replies and details given to the above requests are true, correct and complete and without deception, fraud or mischief. Your failure to provide all of the aforementioned documentation in the manner described within ten (10) days from the date you receive this communication constitutes your agreement to the following terms:

1. That the debt did not exist in the first place;

OR

2. It has already been paid in full;

AND/OR

3. Any contract was voidable from the start.

AND

4. That you accept liability for any damages I suffer as a result of your actions;

5. That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency have been removed and that you will so inform me within thirty (30) days from the date you receive this communication;

6. You abandon your claim and will pursue this matter no further.

Please be advised that I am keeping a written record of all correspondence in this regard and therefore do not consent to discuss this matter over the telephone. Any future communications must be written, otherwise you are hereby given notice that they will be ignored without dishonour on my part. Any telephone calls regarding this matter, whether by an actual person, or a computerised system, or personal visits; will be deemed harassment and dealt with accordingly.

Any previous acknowledgement by me of any alleged debt is hereby withdrawn as having been obtained under duress.

Please notice that the commonly accepted principles of good faith demand that if you have any reasonable objections to this Notice and Demand, that you immediately state any and all such objections and not harbour any hidden objections with which to surprise me later. Therefore it is my reasonable expectation that should you not offer any specific objections to any part of this Notice and Demand, sent to me by recorded delivery within ten (10) days from your receipt of same, that I may presume your agreement to the above terms.

I will presume silence to mean acquiescence in all these matters.

Yours sincerely without ill-will, vexation or frivolity,

Signed........

 

If they get a little clever with you ..the best thing to do is to refute their claim against you..any Bailiff/ Debt Collection Agency is a third party interloper and as such you have no contract with them,( In fact if you really wanted to upset them you could quite easily prove that the debt has been paid to them when the Debt Collection Agency bought the debt from the original lender, thus clearing you of any obligation) you can show this is the case by having them answer the letter above.( Which is totally impossible for them to do as there was no contract with them in the first place).It is also good to bear in mind that while you are disputing their right to chase you for any debt and and all collection practices they are using against you By law must cease, Remember also that they can con you into admitting you have a contract with them so never answer any calls on your phone from them and certainly never give them the name and address or any agreement number you may have to do with this case as if you do you give them jurisdiction over you and could be construed as verbally contracting with them..Keep it to letters only that way any threats they make towards you are on paper and can be used against them in court..Don't be bullied by them..they have no legal standing with you. The only time they can forcefully enter your home is if they have a signed warrant ( Must be signed by a Justice of the peace.not a clerk of the court.) along with a list of goods that can be "Lawfully" removed as payment of any "lawfully attributed debt" you may have with them. and they must have a Police officer with them at your request to ensure they work to the letter of the law and to ensure that they don't take what they are not "lawfully" allowed to. They work for who ever the debt in owned by ..would you let someone from Asda into your house to take your things?..NO ..they have about the same powers as an Asda shelf stacker.!

Good luck all..let us know how you get on..

[gearjamma]

Hi knigget,i used the very same letter to Active Kapital over a £1300 debt to loyds tsb,they sent me a letter stating that they could not provide the relevant paper-work therefore they were no longer persuing the debt, this was after only 4 days . GREAT RESULT..I have since passed this letter to several friends who were amazed when i showed them the reply i received from Active Kapital.

[dx100uk]

this thread is for ref only

 

please start your own thread

 

dx

siteteam.