not getting £425 deposit back :(

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

1.You should be able to get your £39 if the case is heard.

 

2.The expenses should not include this fee.

 

3.Of course,again this would depend on the judge.However,as a rule of thumb the costs are normally awarded in favour of the winner plus the court fee.

 

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

[Cpt Black]

So you should separate costs (ie court costs) from expenses (waiting in line at post office, cost of postage etc.) And you shouldn't itemise the expenses, just a rough outline (with predicted amounts)? and then the judge decides (if you are in the right in his view) which costs are appropriate and if the amounts are justified, whether too high or low.

 

correct?

 

CB

[Nightmare4banks]

Cpt Black in reply to your last post:

 

1.The court fee has nothing to do with deciding the outcome of the case so it should not be mentioned to be claimed back.Also,in my view it looks like the person persuing the claim has already assumed that the judge has made his/her mind up to be on the claimant/persuer's side - not very good.One should never assume how a judge would deal with a particular case.

 

2.Other reasonable expenses should be mentioned.

 

3.Knoxvillian should challenge the excessive cleaning costs and any other excessive deductions.

 

4.Don't forget judges always apply the REASONABILITY TEST in their decisions.You therefore have to ask yourself would a reasonable person pay £x for bla bla ??

 

5.Here knoxvillian (as I have mentioned before) should see to intimidate the landlord with the potential £750 including interest claim and avoid

a hearing at all costs.

 

Anyway,this is my 2p's worth!

[Cpt Black]

Cheers, thanks for clearing that up, helped me and hopefully Knox as well!

[knoxvillain]

Sorry, have been away on a training course with work. Will look at this more in depth tomorrow when I'm more awake. Have driven 7.5 hours today from London to Edinburgh *yawn*

[knoxvillain]

ok, so you know how he said the "internet things" I sent him meant nothing to him (referring to both the ARLA Guidlelines printout and the print out of a shopping basket showing that i could get a kitchen panel for £30? Well I managed to get a local kitchen company to provide me with a proper quote for the side panel for £47.60 Even if I had agreed to pay everything else at the level he asked, he would still now owe me some of my deposit back even if I gave him 1 hour's labour for the kitchen unit at £20 an hour.

[knoxvillain]

Appointment arranged with Citizen's Advice Monday morning.

[demon_x_slash]

Let us know how you get on

[knoxvillain]

will do, have a good weekend, I'll post again on mon

[knoxvillain]

Just came back from CAB. They recon I have been absolutely reasonable and that I have a very good case against my Landlord so I'm gonna fill in the court papers now and small claims here we come

[Cpt Black]

cool, good luck!

[knoxvillain]

The pursuer, knoxvillain, leased the property at 21/8 xxxxxxx Street, xxxxxxx, West Lothian, xxxx xxx from the defender, xxxxxx Property Developments Ltd, between 4th November 2005 and 17th November 2006. The pursuer paid a deposit of £435 to the defendant at the start of the lease.

 

Upon departure from the property, the deposit was not returned to the pursuer. Despite several requests, the defender has refused to return any of the deposit and has failed to provide adequate documentation accounting for the use of the deposit for repairs & cleaning. Copies of all correspondence, along with proof of delivery, have been enclosed and are indexed and detailed below. The originals of each of these items will be brought to court.

 

The pursuer admits that there was damage to the decor of the property and a small amount of damage to a kitchen unit caused by a puppy chewing on it. The pursuer contends that the £435 retained, along with the additional £662.33 requested, by the defender does not accurately reflect the level of repairs required to restore the property back to the condition it was in at the start of the tenancy (allowing for 12 months of wear and tear). The pursuer calculates that £202.85 will reasonably cover the work required.

 

The pursuer claims a sum equivalent to the remaining amount of deposit after required repairs and cleaning costs. The sum of £232.15 along with £4.07 in interest. A total claim of £236.22 plus the costs of bringing this action.

 

CAB advised that they didn't think it was possible to lodge a claim for an undefined amount.

[Cpt Black]

don't forget the daily rate of interest

[Cpt Black]

oh, and costs allowed by court instead?

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your post:

 

What was the reason(s) given by the CAB for not being able to persue an undefined claim?

 

Because in my view,this seems a bit odd.

[knoxvillain]

We didn't talk about it for very long at all, I just quickly asked about it but they basically didn't think it was reasonable to make a judge decide every detail of the claim, plus in my last 2 letters, I have clearly stated what I am and am not willing to pay so the judge would see these and uphold the ones I have said I am willing to pay so basically I am seeking the return of £232.15 and thats what I should be sueing for apparently.

[knoxvillain]

that's the summons on the way to court bring it on, just wish i could have served it to him in person.

[MrShed]

First of all, apologies for not replying to this thread sooner. As you correctly surmised KV, I was aware from the forums for a while. But now I'm back!!

 

Secondly, thank you for correcting my figure on the hourly rate that can be charged, apparently you learn something every day!! KV, out of interest so I can bookmark it for the next person who asks where it states it, where did you find the £9.25 figure? Do you have a link?

