Ingeus

[Nystagmite]

I was always told (here, email, Facebook, etc) to never give out my login details. There's no reason why anyone other than you needs them. I'm sure when you signed up, there's a load of t&Cs. One of them was "don't give out your username or password to anyone."

[Kxo]

Thanks everyone for your help. I won't be giving her my login info, even though she has already emailed me twice about it. She had asked for me to apply for 14 jobs in 14 days and bring in a list of them and I had forgotten to write them down, but knew off the top of my head the 6 or so I'd applied for. I recited them to her and she didn't seem pleased which is why she demanded my login info; to see my jobsearch history.

 

I've always found them very invasive, too. One of my (many) last advisers once asked me why I was on ESA for 6 months and I told her for mental health reasons. This wasn't good enough for her, though, and she made it seem like I had to tell her my life story. Eventually I told her it was due to anxiety/depression and she seemed relieved as if, "oh, thank god, it's not a real illness, I can force her back into work ASAP" and proceeded to ask what medications I was on etc.

 

Sorry that this is a long post, I just have one last question: are their workshops mandatory? My adviser keeps pressuring me to attend a workshop that lasts from 10am until 4pm and the thought of that makes my anxiety skyrocket. I feel like attending one of these would actually make it harder for me to get back into work as opposed to helping. I'm quite happy to apply for jobs and go to interviews, but sitting in a room with a dozen or more people, mock interviewing each other and being "taught" like we're in primary school again, makes me uncomfortable. I would say this to my adviser but... 1. I don't think she would care and 2. She would try to book me into a confidence building course.

[Belfaster]

 

I've always found them very invasive, too. One of my (many) last advisers once asked me why I was on ESA for 6 months and I told her for mental health reasons. This wasn't good enough for her, though, and she made it seem like I had to tell her my life story. Eventually I told her it was due to anxiety/depression and she seemed relieved as if, "oh, thank god, it's not a real illness, I can force her back into work ASAP" and proceeded to ask what medications I was on etc.

 

 

I had the same nonsense off one of these advisers at Seetec, my question to her was "At what tertiary institution did you study medicine and do you have paper evidence to show that you passed the degree in that subject?"

 

Silence ensued and the matter was never raised again!

[Nystagmite]

I found they were useless when it came to disability too. I was told by them a few mine of can't be that bad due to just being diagnosed. With one, it's possible (as happened with me) to go to bed with no problems at all and wake up with problems. And the other, it's not easy getting diagnosed. They weren't pleased when I refused their offer of "help" to get back into work. It's because of them I'm on ESA in the first place.

[Kxo]

I found they were useless when it came to disability too. I was told by them a few mine of can't be that bad due to just being diagnosed. With one, it's possible (as happened with me) to go to bed with no problems at all and wake up with problems. And the other, it's not easy getting diagnosed. They weren't pleased when I refused their offer of "help" to get back into work. It's because of them I'm on ESA in the first place.

 

I feel like I could end up back on ESA if my adviser continues to pressure me and threaten me with sanctions etc. I can prep myself for interviews and search for jobs quite efficiently without any help from Ingeus, but as soon as they step in, my anxiety kicks in and I shrivel back into my shell.

 

I get what you mean with them being hesitant to believe your illness. One of my previous advisers told me that depression/anxiety is something you can work with and it can't stop you getting a job because "I know people who have had it and still work" but not everyone has the same type of depression or anxiety -- everyone's can be triggered in a million different ways so it's ignorant of them to think they can understand it by reading about it online or hearing about it from a friend. Each case is unique, but, they don't care; they just need us to get back into work so they can meet their targets.

[Mr.P]

One of my (many) last advisers once asked me why I was on ESA for 6 months and I told her for mental health reasons. This wasn't good enough for her,[...]

 

I just have one last question: are their workshops mandatory?

