Ingeus

[Mr.P]

Why be polite?

 

Agreed. These clowns are rarely polite or civil towards their victims. Something along the lines of:

 

Due to personal circumstances, which are of no concern to you, my claim for JSA was closed on . Any attempt by yourselves or any agent acting on your behalf will be treated as harassment and reported to the relevant authorities.

 

If there is anything you do not understand in the above, I suggest you contact your legal department and/or a dictionary.

[Nystagmite]

You would have received a letter from DWP stating your JSA claim has closed. Send that as proof.

[jasta11]

They'll still try and contact you though - saying the information is 'for their records now you've left' or some similar excuse. All they want is the details of your new employer so they can claim their money.

 

As Mr P says, send the 'get stuffed' letter then ignore the vultures totally. When I left Ingeus I told them clearly I never wanted to hear from them again and to my surprise..I didn't! I was still unemployed when I left them though so that's probably why, there was no new job to chase me about.

[Mr.P]

You would have received a letter from DWP stating your JSA claim has closed.

 

The provider should have been notified by the DWP of the change in circumstances as per Chapter 5 of their guidance notes. If the DWP have failed to use the WP07 form or the provider chooses to ignore it, why should ButterScotch waste time & money in providing copies of correspondence.

[essexmat]

Yay! Another 5-6 months of these clowns for me (if I dont get a job)

 

At least they can help me get a job by ...

 

• Sorting my CV (I have a professional one and need no help)
  
• Sort a covering letter for jobs (I have a tailor made one I tailor properly for each job)
  
• Helping with interview skills (I have inerviewd people AND been interviewed many times and feedback has always been excellent)
  
• Help with English and Maths - (I passed my GCSEs in both with A grades and have a degree level qualification)
  
• Letting me use their out of date malfunctioning IT equipment (I have a new laptop, printer and fast broadband at home and am self sufficient whenlooking for work)
  
• Help me sign up to UJM and various job sites (all done, I use them daily)
  
• Getting me in more regularly than once a fortnight to make it look like they are engaging when in fact they can offer me NOTHING so rather than let me just get on with it they take valuable time from me by being pests that just won't go away
  

The joys!

[think about it]

Matt, I'd be tempted to put that to them. Constructively, of course, you don't want to get someone's back up to the point that they mandate you in every other day just to prove a point - we know that it's not beyond some advisers/coaches to do that.

 

But, whenever I had a client who could do all of the above then I'd quite happily set monthly/six weekly catch-ups. There's little point teaching someone to suck eggs but if you land a bit of a posterior of an adviser/coach they're likely to throw it back at you and ask why you're there if all of the above is true. Go about it gracefully and you'll find yourself nicely parked in the 'I don't need to do anything for this guy, he's got it sorted' pile, get it wrong and you'll be in the 'I can get this guy in work tomorrow and meet my target for this month so I'll get him in every other day' pile.

 

Good luck!

[Raven1]

Former ingeus employee regards long term sick as 'deadbeats'

 

 

“I worked near the national stadium ”

 

Former Employee - Employment Advisor in London, England

Doesn't Recommend

Negative Outlook

I worked at Ingeus full-time (More than 5 years)

Pros

The tube station was across the road from the building

Cons

You will meet the worst humanity has to offer. Aggressive, uneducated, ignorant, lazy, arrogant, sneaky and poor social skills - that's enough about the PDMs, let's talk about the clients. Your small caseload will be long term sick and long term never done a days work in their lives. Your job is to get 8 people per month into work lasting more than 6 months. You will have to see 12 of these deadbeats per day, whilst undertaking endless pointless admin work against a backdrop of your manager shouting at you and threatening to sack you. Even if you can resist the urge of giving your pdm a back handed slap, this job will drain any goodness you may have and you will end up hating unemployed people. You will probably give some serious consideration to taking your own life. I could not put into words or convey how horrible this job has become. The PDM in my office was hated by the whole company yet she was held up by senior management as the troubleshooter. Maybe this had more to do with her low cut tops ( it certainly wasnt because of her ability as she didn't have any as a manager) Her presence would make you want to vomit. Management have a contemptuous attitude towards staff. They will remind you daily of how grateful you should be for getting paid a decent salary. ( btw, What they pay you is not enough to put up with all the things in this job)

Show Less

Advice to Management

In case you are to thick to realise, all employees are looking for another job. All of them. I salute you, you have managed to destroy what was once a great place to work. I hope you're proud.'

