Bes Commercial Electricity telesales pressure selling issue, ** I WON**

[pretty-naive]

Hi, I'm a first time user on here, so please bear with me...

 

I am hoping someone might be able to help regarding a matter that a very good friend and client of mine has found herself in.

 

She had the usual telesales hostage taking call that I have read loads about on here where she was tricked and mis-sold into agreeing to a contract without actually realising what was happening.

 

She specifically asked "what if she changed her mind? and were there any cancellation fees?" and she was told "no problem cancelling if she changed her mind and no fees!!!" she also agreed to a 3 year contract as she only has a 3 year lease... later that day, she recieved an email with the t's & c's which now somehow have attracted a £400 cancellation fee and that she is in a 4 year contract!!! (1 year longer than she is in the property)???...???

 

What I am hoping to find out is... As I was with her when it happenned & as I took the call and suffered the first 5 minutes of the sales pitch before I told them they needed to speak to her, do I qualify as a credible wittness as far as an ombudsman case is concerned?

 

I heard the whole conversation including her asking about cancellation fees and agreeing to a 3 year contract. Also, on 2 occasions she said to the telesales rep that she was talking too fast and couldnt understand what she was saying, And that she had a very hoarse/raspy voice and she wasnt sounding very clear.

 

She is in the process of their complaints procedure (stage 2) which seems to me to be a stalling tactic on their part, and has now got a recording of the 'alleged agreement' which she asked for to be unedited.

However, when she listened to it, it sounds well dodgy, you cant understand a word of what the telesales rep is saying, also, at 1 point, you can clearly hear me in the background reading out the postcode of the business to her. and, at the end of the recording, there is a succession of repeats of my friend saying the word 'yes' (6 times, one after the other, must have been left over from their editing process). also, at no point in the recording do they ask if it is a micro business, as it clearly is, only turning over a few hundred pounds a month!!!

 

If that wasnt dodgy enough, when we finished listening to the recording, a new recording started playing from a completely different company that they were hounding, we sat there horrified to hear this poor bloke reading out all of his personal details, incuding bank sort code and account number, full name and address etc. Luckily, this guy is very safe with us as we are very honest people but we are now wondering who could possibly be sitting there with her details??? This surely must contravene the data protection act?

 

she tried to get eon to keep hold of the account before it went 'live' but they sneaked in and took it anyway, eon requested an eroneous transfer but it didnt work

 

Based on what I have said, can anyone advise please as all of this has made her quite ill and I cant just sit by and watch all of her hard work and hard earned cash go to these revolting gutter rats!

 

All the best

Jamie

[Jonsey1986]

Hi

 

Awful awful company!! What I know about it is there can be a change of tenancy done once the lease is up and this should free you guys from the contract for nothing. I work for an energy consultancy so can ask one of the experts for you. From my experience BES are very expensive and a nightmare to deal with.

 

Regards

[pretty-naive]

Hi Jonesey,

Thanks for your reply, and your help.

Tenancy change has been a consideration as I have offered to put it in my name and my home address then change it back when the dust has settled but would this mean changing the company name? as she has spent a fortune on sign writing on the shop and her van plus all of the printing, stationary, advertising etc.

Also, the lease has only just started from 1st feb and is 3 years long, not sure if she can reasign tenancy in the lease terms.

 

Jamie

[Jonsey1986]

Hi Jaime

 

Again, I am not 100% sure on this. You may be able to fill out a change of tennancy form into a different businesses name, then once that has been processed (upto 5 days I think) do a change if tennancy back into the original businesses name (that is assuming BES even know what a COT is!!)

 

I'll have to check when I'm at work tomorrow, but if there is an alternative business name that the energy could be put into just to get out if the contract with BES, switch it away from them, and set up a contract with another supplier, this could be a solution.

 

It seems like a hassle, but that's the only thing that springs to my mind, and I believe that this option is by far and away better than staying with those leeches for 3 years.

 

I will be sure to ask the resident know-it-all at work tomorrow and could advise further once I know the score from him. I can't promise anything as I know of numerous businesses/people who are unfortunate enough to be with BES. But I will do my best

 

Regards

[pretty-naive]

Thanks jonesey, thats really kind of you, much apreciated

[dx100uk]

i'll alert the e-on rep to pop in too

 

can you just outline their part in this a bit more

 

i'm sure they can deal wit this BES spoofign too and get it stopped if she wants.

 

dx

[stu007]

Hi

 

I would send a SAR to BES and also ask for a copy of the audio recording of you agreeing to stated contract.