 

If any "adviser" questions you about health (mental or otherwise), feel free to point out that it is a confidential matter only to be discussed with a qualified and registered practitioner. Had a similar issue with an A4e 'erbert a few years back and swiftly put him in his place by pointing out that he was not qualified in any field.

 

As for workshops being mandatory: That rather depends on the wording of any notification letter. If it states that the activity is mandatory, then you run the very real risk of a sanction if you do not attend. If the "adviser" is just suggesting an activity, and you do not feel it appropriate to your needs/circumstances, then you can decline the invitation.

 

Afore mentioned A4e 'erbert handed me a list of "courses" of varying length for basic english and letter writing. Pointed out that both he and many of his colleagues would benefit more from these activities

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Your Jobseeker's Agreement/Claimant Commitment will have a list of activities (half a dozen or so) and how often you carry them out each week or fortnight. It is important to get them right to your satisfaction from the get go. Much of what happens subsequently stems from failing to secure an agreement that you can live with. You are entitled to have that agreement reviewed at any time if it is not reasonable in your circumstances.

If any of the activities in that list specifically mentions the number of jobs that you must apply for you have been misled into agreeing to it and should consider having it changed. If no specific number is mentioned then you can tell that adviser, diplomatically, to take a flying jump.

The same applies to anything to do with UJM. We have already discussed that.

The same applies to any mention of doling out your CV to all and sundry.

Compelling you with threats of menaces to distribute personal/private details, (your CV), that could very well result in identity theft, is illegal. You are also entitled to withdraw any consent that you may have been conned into giving for Ingeus to distribute your CV to anyone without your prior consent on each occasion.

You are also entitled to request that they return to you all hard copies of your CV that they may have on their files and delete all copies held electronically. Failure to comply with such a request would be illegal.

You need not write your name or sign any written evidence of job seeking activity. It is illegal for them to retain or copy such written evidence. All they are permitted to do is check it, no ifs or buts. Likewise with emails or letters you send or receive, you can show them if you choose, they can't demand to see or keep them or copies of them. The Information Commissioner's Office website gives all the information you need to know on those issues at:

https://ico.org.uk/

Most employers advertise vacancies via employment agencies these days and one must apply via those agencies to have any chance of getting considered for the vacancy .Cold calling and begging at the gate to see the boss does not work in most cases and are a sure fire way to get one's self shunned, ignored or even blacklisted.

You are also entitled to withdraw permission for them to retain your email address and phone number, stating as a reason that they are abusing them. Using them to intimidate and harass you at home and setting up non-existent interviews.

On the subject of mandation, Unless you are given a Mandatory Notification in writing it is not a valid mandation and it can be ignored with impunity. Informing you over the phone or by email does not count as mandation.

Any activity that you are mandated for must be reasonable in your circumstances, IN YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES. I don't think that what you are being pressured into doing is reasonable in your circumstances. Failure to have due regard for your circumstances is a breach of their contract with DWP, ipso facto, illegal. The rules and regulations on mandation can be downloaded from this link:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/476220/wp-pg-chapter-3a.pdf

No need to apologise for the length of your post. Better to be as long as it needs to be to convey what you have to say rather so short and vague that it takes several posts and a sort of inquisition over several days to get to the crux of what it is all about.

Most of us have a good old rant now and again about our adversaries but remember, in any formal communication your view on what people are thinking, subjective opinion, is not only futile but may cloud the issue, or taken as libellous in extremis. Factual evidence and objectivity has to be the order of the day.

Ingeus premises are supposed to have at least one accredited member of staff with experience and training to deal with claimants who have complex issues such as you describe, so are DWP premises. You are entitled to be seen and dealt with by such a person. You are not obliged to answer any questions relating to your medical/mental condition except to accredited/qualified staff.

Unrelated incidents from the past and encounters with past advisers are in the past and there is not much that can be done about those now. You have enough to be going on with dealing with current indignities.