 

Most of the people writing these reviews sound like sociopaths themselves read more at the link below

 

If I was still with them I'd be tempted to print a couple out and ask them for their comments...

 

 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Ingeus-Reviews-E303238.htm?utm_source=watcher&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=watch-n&utm_content=wat-n-

[Belfaster]

Interesting post Raven1, most of the comments on that site remind me of the employees at Seetec, in my short and pointless time with them. The Work Programme is complete and utter madness as Spike Milligan would say, although he was commenting on fishing as a hobby.

[Mickant]

This is the worst job seeking experience I've ever had by inexperienced young kids who have no chance of employment with a decent company

 

first interview I had or interrogation nearly ended in a fight then sat exams for what would suffice in Oxford or Cambridge

 

the second appointment I was put on a three day moon crash landing dilemma ran by a women who was sacked from tesco eight hours a day for 3 days then spot the photo for final day truly memorable and totally useless as I've no space centre in my town then I was told I needed a interview course with an experienced teenager who didn't show up then rescheduled for two weeks later he did turn up but didn't know what to say then thought I needed work experience

 

I told him I've worked 43 years non stop final straw was my own job search they plagued me for details like cheap [edited] for their payments then decided to stop my job seekers allowance

 

in short they are a nasty [edited] useless squander of tax payer money criminals have higher morals

 

as for their cv expert he had highlighted I'm experienced in care of the elderly and I'm barely alive plus he said I'm good at gardening none of which I know of

 

their jobs all consisted of working as a cleaner or mrsa spreader in hospitals I hope they suffer the same fate once they are unemployed which couldn't be quick enough

Edited September 22, 2015 by honeybee13
Paras plus potential libel.

[think about it]

Former ingeus employee regards long term sick as 'deadbeats'

 

 

“I worked near the national stadium ”

 

Former Employee - Employment Advisor in London, England

Doesn't Recommend

Negative Outlook

I worked at Ingeus full-time (More than 5 years)

Pros

The tube station was across the road from the building

Cons

You will meet the worst humanity has to offer. Aggressive, uneducated, ignorant, lazy, arrogant, sneaky and poor social skills - that's enough about the PDMs, let's talk about the clients. Your small caseload will be long term sick and long term never done a days work in their lives. Your job is to get 8 people per month into work lasting more than 6 months. You will have to see 12 of these deadbeats per day, whilst undertaking endless pointless admin work against a backdrop of your manager shouting at you and threatening to sack you. Even if you can resist the urge of giving your pdm a back handed slap, this job will drain any goodness you may have and you will end up hating unemployed people. You will probably give some serious consideration to taking your own life. I could not put into words or convey how horrible this job has become. The PDM in my office was hated by the whole company yet she was held up by senior management as the troubleshooter. Maybe this had more to do with her low cut tops ( it certainly wasnt because of her ability as she didn't have any as a manager) Her presence would make you want to vomit. Management have a contemptuous attitude towards staff. They will remind you daily of how grateful you should be for getting paid a decent salary. ( btw, What they pay you is not enough to put up with all the things in this job)

Show Less

Advice to Management

In case you are to thick to realise, all employees are looking for another job. All of them. I salute you, you have managed to destroy what was once a great place to work. I hope you're proud.'

 

Most of the people writing these reviews sound like sociopaths themselves read more at the link below

 

If I was still with them I'd be tempted to print a couple out and ask them for their comments...

 

 

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Ingeus-Reviews-E303238.htm?utm_source=watcher&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=watch-n&utm_content=wat-n-

 

An interesting read, I'll give him/her that. Some of it I agree with, some I don't.

 

At the very foot of it all someone only applies to become an adviser/coach/whatever-they're-called-today because they want to help. What the training and organisational procedures then do to that person is the tough bit about doing the job. You can see from the link that the person who wrote that isn't alone in their concerns or opinions.

 

I read quite often here about how people's appointments are well, unpleasant. All very well for 30 mins every couple of weeks, but for 9 hours a day, 5 hours a week that was my and this person's job. However, that said, it's no excuse to broad-brush people who are out of work as 'deadbeats'. No, instead your clients are just as tired of the DWP's meddling as you are, you're simply acting as the facilitator.

