Fare evasion Please HELP!!

[ssd01]

First of all I only want advise

 

I done something foolish I know shudnt have not in this day and age but basically I was running late last thursday and i modified my network rail pass - it was out of date on thursday and i cut and glued the date from another pass (I KNOW STUPID THING TO DO!!)

 

basically i had to get to birmingham international from birmingham new street and when I was coming back I got stopped at the barrier by a london midland Revenue protection officer

 

He asked for my details which I gave and some ID i gave him my driving licence and then he cautioned me i.e. anything you do say may later be used in court and evidence etc

 

I answered guilty to the intention to not pay as I was in a hurry in the morning and I would have paid otherwise

 

I havent been in trouble with the law in my life and he also checked my record if i had previous convictions which came back negative

 

after taking the details to the questions he asked me and saying that if you say your guilty and be honest your making things easier for yourself - and he also noted that i was reasonable and cooperative overall

 

after this interview he took my defaulted travel pass and said I would get a letter from the prosecutions services in 3-4 weeks

 

Now I am worried I dont want a criminal record at all I would rather pay the fine but when I asked him is the fine going to be like £1000 etc he said no not that much and said you will have to reply back to the letter that is sent out to you

 

I am worried and I do not want to get into any further trouble I know what I did was stupid and foolish but what can I do to get out of this problem, i did say i was guilty and didnt argue and was honest during the interview process

 

I have asked a few RPO's in around new street and they have said 90% it wont go to court etc as long as I comply with standards and reply back and show remorse

But I am worried as I know its intention to not pay, he did a MG11 report etc and I know it could end up in court after reading various forums on the internet I just dont want a criminal record I can pay the fine and get on with it but what do I do

 

Sorry for asking for advise I dont really know who else to ask I know I have made a mistake and a stupid one we all do and no one is immune to mistakes I am sorry if i have offended anyone and show fully remorse of this

 

I have never been on the wrong side of the law and have paid all my tickets in the past without any problems and always the full amount when required

 

 

I Dont want a criminal record I am more than happy to pay the fine + administration fees and just want to clear my name I have made a mistake and I am deeply remorseful and understand now the consequences.

[ssd01]

Please can someone advise as desperately need some advise!!

[honeybee13]

Please can someone advise as desperately need some advise!!

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

You posted this less than 15 minutes after your first post. Unfortunately, this is a forum rather than a chat room, so you need to wait for someone with the right knowledge to come along I'm afraid. I expect they will be here this evening or tomorrow but I can't really tell you when, sorry.

 

The guys here will understand what your problem is, which I'm not expert at, and will advise you what to do.

 

Please bear with us.

 

My best, HB

[sailor sam]

You were running late but you had time to 'modify' your rail card? Sorry, but that's how they will see it. It will hardly be seen as mistake either as it shows actual intent to deceive.

 

The only advice is to write a very much grovelling letter explaining that you are truly sorry and it will never happen again.

[ssd01]

What chance have I got of being let off I will write a grovelling letter I want to get in touch with london midland b4 I receive the letter I can barely sleep or concentrate on anything and I dont want to end up in Court i asked the RPI if i would be fined £1000 etc he was like "noooo" and that I would receive a letter which i would have to reply back too I know its something stupid I done believe me I am kicking myself for it

[MrGates]

So just to clarify you are network rail staff and was cause using staff privilages? The abuse of staff travels is something that is hammered on hard, as has been pointed out you must sit tight and wait.

 

As for payment of fines etc its hard to give a figure until the TOC has informed you of what offence they are holding you for. The most serious charge would be a breach of the regulations of railway act as in this case you intentionally attempted to avoid payment or show a valid pass. You must also remember that future passes might be withdrawn.

[ssd01]

I am not a network rail staff worker simply a passenger what charge would I be charged under I have admitted to them accepted my mistake, said I am guilty and I know i WILL NOT DO THIS AGAIN TRUST ME!! i just dont want a criminal record and my only real assurance is from RPO's who i have asked and explained to them what I did and they have said for a first offence it is most likely 90% not going to court?

[honeybee13]

What chance have I got of being let off I will write a grovelling letter I want to get in touch with london midland b4 I receive the letter I can barely sleep or concentrate on anything and I dont want to end up in Court i asked the RPI if i would be fined £1000 etc he was like "noooo" and that I would receive a letter which i would have to reply back too I know its something stupid I done believe me I am kicking myself for it

 

Hello again.

 

I know you're upset, but the world isn't going to end over this.

 

Nobody here can tell you what will happen, we'd all be guessing. What you need to do is wait for the letter from London Midland. If you contact them before that, they won't have a reference for your case and probably won't be able to find the paperwork.