 

 

[jason2723637]

also to add this is why someone coming off ESA or been on it before should be given different criteria when on JSA not same as other job seekers without like in this case MH issues and/or kxo see if you can go back on ESA stay on ESA and when you either feel closer to being fit for work or fully fit for work then start job searching which you obviously can job search on ESA and then go directly into work (if you can I now what ESA lot from DWP are like zero points tribunal all that crap)

[Kxo]

also to add this is why someone coming off ESA or been on it before should be given different criteria when on JSA not same as other job seekers without like in this case MH issues and/or kxo see if you can go back on ESA stay on ESA and when you either feel closer to being fit for work or fully fit for work then start job searching which you obviously can job search on ESA and then go directly into work (if you can I now what ESA lot from DWP are like zero points tribunal all that crap)

 

I would go back on to ESA in a heartbeat if I could. I only got 6 points on my medical and failed it, meaning I had to go back onto JSA. Is it true that you can't claim ESA for the same illness that you previously claimed it for (and failed the medical for) or not?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

I would go back on to ESA in a heartbeat if I could. I only got 6 points on my medical and failed it, meaning I had to go back onto JSA. Is it true that you can't claim ESA for the same illness that you previously claimed it for (and failed the medical for) or not?

You can find information on reclaiming ESA after a failed assessment at this link:

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Employment-and-Support-Allowance/Repeat-Claims-of-Employment-and-Support-Allowance#guide-content

[jason2723637]

First thing though you could of took it to MR then tribunal that's the norm kxo (u got six lot get zero points and take it to tribunal and get the failed WCA decision overturned at tribunal) though I know this process is stressful but about the same condition query its a good question and from the link below your correct due to the "new six month rule" you cannot apply for ESA on the same condition even if six month has lapsed since your last WCA decision. But others can say if im wrong you can apply for ESA as long as its been/you been on JSA for 13 weeks (new JSA rules) plus six months since your last WCA this is cos you can still claim JSA for 13 weeks with a medical condition legally but without submitting a sick not during the same period in other words if you feel you are still unfit for work after 6 months + 13 weeks I think you can apply for ESA then take it to MR then tribunal. As this is a new rule some of the DWP own facts seem contradictory they say someone who was clamming JSA on sick for extended 13 week period and is still unfit for work would be "told" to claim ESA so I would assume even though its the same condition you would still get ESA at assessment rate till if you fail the WCA then take it to MR then tribunal also WOULD you get ESA pending appeal im not sure under the new rules in this context. if not just claim ESA stay on JSA ie to get paid and take it to MR then tribunal so you can get back on ESA. Sorry if this post seems bit cumbersome.

 

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/esa-and-abolition-six-month-rule

[Kxo]

My Ingeus adviser has told me that I need to hand out 20 CVs within the next two weeks, write down the name of the shop I hand it into and the name of the person that takes it - "preferably a manager" she said. Most retailers don't accept CVs and will tell you to just look on their website for any job openings so this is going to be a huge waste of time.

[Mr.P]

Once the Christmas & New Year are out of the way, most retailers will be cutting back on their workforce and will not be recruiting any new staff.

 

You sometimes have to wonder if these so called "advisers" have any connection with reality outside of their tiny little office.

[Kxo]

Once the Christmas & New Year are out of the way, most retailers will be cutting back on their workforce and will not be recruiting any new staff.

 

You sometimes have to wonder if these so called "advisers" have any connection with reality outside of their tiny little office.

 

Exactly. I've applied for tonnes of Christmas positions online -- all the shops in my town have websites -- so I think she is just trying to inconvenience me and employers on purpose by making me hand out CVs that will probably end up in the bin. And, as you said, the big Christmas buzz is over and they'll be letting go of most of their Christmas staff.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

My Ingeus adviser has told me that I need to hand out 20 CVs within the next two weeks, write down the name of the shop I hand it into and the name of the person that takes it - "preferably a manager" she said. Most retailers don't accept CVs and will tell you to just look on their website for any job openings so this is going to be a huge waste of time.