 

However, as an adviser you do get to meet EVERY part of society, from convicted murderers and child rapists under the MAPPA (Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements), to someone just unable to find a suitable role due to any number of reasons. It's a fact of life that some of those will have very poor social skills, others will be the next Princess Diana, some will have poor literacy and numeracy, others will be troubling Stephen Hawking, others will be a massive pain in the bum while the next client will be friendly and engaging. Some people will be anxious and of low mood, others will be bouncing across the floor. The challenging bit of the role is that we were trained and told to address and discuss any apparent difficulties openly. This makes people uncomfortable on both sides of the table. Having a client come in who's just that moment crawled out of the nearest pub or taken Class A drugs is as challenging as having someone who's finding the whole meeting others in public aspect completely overwhelming, but how you deal with that is what marks you as capable. Doing that twelve times a day, 60 times a week, 2880 times a year can and does change some people's outlook on others.

 

I struggled most with those who were with us under MAPPA, I struggled to look a convicted child rapist/murderer in the eye for 30 mins and have ANY empathy whatsoever. But, it was my job so I did it. It was my shortcoming, not his.

 

The role is VERY target driven, the constant threat of your job being held over you is a constant concern. In my opinion that type of work doesn't suit being target driven, a different story to an employment agency where people can be openly selected and declined to build the strongest caseload - that's 'targetable', having an assigned caseload of people who for any of the reasons above and countless others might not be ready, willing or able to take up work and being told to get 8 of them into a job every month leads to people taking inappropriate and extreme actions to try to attain that. Working in sales is different, yet as it's a private venture sustainability and profit tend to be number one. I don't feel that's an appropriate model when vulnerable people are involved.

 

This is the reason for the high turnover of staff, people go into it woth good intentions and find that by the end of it they're unable to do what they set out to do. No one goes to work to be threatened (happened a couple of times a day), intimidated, sworn at and abused for any reason. W2W has the potential to really live up to what it's intended to do but the threats need to be removed. Management ought not to threaten staff, staff ought not to threaten sanctions, clients ought not to feel threatened nor threaten others. Then, it 'might' work.

 

The DWP would freely check our attendance records, if a missed mandatory attendance wasn't accompanied with a doubt raised we were in breach of our contract - simple. Not just as employees but as an organisation. Most of us simply made non-mandatory appointments for people we felt most at risk, for those willing to engage and not wave their fists as they walked past the window, for those who didn't come in with chain wrapped around their fists or sat attempting to demean or bully advisers and other clients. We sought to create and maintain a positive environment for ourselves and everyone else, after all we were there 40+ hours a week.

 

Are they right, did I leave feeling dismayed and disenfranchised. Yes. I realised that I couldn't do what I wanted to do within the framework of W2W, so I went back to the third sector where I could. It's the reason you find that you're swapped from one adviser to another as a fresh batch leave training hoping to be able to help only to find that they struggle to do so. That person on the other side of the desk only wants, for whatever reason be it personal or target driven, the same thing as you. Which is to get you where you want to be. Enter into it in that spirit and you'll find it's far less stressful.

[Raven1]

Stockholm Syndrome

[think about it]

Stockholm Syndrome

 

Probably a bit more like the Milgram Experiment.

[fletch70]

Probably to be honest more like the Stanford Prison Experiment

 

For those that do not know

Milgram showed how people would do things that they knew were wrong if ordered to by a person in authority -In that case it was administer lethal electric shocks when told they must continue by a white coated researcher

 

Stanford prison Experiment showed how when given absolute power people would take on an authoritarian role and behave in ways that they would not do in normal life.

 

They are both very disconcerting and Milgram proved that even good ol' Americans could react like Nazi Concentration camp guards in the right circumstances

[Kxo]

I have been claiming JSA for about 6 months (after being on ESA for 3, possibly more) and have been referred to Ingeus. In this short time, I have had half a dozen different advisers, one of whom no longer worked there and I was still being sent weekly appointments to come in for an appointment with her. Almost every time I showed up to an appointment, I would wait at least 30 minutes to be seen and, once, was left sitting there for an hour, only to be told that my adviser had gone home for the day and I'd have to come back at another date.

 

Since then, they've uprooted and moved to a different location and I've had 2 advisers. The one I have now is constantly on my back about job searching and attending workshops for interview skills, cold calling, application help etc. I job search at home, cold calling is a waste of time and annoys employers and if I needed help with an application, I'd ask for it.

