PWE PCN - Brockholes **won**

[jason4656]

just checking if its ok really and if there is anything else i need to know

[honeybee13]

So you haven't sent it yet?

 

HB

[jason4656]

no i havent sent it

[DragonFly1967]

Perhaps the best thing to do, sooner rather than later, is to just email PWE appealing the ticket on general grounds and asking for an IAS code (or however it is that they refer to an IAS appeal). At least that will buy you some more time. I think you have to lodge an IAS appeal within 21 days of receiving the code.

 

So, given that it will (probably) take a day or so to respond to your email or letter, it'll buy you at least 23 or 24 days and will keep the ball rolling along nicely, and give you the chance to seek the full advice you need on here to submit a full appeal to the IAS. And into the bargain, presuming that it's the same as for POPLA, it's going to cost PWE a few quid to issue you with the IAS code

 

As for the reason for your (soft) appeal to PWE, refer to post #10 of this thread. They'll 99% of the time reject the appeal on those grounds, which will then force their hand as far as either dropping it or issuing the IAS code to you.

[jason4656]

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter. For further information please visit http://www.theias.org

 

not sure i really have a chance of doing that, as there looks like no code is needed and they have already directed in how to make that appeal...

[ericsbrother]

If you want to appeal to IAS your grounds are the land where you parked was not under the control of PWE as it was not part of the car park and that the notice to the keeper of the vehicle was not sent or received within the time prescribed by the PoFA (received 16 days after the event).

[armadillo71]

@jason4656.

 

 

Can you just recap on the timeline of events please.

 

Exactly what has been sent to you on what dates, and what your replies have been and when.

 

 

To appeal to the IAS, you have to enter you details on to the website within twenty one days of the rejection letter from the PPC.

 

 

Unless your timeline makes it clearer to me, then I think you are out of time for the IAS appeal.

 

 

But PWE were out of time sending the NTK to allow keeper liability under POFA 2012 schedule 4. Which means they can only chase the keeper for payment of the charge.

[jason4656]

@armadillo71

 

1st Letter that i received was sent to my registered address on wed 11 june, i received it couple of weeks later as i was away. Then I received a 2nd letter on around 30th June sent on the 26th June saying the parking charge remains unpaid. It threatened legal action if it was not paid within 14days. It also stated I could appeal and if it was unsuccessful i could appeal to the theIPC.info

 

I appealed via email stating that i did not see any signs on 28th July they refused on the 6th August stating that if i disagreed i could contact theIAS.org if i didnt like it.

 

I replied to their email asking for pics of the signs at the entrance on the 6th Aug and on the 10th they replied to me saying they have no obligation to provide this info.

 

Thats all thanks

[DragonFly1967]

1st Letter that i received was sent to my registered address on wed 11 june

 

Just so we're all clear then Jason, when was the alleged 'parking event'? Judging by your first post, it was 26th May, "two weeks and two days" is that correct? And was 11th June the date that was on the letter, or the day that it arrived?

[jason4656]

Hi, yes thats right, monday 26th may

[DragonFly1967]

Hi, yes thats right, monday 26th may

 

Nice... In that case, you have PWE over a barrel with their trousers around their ankles (there's an image for you).

 

PWE are members of the IPC. The IPC Code of Practice says at...

5.1 The Notice to the Keeper must; and

5.1(l) Be given by;

1) Handing it to the keeper, or

2) Leaving it at his current address, or

3) Sending it by post to his current address. and

5.1(m) Be given so that it will be received by the keeper within 14 days beginning the day after the specified period of parking.

 

If you parked on the 26th May. Ignoring the day that you parked as per the Code of Practice, The notice should have been sent so as to be received before 9th June. So to have that notice dated 11th June and sending it by Royal Mail 1st class, it cannot have been received at your address before 12th June, or 17 days after the parking event. Therefore, PWE are out of time and cannot hope (not even in their wildest dreams) to enforce against the keeper.

 

I would now write to the IPC stating that PWE were out of time in sending the NTK, and ask them to a) instruct PWE to cancel their unenforceable notice. b) instruct PWE to remove any details they hold on their system(s) about you or your vehicle. And c) asking what the IPC are going to do about this breach of their Code of Practice by one of their members.

 

You could also complain the the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) and the DVLA about the misuse of, and the wrongful release of your personal data to a company (PWE) that have clearly misrepresented their reason for requesting your data which is a breach of the IPC Code of Practice and the KADOE agreement.