 

You could have a read around the forum to get an idea of how cases end here. Lots of people have been in the same position as you. If it's a first offence, my understanding is that the fine wouldn't be £1000, quite a lot less. Have a read of a few threads.

 

HB

[MrGates]

So what pass are you relating to?

[ssd01]

So what pass are you relating to?

 

The pass is a network rail pass i.e. a travel pass within the birmingham region i know i made a mistake admitted it signed the notes and said yes i am guilty when i have asked other rpo's they have said your most likely to get a payment going to court is 90% unlikely but worried what could be the outcome??

[firstclassx]

I'm sorry to say, but I'm fairly certain that you will be attending court for this. London Midland (& Govia TOCs) happen to use slightly different legislation than normal for dealing with this range of offences, I actually went on a CPS course not long ago covering this aspect, TOCs are being encouraged to use a wider range of legislation.

 

The legislation used in this instance will almost certainly be S1 and S3 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.

 

I think you should seek professional assistance with this, as an unlimited fine, custodial sentence*, or both are possible outcomes.

 

*max 6 months if at a Magistrate's Court

*max 10 years if convicted at Crown Court, although I suspect unless the counterfeiting is worth more than £1000, it will be a Mag's appearance.

 

The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 could be used, but as I stated above, the Govia group are now advised to use S1/3 FCA 1981.

Edited June 24, 2012 by firstclassx

[ssd01]

I'm sorry to say, but I'm fairly certain that you will be attending court for this. London Midland (& Govia TOCs) happen to use slightly different legislation than normal for dealing with this range of offences, I actually went on a CPS course not long ago covering this aspect, TOCs are being encouraged to use a wider range of legislation.

 

The legislation used in this instance will almost certainly be S1 and S3 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.

 

I think you should seek professional assistance with this, as an unlimited fine, custodial sentence*, or both are possible outcomes.

 

*max 6 months if at a Magistrate's Court

*max 10 years if convicted at Crown Court, although I suspect unless the counterfeiting is worth more than £1000, it will be a Mag's appearance.

 

The Regulation of Railways Act 1889 could be used, but as I stated above, the Govia group are now advised to use S1/3 FCA 1981.

 

Are you trying to say for a first ever offence I could end up in jail for 6 months or 10 years??

 

Please can i not do a settlement out of court as I have asked various RPO's from LM who have said they are 90% sure this will not end up in court for a first offence??

[ssd01]

Value of the monthly pass was £68.00 and now i could face going to prison? and a £1000? for a first offence??

[RPI]

Lets clear this up a minute, i take it you are refering to a Network West Midlands travel card rather than a Network Rail (aka the company that owns the track and stations across Britain)? This is basically a zonal type travelcard for the West Midlands. Wait for them to write to you and then offer to pay costs plus the avoided fare(s), I'm not being funny but don't try to convince them that you didn't have a spare few minutes to buy a new ticket but did have time to alter the current one.

[BazzaS]

Value of the monthly pass was £68.00 and now i could face going to prison? and a £1000? for a first offence??

 

From my reading of the thread, it depends on what (if anything) you are summonsed for.

One poster has highlighted that an option available to the TOC is to persue an allegation of forgery, rather than "intent to avoid a fare".

 

If you are planning to write to them to ask them for an administrative settlement, how are you planning to explain having a pass with an altered date on it?

[ssd01]

All I dont want is a prison sentence for 10 Years for one stupid error or 6 months I want to keep my name cleared and would rather settle out of court please I altered the date after finding out i didnt have my wallet only a previous pass with me from the previous month in reply to BazzaS I know what i don was silly not even silly but damn right stupid and yes it was a one of error believe me I know the feeling now of worrying I just dont want to lose my career or end up in prison!

[ssd01]

Look in total the cost from Bham new st to Bham International was 2.40 a total of 4.80 avoided by meNow i dont have difficulty paying this I have done for the last 2 years of my working career after leaving universityI left my wallet at work the night b4 not realising this and the next day got a lift to bham from my home without realising that i didnt have my wallet as i didnt use it at all the previous evening ( i hav a bad habit of leaving cards, passes etc in my work trousers) nxt morning i was walking into town after having got a lift and went to check my bank account and all i had was my network rail pass and no wallet (F***) i thought and then realised i was overdue on my rail pass as well it had run out the previous day and me not remembering to get a new one! I dont know what overcame me but i had a previous months rail card and cut that and put it on the recently expired one to get to work i had no money on me and only a rail passi know what i have done is stupid but i have only recently started a new job i didnt want to be late nor did i want to walk home 6 miles as i didnt have no access to transport and my phone was low on credit i had 24pNow i have been truthful and honest and i have admitted my error and i am deeply sorry i pay my taxes work hard 65 hours a week and hav always followd the law i dont want to end up in prison or pay a £1000 fine for a £68 pound rail passI am just really worried - like stupidly worried!