 

Recently I've had to rearrange 2 of my appointments due to family matters and ended up going over to Ingeus to speak to my adviser face-to-face as she wouldn't stop phoning me saying that she was "concerned" because I'd missed an appointment. I told her my situation (my mum is my disabled uncle's primary carer and she injured her back and I was the only family member available to help him) and the adviser seemed annoyed and was like "isn't there anyone else in your family that can help?" I said no. "no brothers or sisters?" No, my Sister works. "not even an aunt or uncle that lives locally?" Nope.

 

I said I wouldn't be able to attend the workshop she signed me up for (10am-4pm) because my uncle had to be turned in his bed every two hours because he had quite severe bedsores and spent 3 months in hospital due to them. She seemed annoyed again. Kept asking questions about how my mum was injured, when it happened and so on. It felt like she thought I was lying and she was trying to catch me out. As it turns out, my mum's back is quite bad and I'll need to be on hand to help my uncle for the next 4 weeks or so. She rolled her eyes and booked me in for another 10-4 workshop for 2 weeks time and told me that in those 2 weeks I have to apply for 14 jobs and hand out 14 CVs.

 

I'm lucky if I find 4 suitable jobs I can apply for in a week. She is setting me unrealistic goals as if she wants me to fail. She said, "how do you expect to apply for jobs when you're obligated to help your family" and I told her I'd applied for a few Christmas temp positions that were from 3pm onwards and also weekend jobs (which means my Sister would be home and able to help in my absence) and she still seemed unsatisfied.

 

I have an appointment and a workshop on the 17th and I'm going to need to phone and say I can't go to the workshop because my mum is still incapacitated and I can't be gone for more than two hours. I feel like her next step is to threaten me with a sanction or something and I don't know what I can do.

[Mr.P]

I have an appointment and a workshop on the 17th and I'm going to need to phone and say I can't go to the workshop because my mum is still incapacitated and I can't be gone for more than two hours. I feel like her next step is to threaten me with a sanction or something and I don't know what I can do.

 

Contact adult social services and get yourself registered as the designated carer for your mum and uncle. Then next time this "adviser" gives you any grief, tell her to read up on the Disability Act and then go on to demand a copy of their complaints procedures.

 

The Disability Act provides a degree of protection to both the subject (your mum and uncle) and the carer. Make sure the DWP/JCP is also aware of your additional responsibilities and they may offer you the opportunity to negotiate a new Job Seeker's Agreement. It may even be possible to claim Carer's Allowance if your relatives are in receipt of a qualifying benefit.

[Nystagmite]

However, if mum is currently claiming carers allowance, you can't claim.

[Kxo]

Contact adult social services and get yourself registered as the designated carer for your mum and uncle. Then next time this "adviser" gives you any grief, tell her to read up on the Disability Act and then go on to demand a copy of their complaints procedures.

 

The Disability Act provides a degree of protection to both the subject (your mum and uncle) and the carer. Make sure the DWP/JCP is also aware of your additional responsibilities and they may offer you the opportunity to negotiate a new Job Seeker's Agreement. It may even be possible to claim Carer's Allowance if your relatives are in receipt of a qualifying benefit.

 

It's only a short term thing, though. My mum will be fine in a few weeks when the bruising goes down. She is able to continue to be his carer (personal care etc) I'm only needed to physically maneuver him for the next few weeks. I tried to explain to my adviser that this would be the situation until the end of this year/early next year. The doctor did tell my mum not to do anything strenuous for the next 6 weeks - it's been almost two since she fell, so... I'm not sure what I can do from here.

 

At one point, during my interrogation, I said "if it's that much of a problem, I'll sign off for now" just to see what she'd say. I obviously need to continue JSA to live, but I was intrigued by her "willing" to give me two weeks before signing me up to another workshop. I'll wait until I sign on on Tuesday and speak to the woman in the job centre before contacting Ingeus about this again - I feel like they're more likely to help as opposed to Ingeus tricking me into thinking I have to do.tell them something when I don't.

[SabreSheep]

In fact anyone discriminated but for any association with a disabled person is covered by the act. As you are a relative I would argue you were covered

 

Read up on the single equality act re disability

 

then begin the formal complaints procedure

[Kxo]

Just back from my latest Ingeus appointment. She has requested my Universal Job Match login/password information - I don't think this is allowed, is it?

Also, told me to hand in 20 CV's, but not to any regular employee, only the manager and I have to take down the manager's name and write it all down and bring it to her.

