Bankruptcy and My Pension

[petertheheater]

Hello.

I was made bankrupt in December 1998, I was not aware of this until a couple of years ago whilst enquiring about my pension and they told me about my bankruptcy.

I have recently been in touch with the Official receiver and have completed my telephone interview, they have written to the courts and confirm that my bankruptcy will end in 1 years time even though my order at the time came under the 3 year rule.

They inform me that my pension still forms part of my original debt and that I will not be able to access this.

 

My question is, can I appeal or do anything to get my pension back, it is only worth about 25,000 pound but it is a lot to me as I am on disability payments for a terminal lung disease.

 

I left the UK in 1997 and currently live in Ireland but I have family in London.

 

Can anyone advise me on this or put me in touch with a solicitor (who doesn't charge 200 per hour)

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

I will try and find someone who might be able to help.

[petertheheater]

Thank you so much

[citizenB]

[citizenB]

 

I was made bankrupt in December 1998, I was not aware of this until a couple of years ago whilst enquiring about my pension and they told me about my bankruptcy.

 

To save time later, I am just asking questions that are likely to be raised.

 

You say you were made bankrupt in 1998 and that you will be released from this next year - 2016. 18 years seems like a very long time ? Do you know why this is ?

 

You also say you were not aware of this until a couple of years ago ? Were you not served with a Bankruptcy Petition giving you the opportunity to respond ?

 

Can you say for how much the BR was for ?

[petertheheater]

My bankruptcy discharge was suspended indefinitely because I did not cooperate with the or,how could I as I did not know.

I was not served with any notice. I have been told that one company filed for my bankruptcy for the amount of approx 10,000 and there are to other debtors for 4600 and 300.

[citizenB]

Righto, that information will be useful, thank you

[petertheheater]

When I was informed about my bankruptcy I checked the insolvency register but could not find it but I did find my trading name at the time. I have since found out that they did not have my full name or my date of birth.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I know more about pensions than bankruptcy. Can you tell us how your pension became involved in the bankruptcy process please? I thought that generally they were protected.

 

What type of pension did you have, an employer one or a private one in your own name?

 

Please tell us more, but I will also mention TPAS, the pension advisory service, who might be able to help you on the phone on Monday. Let's see if we can find out more about your query though.

 

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/

 

HB

[Ruleoflaw]

Honeybee,

 

 

Under Insolvency law a pension is safe ie not forming part of a bankrupt's estate if it is through 'an approved arrangement.' According to Official Receiver rules many are likely to be within this criteria. However, the Receiver can also act as 'trustee' of bankrupt's estate for the benefit of his estate. If this were to apply, then the Receiver can take a pension income if the bankrupt draws money from that pension.

 

 

The Official Receiver tried to take my relative's endowment which was linked to pay the mortgage, as according to them it pertains to bankrupt's estate. I even got in touch with the family's solicitor, and the Insolvency Service online where I spoke to a manager. They all said to me, yes an endowment is an asset and there's nothing you can do about it. I knew that it sounded wrong so i eventually found the right answer in the receiver's Technical Manual. The Manual incidentally is what the trustees/ receivers use.

[citizenB]

Some links that might prove useful.

 

http://debtcamel.co.uk/pension-safe-bankrupt/

 

 

Case 4) Bankrupt after 2000 and undischarged

The Official Receiver will not tell you to take any money out of your undrawn pension.

If you choose to take a lump sum from your pension before you are discharged, this would be treated as an “after acquired” asset and you would have to pay it to the Official Receiver. You should therefore delay withdrawing any money until you are discharged.

If you choose to take an income from your pension, this will be taken into account in IPA calculations. It would usually be better to delay taking this until after your IPA has ended, or until after your discharge if no IPA has been set.

 

Once you are discharged, Case 3 will apply to you. If you went bankrupt after 5 April 2015, Case 5 also applies to you.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guide-to-bankruptcy

[petertheheater]

Thank you,sorry for late reply,

 

I have a private pension with the Prudential, I am not sure how they have my pension I assume it was before the law changed in early 00,s.

I will contact that number on Monday morning.

 

Thanks Again

 

Peter

[honeybee13]

Hi Peter.

 

Yes, I can see that there was a change in 2000, hope it doesn't affect you.TPAS should be able to tell you.

 

They will probably ask what type of pension it was. Do you have the Pru's scheme name to hand? It could be something like a [self-employed] personal pension, self-employed retirement annuity, it depends when you took it out. The name would be useful to know.