If you were not given a Mandatory Activity Notification (MAN) in writing you may choose to disregard the request. Even if it was in writing, for all the reasons already mentioned, it is an unreasonable request.

[Nystagmite]

Most of the people you speak to, (in shops mostly) are just staff and are rarely anything to do with management. When I volunteered, the management were mostly upstairs doing admin stuff. They won't, as mentioned accept CVs.

[sillygirl1]

A lot of the advisers are there to make sure you get 'the maximum benefit of their extensive knowledge of the local job market' or so I've been told. They KNOW that if they phone an employer to ask if X has put in a CV they will be told 'due to data protection we can't give out that information' (I know this myself as I have worked in HR departments and we were told not to co-operate with phone calls asking if X has applied for a job). They KNOW that phoning employers doesn't get you a job, they just like to pile on the pressure to make you WANT to go to work whether or not it is suitable for you.

[Kxo]

This may sound stupid, but how do you know what you can claim ESA for? With my Ingeus adviser constantly breathing down my neck, trying to force me to attend 8 hour workshops, it's pushing me further toward reclaiming ESA. I already claimed for anxiety/depression and failed my medical, so I can't reclaim for that... but I do have sciatica which leaves me in severe pain at the most random/unpredictable times; so finding a retail job where you're on your feet for 40 hours a week won't be ideal and sitting in a chair at their workshops for 8 hours won't work either. I also have B12 deficiency, anemia etc which means I have little-to-no energy, even with B12 injections.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do?

[Nystagmite]

This may sound stupid, but how do you know what you can claim ESA for? With my Ingeus adviser constantly breathing down my neck, trying to force me to attend 8 hour workshops, it's pushing me further toward reclaiming ESA. I already claimed for anxiety/depression and failed my medical, so I can't reclaim for that... but I do have sciatica which leaves me in severe pain at the most random/unpredictable times; so finding a retail job where you're on your feet for 40 hours a week won't be ideal and sitting in a chair at their workshops for 8 hours won't work either. I also have B12 deficiency, anemia etc which means I have little-to-no energy, even with B12 injections.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what I can do?

 

It's about whether or not you can work, rather than the conditions you have.

[fletch70]

Sorry to say they will not be interested if you can't stand for 8 hours or sit for 8 hours. I would talk o your GP and find a good disability advice organisation . If you live in a city with a labour council the resources will be greater than Iin a Tory rural region.

 

I am afraid with these bar stewards it is difficult.

 

Hands up who voted Tory, you are at the top of my list come the revolution.

[Madamfluff]

I am 60 I have arthritis in my knees and hands and mobility problems plus an underactive thyroid that even with meds leaves me wiped out and I can work in a shop for 40 hours a week, so unless you really are disabled and claim disability I don't see how you can convince the JC that you cant do retail work when many people older and with more problems can and do

[Nystagmite]

I am 60 I have arthritis in my knees and hands and mobility problems plus an underactive thyroid that even with meds leaves me wiped out and I can work in a shop for 40 hours a week, so unless you really are disabled and claim disability I don't see how you can convince the JC that you cant do retail work when many people older and with more problems can and do

 

But that's you. Your conditions aren't the same as everyone elses.

[Kxo]

I am 60 I have arthritis in my knees and hands and mobility problems plus an underactive thyroid that even with meds leaves me wiped out and I can work in a shop for 40 hours a week, so unless you really are disabled and claim disability I don't see how you can convince the JC that you cant do retail work when many people older and with more problems can and do

 

It's not a competition, I was just asking for advice on what to do?

[Nystagmite]

If your anxiety / depression have worsen, you can reclaim in the six month period.

[fletch70]

The problem is proving it has significantly worsened. I think that counts even after the 6 months. Just checked the gov.UK site and if you have failed a WCA you can only reclaim at all if either it is a new condition or an existing one has got a lot worse.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Roll on 2020 if we last that long

 

https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/eligibility

Edited January 12, 2016 by fletch70