When I was at the computer re-typing a section of my CV, the Ingeus employees gathered at a nearby table and started chatting very casually and it suddenly escalated to female employees describing "feeling each other's boobs at the Christmas party" and a male employee joining in and adding crude comments to the already weird conversation. I was so uncomfortable during this that I had to abandon my CV and leave. Isn't there rules against this type of thing? Shouldn't they be reported?

[fletch70]

Yes they should so complain to the manager

[Kxo]

Thanks.

 

Do you know whether Ingeus are entitled to my UJM login info? Even the jobcentre aren't allowed my password (since I had to check a box allowing them access to my job search history when I first made the account) so I'm confused as to why my Ingeus adviser would ask for it.

[reallymadwoman]

You should not be asked for log in details by anyone and certainly should not provide them. If they persist, demand that they explain exactly why they need your password/login details, in writing.

[fletch70]

RMW is spot on. I refused to let them have access to my account. It is a battle of attrition with these buggers. Nothing to do with undeserving or deserving but 100% to do with your rights to privacy. They try to make it difficult to refuse but so long as you play by the rules you should have nothing to worry about

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Thanks.

 

Do you know whether Ingeus are entitled to my UJM login info? Even the jobcentre aren't allowed my password (since I had to check a box allowing them access to my job search history when I first made the account) so I'm confused as to why my Ingeus adviser would ask for it.

 

 

There are probably more posts and threads to do with UJM, access to it, and consequences stemming from it, than any other topic on this Forum except perhaps on Ingeus itself.

 

Ingeus are not entitled to access to, sight of, or anything else to do with your UJM Account. Not even DWP are entitled to that and you are perfectly within your rights to 'uncheck' the tick box allowing them access at any time you like. You are also perfectly within your rights not to use it at all yourself if you choose not to.

The Work Programme Provider Guidance, from section 119 to 124 at:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/476220/wp-pg-chapter-3a.pdf

 

sets out what providers can and can't do in relation to UJM usage on their premises. It does not cover the points about whether the claimant must to use UJM or not, that is adequately covered by the DWP's own Guidance on UJM.

A recent response to a Freedom of Information Request to DWP on the subject of allowing access to a claimant's UJM Account at this link:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/269113/response/666047/attach/3/FOI%202080.pdf

Here is a selection of quotes that would confirm to even the stupidest of advisers that you are correct in your assumptions and that they are wrong:

"In terms of Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA) claimants to whom the Jobseekers Act 1995 and Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations 1996 apply, the recorded information we hold that best answers your first two questions about whether claimants can be made to give DWP staff access to their Universal Jobmatch (UJ) account and whether a sanction can be applied if they do not give permission is contained in paragraph 40 in Chapter 03 of the UJ Toolkit which says:

“You also cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours.”"

 

"Turning to your third question, in terms of JSA claimants to whom the Jobseekers Act 1995 and Jobseeker’s Allowance Regulations 1996 apply, as there is no legal requirement for claimants to give DWP staff access to their UJ account, no legislation exists."

 

"There is also no legal requirement for a Universal Credit claimant to give permission for DWP to access their UJ account."

Those quotes between them covers both JSA and UC claimants.

 

If that is not enough for them there are UK laws and regulations not to mention the European Convention on Human Rights which states in Article 8:

 

Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

 

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

What delusions does she suffer from, or what evil spell is she under, that she presumes to know the law and be allowed to act with impunity to dictate and impose her own interpretations and versions of it?

If they persist in their behaviour I would suggest that you too should consider the advice re harassment that I gave to Chester in his thread if your adviser's illegal treatment of you continues.

 

Remember, those people are bullies, acting outside the law and therefore haven't got a leg to stand on if challenged. When they are forced into a humiliating climbdown, as they will be if you stand up for your rights, their so-called colleagues will be the first to distance themselves from them.

 

As for their conduct amongst themselves within claimants' hearing when they are there to serve claimants it is, to say the least of it, unprofessional, and as such in breach of their terms and conditions as sub-contractors of DWP services.

[Mr.P]

Just back from my latest Ingeus appointment. She has requested my Universal Job Match login/password information - I don't think this is allowed, is it?

 

It most certainly should not be information asked for, and the "adviser" should no better. Providing login and passwords for a UJM account to another person is in breach of the terms and conditions of using the UJM site. A formal complaint should be addressed to the office manager and copied to the DWP.

 

If this "adviser" persists in asking for login/passwords, tell her that you will trade for hers, or failing that, her credit card & pin numbers.