 

HB

[Ruleoflaw]

Peter, I will answer the main terms of your question. "..or put me in touch with a solicitor.." There are such law forum online (for free). This is a complex 'legal' situation. You say "..I did find my trading name." So, you were trading as company, were you a sole trader or limited company? This is more commercial law than consumer law. You may be able to argue that the debt was in the name of company. Tell us more about the company. Was the Company in your sole name , if that's the case I believe the debt transfers to you. If the debt was in the name of company itself, then you may not be liable for the debt, in which case the pension is not an asset of the company but rather yours and not part of your estate.

 

 

"I left the UK in 1997 and currently live in Ireland..." Yes, the Insolvency law applicable period is 1998 when you/ the company were made bankrupt so in essence if you were not transparent or concealed facts on a formal investigative interview the normal one year insolvency period is extended. Peter, I have completed a law degree but your circumstance is beyond my competence. I hope I have given you some substantive ideas though.

[petertheheater]

Thank you Ruleoflaw,

 

I was a sole trader, so it was "my name" trading as " trade name". Only my first initial and surname was on the register and also separately my trading name.

I have never received any paperwork or information pertaining to the original bankruptcy, how can I find this out (court papers etc ?)

 

Thanks

[Ruleoflaw]

Your estate was transferred to the Official Receiver when you were made bankrupt so it is the Receiver who will have any information on your bankruptcy. It will either be the Insolvency Service for England/ Wales, or Ireland, depending on where you were made bankrupt.

[Ruleoflaw]

Peter

 

 

 

For legal purposes a sole trader is not recognised as a company. One person could form a company (incorporation) under the Company Act 2006. You were made bankrupt in 1998 so you would not have benefitted from this refuge either. Unfortunately, as you were a sole trader, you're unfortunately responsible for all your liabilities, including all your debts, so they can take your estate which includes your 'pension,' albeit subject to Insolvency's Receiver satisfying the statutory criteria. It is grossly unfair that they can take your pension or your home etc. Some of us are not so Conservative minded (or with a small c). I don't practice law but I did study the relevant law, ie commercial transactions albeit it am rather rusty. I do however still have access to my course's materials for a basic guide although law is changing constantly.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Ruleoflaw

[petertheheater]

Thank you again for your help.

I suppose I will have to contact a solicitor who specialises in bankruptcy law, can you or anyone recommend one for me?

[citizenB]

Peter, very sorry but we are not permitted to recommend solicitors

 

You might want to contact Citizen Advice Bureau - they usually have a list of solicitors that do a free or reduced, 1st session and could also direct you to a firm that does deal in BR.

[Ruleoflaw]

Peter

 

 

Your facts: Bankrupt, December 1998. Q. Appeal/ get my pension back? Pension = £25k. Disability payments for a terminal lung disease.

 

 

The Parliament Ombudsman is a route you could take, however, you will have to make a complaint to the Insolvency Service in England first and go through their complaint procedure. If you were to go through said Ombudsman, your MP would need to facilitate this given it's a Parliamentary competence. However, Ombudsman have the power of a high court judge. The Parliament Ombudsman will therefore have these types of power at the least.

 

 

I am so sorry you're suffering with not much time left to live. Argue that you are being either directly or indirectly discriminated owing to age and a terminal disability/ lung disease. You are being deprived of a pension income that may be small compared to richer persons however you have worked all your life, and dying elederly man such as your person ought not to be deprived of this in a democratic country. Notwithstanding, also argue the moral dimension of the Rule of Law (A V Dicey/ judge Thomas Bingham) ought not to oppress the dying/ those suffering with terminal illnesses in modern countries such as England where democratic institutions (courts/ legal systems) and democratic principles, ie fair hearings and fair principles are expected. Not withstanding, in Human Rights Law: no citizen shall be discriminated against; treated in a derogatory way; notwithstanding, the right for a dying elderly man to keep his possessions (Pension/ and its income). It is discrimination as persons with terminal disabilities/ diseases are adversely affected when compared to the younger healthy, employable cohorts of bankrupt persons.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Ruleoflaw

[Andyorch]

It is possible for poster to email me, CitizenB? at my email address?

 

Absolutely not.....please read the Forum Rules.

 

Andyorch

[Ruleoflaw]

Thank you again for your help.

I suppose I will have to contact a solicitor who specialises in bankruptcy law, can you or anyone recommend one for me?

 

 

 

Don't put the cart before the horse, before you spend money on a solicitor. Contact the Receiver and find out what is going on. Then when you have a better idea, maybe we can help you more. It is very difficult to research legal issues if we do not have sufficient legal information to narrow down to some feasible answers. Alternatively, look online. This is a forum, ie a platform where consumer issues/ law is discussed. So, look for Law Forum types online. Use these key words in an internet search to narrow down the results/ pages. Then when you better understand you could also come back and we will help you. Please try not to worry, I can only imagine just how stressful this is for you as a very sick elderly gentleman. I really hope you have good family/ friends around to help you during this time. Please take care.