CWD - PAP Letter re old UAE debt now claim form

[Hornsey62]

Just got out. Judge allowed jurisdiction 

[Hornsey62]

Just on the way home will update more when I get back.

[fkofilee]

Plz do

[rgaine]

On 26/03/2019 at 16:08, Hornsey62 said:

Just on the way home will update more when I get back.

I hope you appealed it and if you need any supporting evidence on how the banks and agents treat people then let me know.

[Versus]

Sadly, the courts do not appear to care how people are treated. 

 

Jurisdiction should not be left to a judge to decide on a local level.  We need to wait for  full update from Hornsey 

[Hornsey62]

Hi 

 

Trying to remember everything but may come back in bits.

 

The judge started of by explaining how she would come to a decision on whether to accept jurisdiction.

 

She asked for my thoughts. I spoke about whether the jurisdiction clause meant non exclusive in the UAE as they have many jurisdictionst there but she wasn't having that.

 

She asked if uk was my main residence.

 

So the Barrister referred to the Rome regulation and went through case studies. He also pointed out that Dubai courts have non exclusive jurisdiction.

 

Judge said she had no choice as many foreign cases heard here to protect European defendants from being sued in other countries that are volatile like the UAE

 

As I remember more I will share but just wanted to update quickly for everyone.

 

She did cut their costs in half.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, rgaine said:

I hope you appealed it and if you need any supporting evidence on how the banks and agents treat people then let me know. W******

 

There was no chance to appeal and I'm afraid the judge was only interested in the law and nothing else.

 

She's given 21 days to defend the money claim if I wish to.

 

A lot of the time was going over successful foreign claims and her explaining everything to me.

 

She did knock out CWDs £200 costs for looking at cag! 

 

I'm sorry it's not better news for everyone.

[Andyorch]

If their costs were £4300 and you state she cut them in half...but then you state she knocked off £200 ?

[Versus]

I think that they mean

 that part of the cut was the cag 200.00

[Hornsey62]

She did..but £200 was for them looking at cag.

 

She said their costs were far too high for where the court was based.

 

Andy 

 

Thank you for all your help.

 

Wouldn't have known where to start without you.

[Versus]

Thank you for taking the time to share everything..it must be really hard after such a shitty day. 

 

And don't give up. Especially given the fact that they have added so many charges to the original debt. You have all the protections of the law on your side moving forwards. 

 

It is not the best decision a judge has ever made. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Versus

[Hornsey62]

Thanks Versus

 

It hasn't really sunk in yet.

 

Think I will defend if I can.

[Versus]

You must defend against the additional costs as a minimum. Iam sure people here will assist you in that.

[Hornsey62]

Yes I'm not leaving here! 

 

Maybe I didn't defend well enough..very daunting being up against a Barrister.

[rgaine]

31 minutes ago, Hornsey62 said:

Hi 

 

Trying to remember everything but may come back in bits.

 

The judge started of by explaining how she would come to a decision on whether to accept jurisdiction.

 

She asked for my thoughts. I spoke about whether the jurisdiction clause meant non exclusive in the UAE as they have many jurisdictionst there but she wasn't having that.

 

She asked if uk was my main residence.

 

So the Barrister referred to the Rome regulation and went through case studies. He also pointed out that Dubai courts have non exclusive jurisdiction.

 

Judge said she had no choice as many foreign cases heard here to protect European defendants from being sued in other countries that are volatile like the UAE

 

As I remember more I will share but just wanted to update quickly for everyone.

 

She did cut their costs in half.

 

 

But what about all the rules and regulations broken by agents in Dubai and also CWD themselves. Surely that has to count for something ? I look forward to my day I will take them all the way I can 

[Andyorch]

You must defend...although we may not be much help as we are not versed in UAE law nor is the Judge I would suspect..but dont let them get a default judgment otherwise you are not putting the court to the test to be able to quantify its ruling.The judge has basically thrown out CPR 11 because if you can try a UAE credit agreement under English Law you can try almost any agreement from any part of the world.

 

You will have 14 days to acknowledge service and the court will direct to submit a defence.

 

(7) If on an application under this rule the court does not make a declaration –

(a) the acknowledgment of service shall cease to have effect;

(b) the defendant may file a further acknowledgment of service within 14 days or such other period as the court may direct; and

(c) the court shall give directions as to the filing and service of the defence in a claim under Part 7 or the filing of evidence in a claim under Part 8 in the event that a further acknowledgment of service is filed.

(8) If the defendant files a further acknowledgment of service in accordance with paragraph (7)(b) he shall be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.