[pretty-naive]

Hi,

 

Eon are/were the original supplier and

 

when she found out that she had been conned,

she called Eon and told them what happenned and under no circumstances to let bes take the supply,

 

the first objection stood firm but a few days later they sneaked in and took the supply anyway.

 

She called eon and they tried an ET but it seem to have failed.

 

Cant explain how angry this makes me,

 

Would love to see rogue traders chasing pilley down the road with a camera crew!!!

what a leech!

[pretty-naive]

We have got a recording of the call, all-be-it somewhat edited

[dx100uk]

Hi,

 

Eon are/were the original supplier and

 

when she found out that she had been conned,

she called Eon and told them what happenned and under no circumstances to let bes take the supply,

 

the first objection stood firm but a few days later they sneaked in and took the supply anyway.

 

She called eon and they tried an ET but it seem to have failed.

 

Cant explain how angry this makes me,

 

Would love to see rogue traders chasing pilley down the road with a camera crew!!!

what a leech!

 

thats great

i'm sure Malc and the crew will sort any aspect they can for you.

 

they'll prob reply tomorrow

 

dx

[E.ON Company Rep: Malc]

Hi Jamie

 

Although it's possible for either supplier to start the Erroneous Transfer process, it's always best to insist the gaining supplier kicks this off. This is because, invariably, the gaining supplier claims to have a valid contract and rejects the attempts of the losing supplier to re-take the account.

 

Sounds as though this is what happened to your friend. I'd go back to BES and tell them to send the account back under an Erroneous Transfer.

 

The Erroneous Transfers Customer Charter was set up in 2002 under the direction of Ofgem. You're friend always has recourse to Ofgem should she encounter problems.

 

Sorry I can't offer more help here Jamie but hope this points you in the right direction.

 

Malc

[dx100uk]

thats great malc

 

here is the rules for ref PN

[Surfer01]

This a terrible company to deal with and they should have criminal proceedings against them. I am surprised they are still allowed to operate considering the number of complaints against them. Follow the complaints procedure and escalate it. Eventually request a deadlock letter and escalate to energy Ombudsman. This will cost BES £500. If no luck, do a change of tenancy and change of supplier. They have to let the supply go to the new supplier. Be aware that they are following this this thread.

[Jonsey1986]

Hi Jamie

 

Turns out you CAN do a COT, what you'll need is another business name to put the COT into. Maybe an alternative business ran by your friend or maybe someone you know who has a business.

 

Firstly inform BES that there is a change of tennancy taking place at the property and provide them with the new company name etc (if possible, if they ask for person names etc, try and give them one different to your friends), this should put the account onto 'deemed' rates and a 28 day rolling contract.

 

Contact Eon or whoever you want to put the account with, and they should then apply for the meter, BES shouldn't (but probably will) object, but remember you will be on a rolling contract. The new supplier will ask you to enter a contract with them, thats fine because there will be another COT to do. Once the new supplier have control of the meter, contact them again and do a COT back into the original business name and set up a new contract and you should be free of them. Hope that makes sense and helps.

 

This is best case scenario, and BES will make things hard for you no doubt. Best of luck

 

Regards

[pretty-naive]

Thanks guys for all your help,

 

certainly lightens the load knowing that we are not alone on this one.

 

COT sounds like a good option if its a last resort, there are options available regarding changing the business, but we think justice is deserved here, cant quite work out how these people sleep at night?, I couldnt treat people like that! but I guess thats because i'm an honest, law abiding citizen.

 

she has made contact with the ombudsman today (awaiting reply), albeit before the 8 weeks deadlock time as criminal activity has occured here, also, as they objected the ET (which we qualify for according to the root causes in the ETCC), have also made contact with the UIA who are requesting copies of evidence. Am also writing a letter to number 10 (for what its worth) and am considering contacting the police as this is fraud!

 

Stage 2 complaints letter should be with them today, so we await their reply!!! And if they are following this thread, then maybe it will give them an insight of what they are doing to ordinary, hard working peoples lives!!! They should be ashamed of themselves and I hope they end up in prison!!!

[pretty-naive]

Well, my friend is now at the final stage of the BES complaints procedure and all she wants now is the deadlock letter as there is no point trying to talk to these people.

 

We have tried to listen to their recording of the alleged agreement and are finding it really hard to make out what the broker is saying but they think it is perfectly audible?!?!?

 

As a gesture of good faith, they have offered to reduce the contract from 4 years to 3 years!!! Would be a lot better if they reduced it to 0 years and said sorry for lying to her and tricking her into a dodgy deal!