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I hope more of the guys will be able to get here today, but I think I can add a bit.

 

£1000 is the maximum fine for fare evasion; if you read around some threads here, I've seen £400 quoted recently for someone on average earnings, plus victim surcharge etc.

 

I'm not an expert, but if you haven't done anything like this before, I wouldn't think prison is an option.

 

My best, HB

[ssd01]

Thank you honeybee i dont want to end up in prison i know the error i made and my foolish judgement having spoken to various RPO's at new street from london midland they have quoted a payment of £150 etc and the court would be the last case it just worried me when one individual on here suggested 6 month to 10 year imprisonment and unlimited fine i just want to settle out of court asap!!

[honeybee13]

Am I right in thinking you're still waiting to hear from the rail company? Until you get a letter from them, you won't know what they're wanting to do.

[ssd01]

I am still awaiting a letter just wondering from experience what is the outcome in respect from your experience reading my threads etc what do you think is the typical outcome i did have a check on me at the barriers and no previous convictions came up i havent ever been in trouble for this either first time!

[honeybee13]

I'm sorry, I don't understand enough about the system to hazard a guess, and I don't want to make it up for you. It's hard for anyone to know until the letter arrives.

 

Have you had a look around the forum for other cases like your own? We don't see this as often as other types of fare evasion, but there are some, and of course not everyone comes back to tell us what happened.

 

HB

[ssd01]

Wel i did have a look at a few the worse one was the £12000 IT individual who had to pay it all back but didnt get a prison sentence im just worried if there is a chance of a criminal record and a prison sentence i mean for a first offence the pass for a month is worth £68 and yes i did admit it and i would have paid if i had my wallet with me and what not i was in a hurry yes it was a mistake and i knw it was a moment of madness (we have all made errors in life) but im just sick of worrying and the letter is the longest wait ever! 12 days and counting all i want is a out of court settlement whether its £100 or £500 and i knw the seriousness now of what i have done but the fair itself was £4.80 a return is that worth a criminal record, prison etc? i mean if i lose my job etc over this isnt it going to cost the taxpayer more in various costs?

[BazzaS]

Wel i did have a look at a few the worse one was the £12000 IT individual who had to pay it all back but didnt get a prison sentence im just worried if there is a chance of a criminal record and a prison sentence i mean for a first offence the pass for a month is worth £68 and yes i did admit it and i would have paid if i had my wallet with me and what not i was in a hurry yes it was a mistake and i knw it was a moment of madness (we have all made errors in life) but im just sick of worrying and the letter is the longest wait ever! 12 days and counting all i want is a out of court settlement whether its £100 or £500 and i knw the seriousness now of what i have done but the fair itself was £4.80 a return is that worth a criminal record, prison etc? i mean if i lose my job etc over this isnt it going to cost the taxpayer more in various costs?

 

You may need to await their letter or the summons : you are focusing on a £4.80 fare, but they might focus on the forgery of a pass .......

 

As for "is it worth a criminal record" "cost the taxpayer more" and such taking this to its logical conclusion : say you have home insurance ; would it be O.K. for me to nick your belongings? And then I'd say "don't prosecute me, it's a victimless crime" "he's got insurance so it's not cost him anything except a higher premium" (or higher fares next year.....), so let me off with an admin charge ......

 

I suggest that the prosecutions office should weigh up the scenario, and then decide if prosecution is in the public interest.

[ssd01]

You may need to await their letter or the summons : you are focusing on a £4.80 fare, but they might focus on the forgery of a pass .......

 

As for "is it worth a criminal record" "cost the taxpayer more" and such taking this to its logical conclusion : say you have home insurance ; would it be O.K. for me to nick your belongings? And then I'd say "don't prosecute me, it's a victimless crime" "he's got insurance so it's not cost him anything except a higher premium" (or higher fares next year.....), so let me off with an admin charge ......

 

I suggest that the prosecutions office should weigh up the scenario, and then decide if prosecution is in the public interest.

 

i do understand what i have done and for a first offence im just really worried i dont want to go to PRISON for this offence or lose my job

I didnt have no means to go anywhere after forgetting my wallet have i got a previous record No have i done any offence no have i paid all my fares etc in the past yes and for running past my pass by one day and changing it yes i admit but is there no chanceof an out of call settlement at all?

 

Does any body have any experience of this i just want advise on how i can keep this going to court going to prison and having a criminal record