(9) If a defendant makes an application under this rule, he must file and serve his written evidence in support with the application notice, but he need not before the hearing of the application file –

(a) in a Part 7 claim, a defence; 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11

[Hornsey62]

I will defend Andy and the judge has let me bypass AOS and given me 21 days to submit my defence.

 

 

[Andyorch]

As I said she has basically disregarded CPR 11 

 

Although she may have done you a favour......

 

(8) If the defendant files a further acknowledgment of service in accordance with paragraph (7)(b) he shall be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.

[Versus]

22 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

You must defend...although we may not be much help as we are not versed in UAE law nor is the Judge I would suspect..but dont let them get a default judgment otherwise you are not putting the court to the test to be able to quantify its ruling.The judge has basically thrown out CPR 11 because if you can try a UAE credit agreement under English Law you can try almost any agreement from any part of the world.

 

You will have 14 days to acknowledge service and the court will direct to submit a defence.

 

(7) If on an application under this rule the court does not make a declaration –

(a) the acknowledgment of service shall cease to have effect;

(b) the defendant may file a further acknowledgment of service within 14 days or such other period as the court may direct; and

(c) the court shall give directions as to the filing and service of the defence in a claim under Part 7 or the filing of evidence in a claim under Part 8 in the event that a further acknowledgment of service is filed.

(8) If the defendant files a further acknowledgment of service in accordance with paragraph (7)(b) he shall be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.

(9) If a defendant makes an application under this rule, he must file and serve his written evidence in support with the application notice, but he need not before the hearing of the application file –

(a) in a Part 7 claim, a defence; 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part11

 

 

Andy.... kicking this around isnt the fact that it is being tried under UAE Laws and not UK.... just under UK Jurisdiction?

 

What of the risk of parallel proceedings?

 

What of the fact that the UAE may have kicked off proceeding already in criminal courts? (Hornsey you will need to establish that they have ...)

What of the fact that the UAE criminalises debt?

 

What of the fact that UK Judgements are unlikely to be upheld in the UAE ?

 

What of Public Policy? 

 

ibid: "The law relating to the enforcement of foreign judgements and the law relating to international insolvency are not areas of law which have in recent times been left to be developed by judge-made law."  

 

CWD are shrewd... but must be outed. 

 

 

[Versus]

7 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

As I said she has basically disregarded CPR 11 

 

Sadly, I do not think she has. 

 

 

She (The judge)  has made a 'wrong call' based upon the 'authority' that was presented by CWD and not challenged. Because a litigant in person does not know how or what to do. That is why it is unjust

 

But she has followed 11.

 

The issue will be of consent to Jurisdiction.... which can be challenged.

 

(not looking for an argument here by the way.... )

 

 

[Hornsey62]

Guys 

 

I felt very intimidated in the court today because I have no knowledge of the law and anything I did challenge I couldn't back it up when either one came back at me.

 

Us common people who can't afford good legal advice are bound to lose when you have to stick to the letter of the law because we don't get it and being a litigant in person you don't feel you can challenge much and you haven't got the knowledge.

 

I don't feel justice was done today..if I'd had a good Barrister maybe it would have gone in my favour.

 

Way if the world sadly and when it's sunk in I know I will be angry.

 

We all want the same things here..but what to do ?

[hzeee]

Hornsey - this negative outcome is not what I was hoping to read when I was refreshing this page all afternoon.

I am by no means a legal expert, but I think the situation as you’ve described it is unfair and I would have hoped that the judge could have seen through that

- who as an individual can stand in the face of a financial institution and its resources.

 

Having said that, I think now they put you in a position where your back is against the wall and you have to fight back.

 

I will continue my research and if anything I come across I’ll share.

 

My thoughts are with you.

[rgaine]

Agree.

 

We have to keep pushing and searching for ways to fight this.

 

Totally unfair and I know we all have different stories but there is no way I will stand for that after 9 years of abuse from them.

 

I have all evidence also and could not care less if anyone of them from CWD or IDRWW are reading this. 

 

I will use all means needed from the media to the court of human rights if I have to. 

 

All I ever wanted to do was make monthly payments which by now most of the debt could of been paid off but no that’s not enough for them. 

[Hornsey62]

Thank you hzeee

 

It really does help to know you're not alone.

 

Now it's sinking in I don't think I was given a fair hearing.  As someone said yesterday the judge is the biggest gun in the room and everything depends on them.  What judge wants a big solicitors firm appealing their decision!  Calling them out. Better a litigant in person who can't stand up for injustice.

 

Don't forget CWD watch everything on here. 

[Hornsey62]

Well that's what the courts are saying..we will hear it here and then you have protection of the UK.  They don't want to know what's gone on before!

[dx100uk]

Also dont forget UAE and their money are very very powerful in the uk and you never know who is in their pockets.