 

Finally, a few points I believe are worth mentioning with the aim of raising them in court. Apologies if they have been mentioned before, I got a bit lost reading the many posts!

 

- As far as I can see, one of the most important questions has been missed. As I understand from KV from a PM, the check in inventory was NOT signed by himself upon taking possession of the property. Unless an inventory is signed by the tenant, preferably at the bottom of each page, it is pretty much as worthless as the paper it is written on. Then to expand that, the onus in court is on the landlord to prove damages, rather than you to disprove them. As he has no documented proof as to the condition of the property on you moving in, he cannot prove that the property has deteriorated over the course of the tenancy. As such, he cannot deduct from the deposit, full stop.

 

- When charging for damages, the landlord can only deduct an amount for "like for like" replacements. So, if the cupboard chewed was a ten year old cupboard, he can only charge for the amount a cupboard of the same age and condition would cost him. Obviously this is difficult to calculate, but it goes without saying that the cost would be substantially less than half the cost of a new unit.

 

As a point of interest, and without wanting to spark a debate, I must strongly disagree with a sentiment above from N4B(I think!!), with all due respect, where he said that non payment of bills may have a detrimental effect upon the tenant in a court case. A court would not(and indeed must not) consider such things, as they have absolutely nothing to do with the landlord, nor the case in hand. Expressing this is no different from saying that a tenant would be looked down upon in a court case against his landlord for having an unpaid credit card bill. It is something completely unrelated, and as such can have no effect on either the tenancy, nor subsequent court appearances regarding it. All that said, strange things happen in court!!!!

 

I hope this may help in some small way, I suspect I have come in too late to be of any real assistance!! But good luck, and I hope that it goes well..let us know!

[Nightmare4banks]

Knoxvillian in reply to your last post:

 

1.What you are saying makes sense.Anyway,if you win you will get your fees as well back.However,Mr.Shed did bring up the issue about the inventory as it is essential that it would be signed by both the landlord/tenant otherwise any deductions on part of the owner would not be feasable.

 

Mr.Shed,I will tend to disagree with you with all respect and of course you would not find a better person that would more than like to entertain a sensible debate about anything like myself.Just to add a credit card debt is a personal debt and associated with that particular person whereas the bills that I had previously mentioned are associated with the property together with other related comments/potential arguments on behalf of the landlord in this sort of scenario.Whether the court accepts the landlord's argument or not this is a totally seperate matter.

 

Anyway,this is my 2p's worth!

 

Also,Knoxvillian good luck!

[MrShed]

Glad someone in internetland understands the difference between a legitimate debate and personal attacks N4B . My reasoning is, and I could be wrong, as far as I know utility bills, although provided to a property, are not actually associated with the property, in much the same way as home catalogue shopping(what a bad example!!) goods are sent to a particular property, but the debt is the persons. Just because the utilities are more inherent to the property, doesn't change the fact that it is simply a service provided to a person rather than a property. However, I do not want to detract too much from KVs main points, so shall make that my last tuppence worth!!

[Nightmare4banks]

Mr.Shed,

 

I could rant on forever!

Damn but you have stopped me!lol!

[MrShed]

Mr.Shed,

 

I could rant on forever!

Damn but you have stopped me!lol!

 

My subtle plan worked I see

[Nightmare4banks]

Mr.Shed,

 

Sorry to be a party pooper,but not for long!lol!

[knoxvillain]

MrShed, welcome back and thanks for responding to my thread

 

In response to your question about the hourly rate, the links are:

 

http://www.dca.gov.uk/civil/procrule.../pd_part48.pdf

 

and

 

http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/documen...ocumentid=4108

 

 

use the search facility to search for 9.25 and it will fetch up the relevant section.

 

It doesn't relate specifically to landlords carrying out work but is obviously a figure that the courts deem a reasonable hourly rate. With many thanks to davidjohnbutton a member of the forums at landlordzone.com (of which I believe you are also a member MrShed ) for providing me with these links.

 

In relation to bills, these don't really matter in my case as all my bills were paid and documented evidence provided to my landlord. To the best of my knowledge, the landlord isn't disputing this.

 

Also, much as I appreciate the fact that I probably didn't sign the inventory, I've not come here to try and get out of giving my landlord what he's due for the damage to his property. I am here to give him what he is due and nothing more and to ensure it is resolved fairly, by the courts if necessary. I could no longer argue the non-signing of the inventory as I have indirectly acknowledged the damage in letters to my ex-landlord and I have also explicitly admitted the damage in my small claims court papers. Something I don't mind doing. I want the judge to see that I have been reasonable through-out this whole process and hold that up against my landlord who's been trying to "screw me over" (funny enough that's the words that CAB used).

[knoxvillain]

My fiancee recently filed against BoS for her charges and the hearing date fell when we are due to be on honeymoon. Luckily she is settling out of court so it's not an issue. What's worrying me is that my hearing date against my Landbaron fall during my honeymoon. if this happens, is it possible to ask the court to move it?