 

Have at 'em

[jason4656]

That sounds good thanks, i will draw up an email this weekend

[armadillo71]

So PWE are out of time then to allow keeper liability under the POFA 2012 schedule 4.

 

As long as they are not calling you the driver in their correspondence, and you not confirming that , then that is your appeal to the IAS.

 

Twenty one days to appeal via the website. You only get one attempt at the appeal and can't add to it once entered.

[jason4656]

I would say ive potentially identified myself in email. I said "if there were signs I would have bought a ticket? " i guess once again thats saying i was there, but not saying i was driving??

[ericsbrother]

The burden of proof lies with the parking co should they wish to pursue the driver instead of the keeper if they rae timed out for PoFA. If they claim that the RK was driving then they should provide some proof of this

[jason4656]

does this discussion count as evidence? if someone screenshotted that? if i owned a parking company it would be my first port of call....

[armadillo71]

does this discussion count as evidence? if someone screenshotted that? if i owned a parking company it would be my first port of call....

 

Don't tell them you writing here then.

 

They are out of time for keeper liability.

[jason4656]

lol i wasnt planning on doing that! I just thought they would be already on it!

[jason4656]

did as suggested, here is the reply from the ipc

 

 

If you believe the charge was incorrectly issued, you had 21 days from the date of the Notice to Keeper (11th June 2014) to appeal against the charge. Where if it was rejected, you would have been provided the details of how to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS).

 

The time-frames specified describes the requirements for sending a letter in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, please refer to Part C 2. of the Code of Practice. However, nobody at the IPC is able to provide you legal advice, we recommend that your visit your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

We hope this helps to clarify.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The IPC

[ericsbrother]

they have sidestepped the point you have made and ignored the fact they havent abided by the law and hope that you wont notice this fact. It is they who are in need of legal advice if they think that the law allows them to take the matter further. Should you start to get further demands it would be pertinent to remind them again that they are timed out on the PoFA and ask what law they can cite taht allows them to continue their pursuit of you without being open to a complaint of harassment being laid against them.

[jason4656]

I have not replied to PWE though, had a legal threat of action this weekend came through also

[armadillo71]

Right well I'm lost now as to what you've been writing and to whom...

 

You say you have now had a threat of legal action from PWE.

 

In that case I would write one letter to PWE.

 

' You have not followed the correct procedure to enable keeper liability under schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012.

As registered keeper of vehicle reg no. xxx xxx I am not liable for this charge.

I was not the driver of this vehicle on DATE .

Please address all further correspondence to the driver.

No further correspondence will be entered in to and any further correspondence from PWE will be treated as harassment and dealt with accordingly.'

[jason4656]

I am not sure whats confusing, ive tried my best to follow what advice has been given, but there are different opinions which makes it difficult.

 

The final advise seemed to be

 

DragonFly1967

 

I would now write to the IPC stating that PWE were out of time in sending the NTK, and ask them to a) instruct PWE to cancel their unenforceable notice. b) instruct PWE to remove any details they hold on their system(s) about you or your vehicle. And c) asking what the IPC are going to do about this breach of their Code of Practice by one of their members.

 

 

Have at 'em

 

at which point i did as above

 

and then i got the reply from the ipc stating

 

If you believe the charge was incorrectly issued, you had 21 days from the date of the Notice to Keeper (11th June 2014) to appeal against the charge. Where if it was rejected, you would have been provided the details of how to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS).

 

The time-frames specified describes the requirements for sending a letter in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, please refer to Part C 2. of the Code of Practice. However, nobody at the IPC is able to provide you legal advice, we recommend that your visit your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

We hope this helps to clarify.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The IPC

 

so your now suggesting I write to pwe with

 

' You have not followed the correct procedure to enable keeper liability under schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012.

As registered keeper of vehicle reg no. xxx xxx I am not liable for this charge.

I was not the driver of this vehicle on DATE .

Please address all further correspondence to the driver.

No further correspondence will be entered in to and any further correspondence from PWE will be treated as harassment and dealt with accordingly.'

 

which i will do, and report back what response i get

 

thanks for your help

[ericsbrother]

You were supposed to write to the parking co, they are the ones demanding money. AS they havent followed procedures it is not an IPC matter and never really can be as they deal with appeals about the charges not breaches f the law.

[jason4656]

You were supposed to write to the parking co, they are the ones demanding money. AS they havent followed procedures it is not an IPC matter and never really can be as they deal with appeals about the charges not breaches f the law.

 

It has been difficult to follow, I'm gonna do that next, thanks