 

She has just recieved her first invoice from them for the first months electricity... £250 for running 2 lightbulbs and making the occasional cup of tea for 30 days!!! That is nearly half of her months takings totally mind blowing and baffling, what planet are these nutters from?

 

The next stage is the Ombudsman now, I am in the process of helping her prepare her case now and we seem to have plenty of evidence gathered. I also think I will forward the whole file to BBC Watchdog, Im sure they will find it all very interesting

 

Any advice or help on proceding would be greatly apreciated...

[Surfer01]

Check the bill a sit is probably an estimated reading based on historical data. Hopefully she has a reading from when she first went into the premises?

[pretty-naive]

Hi Surfer,

Yes, she took a reading from when she moved in, and a photograph but she is refusing to co-operate with BES as she is adamant that she has not got a valid contract with them.

 

1. She has refused them a meter reading

2. She has cancelled the direct debit and closed the bank account.

3. She has and is continuing to refuse access to fit a smart meter (which she has never agreed to have installed)

4. She has told them that any future correspondence must be in writing and that she is no longer prepared to talk to them on the phone. This is purely due to the fact that any conversations with them on the phone are totally pointless as they do not listen to anything she has to say. Also, so that there is hard, written evidence of anything they say! (Strangely enough though, they have not written to her at all since)

 

The whole matter has been forwarded to both Watchdog and Trading standards now.

 

Quick question... do you know if 'Business protection from misleading marketing regulations 2008' apply here as she is seriously considering taking legal advice and taking them to court.

 

Cheers,

Jamie

[onjance1]

Hi there,

Just wondering how you got on?

We did all of the above-but they generally find ways so that you do things wrong & fall into a trap so they can take legal action against you.

That is where we are now, however we have counterclaimed for the loss of our business against their claim.

Although black & white these guys are acting in a corrupt way-small businesses dont seem to have any hooks to prove anything.

Is there anyone else out there who have been disconnected by BES which in turn closed their business down & have been left with dealing the re-procussions through the courts?

many thanks in advance

[pretty-naive]

Hi guys, sorry for the break in replies...

 

Well, it appears that we beat them!!!

 

EON now have control of our supply and we have entered into a very fair 1 year contract with them at a very acceptable rate, I would like to point out that their team were fantastic!!!

 

What we did...

1. We dug our heels in and flatly refused to do business with them as their 'contract' was null and void due to the misselling issue.
   
2. We closed the bank account that they had the details for.
   
3. We refused a meter reading or access to the meter.
   
4. We refused to communicate over the telephone and told them that everything had to be in writing otherwise we would ignore them (funnily enough, not 1 letter other than the complaints procedure letters!!!)
   
5. We kept a running tally of our costs, including £25 per hour for letter writing and sent this tally with each correspondence (it was at £460 at the end)
   
6. We thoroughly researched the law including 'unfair contracts act' and 'erroneous transfer act' and anything we could find and quoted this chapter and verse. look at marketing and advertising law on the gov uk website.
   
7. We had taken an initial approach to taking them to court at our own cost and made it very clear to them in no uncertain terms that we really meant it and would carry it out!!!
   
8. Informed Watchdog, local papers, Action Fraud, Trading Standards etc.
   

Gues what?... As a 'gesture of goodwill' they gave the supply back!!! (that they had no right to take in the first place)

 

My advice to anyone dealing with these people is GET TOUGH and dont let them bully you. Record absolutely everything, even the slightest details, its all very important.

 

Dont waste your time trying to reason with them on the phone, they are very well trained robots with only 1 script! You will get absolutely nowhere with them and just wind yourself up.

 

Stand your ground with them and make complaints wherever possible about them to the relevant people. Remember, this company is afraid of going to court, use this to your advantage!

 

Together, we can change this and stop other people falling foul of this loophole in the law.

 

I would like to say a huge thanks to all the fab people on here, whose advice has been vital.

 

Good luck to all of you.

 

Jamie

[dx100uk]

WELL DONE!!

 

dx

[stu007]

Hi pretty-naïve

 

That's great news that you have won and well done to you for staying the course.

 

Thank you for popping in and giving us an update as it will be useful to assist others reading your thread.

 

WELL DONE

[Surfer01]

Congratulations Jamie and well done! nice to see these morons beaten into last place.

[Justine60]

Hi am new to this but we too have a problem with BES. Hate to sound dumb but what is COT an acronym for as the advise given may help us too

[onjance1]

Hi,

Contact the UIA tomorrow- there is a contact card on their site & phone number - they will help you as much as they can as soon as you mention BES