Ingeus

[Bakatcha]

I see another of the CAG flock have joined Indus delta to deliver some home truths, (Work Programmme returners thread).

Yes "baloneous" is the give away.

 

Shall we have a sweepstake on the time it takes to ban?

[osdset]

Yes "baloneous" is the give away.

 

Shall we have a sweepstake on the time it takes to ban?

Ha, if the person in question targets Voice aka Dark Rogue, PDQ I would think..

[nickk]

Quite recently, I got a text saying ingeusWorks website is now live, and invited me to register with it to find work.

 

Should I use them or not. I've just finished my 2 year placement with the Work Programme. I guess the job centre will make me register with universal job match when I next sign on?

[jasta11]

Quite recently, I got a text saying ingeusWorks website is now live, and invited me to register with it to find work.

 

Should I use them or not. I've just finished my 2 year placement with the Work Programme. I guess the job centre will make me register with universal job match when I next sign on?

 

Based on your time with Ingeus, you have to ask yourself one question - will it help me? If you really think it will then fine, register - but know that it's helping Ingeus keep a track on your jobsearching and therefore helping them get paid if/when you do get a job. When I finished my 2 years with Ingeus I told them quite bluntly I wanted no further contact with them.

 

Also don't forget that, while the Jobcentre can make you create an account on UJ, they can't make you give them access to it nor receive any of their emails (don't tick the relevant permissions boxes when you register). Report the advisor if they say you have to allow them access; they know damn well they can't force you but they're hoping you won't know that.

 

If you're now about to start the Post Work programme, it's important that you show the Jobcentre that you know the guidelines and what they can and can't do, and that you're not afraid to complain if you think something is unreasonable. Might stop them sending you on pointless courses just for the hell of it - hopefully.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Based on your time with Ingeus, you have to ask yourself one question - will it help me? If you really think it will then fine, register - but know that it's helping Ingeus keep a track on your jobsearching and therefore helping them get paid if/when you do get a job. When I finished my 2 years with Ingeus I told them quite bluntly I wanted no further contact with them.

 

Also don't forget that, while the Jobcentre can make you create an account on UJ, they can't make you give them access to it nor receive any of their emails (don't tick the relevant permissions boxes when you register). Report the advisor if they say you have to allow them access; they know damn well they can't force you but they're hoping you won't know that.

 

If you're now about to start the Post Work programme, it's important that you show the Jobcentre that you know the guidelines and what they can and can't do, and that you're not afraid to complain if you think something is unreasonable. Might stop them sending you on pointless courses just for the hell of it - hopefully.

Front Line Advisers will use misinformation as a means of coercing candidates to create an account on Universal Job Match.... however, reference to Welfare Reform Legislation confirms that candidates can create an On Line Profile without recourse to Universal Job Match, and that in addressing the Universal Job Match Toolkit, it is entirely within the discretion of the candidate to provide a job search log in whatever way they see fit.

 

My own suggestion is that, every week, you source at least 10 job leads from Universal Job Match, and then apply for those vacancies using whatever mode of application is required, including through other websites. However, you do not need to use Universal Job Match as a Job Search Diary, and need not provide access to any party.

[hermit4]

I am prepared to whisleblow, I just wouldn't know how to and where to go! I have lots of information about Ingeus and have been keeping a diary for some time now.

[Chester6]

I am prepared to whisleblow, I just wouldn't know how to and where to go! I have lots of information about Ingeus and have been keeping a diary for some time now.

Could tell on here? Other forums?

[Nystagmite]

Your local newspaper?

[Mr.P]

I am prepared to whisleblow, I just wouldn't know how to and where to go!

 

Margaret Hodge MP, chair of the Public Accounts Committee - She has been somewhat scathing of the Work Programme in the past.

Amelia Gentleman amelia.gentleman@guardian.co.uk - Sympathetic towards victims of the WP and has done articles in the past knocking various providers.

 

Head of Work Programmes at the DWP (can supply name & address) - This would be the first port of call, but don't expect any earth shattering response. In all probability, it would get swept under the carpet.

 

Could tell on here?

The danger there is CAG could be shut down and the site owners pursued for libel unless supporting documentary evidence is provided.

[hermit4]

Many thanks Mr P, very useful information. Cant disclose anything on here as you are aware but something needs to be done.

[Chester6]

Margaret Hodge MP, chair of the Public Accounts Committee - She has been somewhat scathing of the Work Programme in the past.

Amelia Gentleman amelia.gentleman@guardian.co.uk - Sympathetic towards victims of the WP and has done articles in the past knocking various providers.

 

Head of Work Programmes at the DWP (can supply name & address) - This would be the first port of call, but don't expect any earth shattering response. In all probability, it would get swept under the carpet.

 

 

The danger there is CAG could be shut down and the site owners pursued for libel unless supporting documentary evidence is provided.

i was thinking of the report but forgotten the name

I just wondered if general stuff or something could be shared so others who experience it know they aren't the only one

[hermit4]

I don't know what I can say without getting into trouble so I cant really say anything much I'm afraid but I do intend on going through the proper channels to defend the taxpayer if nothing else.

[Mr.P]

Some names and addresses for you:

 

Derek French/Clare Elliot

Head of Work Programmes

Department for Work and Pensions

Level 4

Steel City House

56 West Street

Sheffield

S1 2GQ

 

Margaret Hodge MP

House of Commons

London

SW1A 0AA.

margarethodge@hotmail.co.uk

 

You could also try contacting Channel Four news:

Channel 4 News

ITN

200 Gray's Inn Road

London WC1X 8XZ

 

If you have documents to support a case of fraud, then I would urge you to send copies to:

SFO Confidential

Serious Fraud Office

2-4 Cockspur Street

London

SW1Y 5BS

[hermit4]

Thanks again, Its hard to know what I can and cant say to these people about Ingeus. I don't want to be breaking any laws by disclosing information. You seem to know what you are talking about Mr P any advice?

[Chester6]

I see another of the CAG flock have joined Indus delta to deliver some home truths, (Work Programmme returners thread).

 

I joined that too since a comment was beyond the pale via how out of touch with reality it wAs

Just been told I may be close to being blocked and a guy claims it's adviser error

[antone]

Thanks again, Its hard to know what I can and cant say to these people about Ingeus. I don't want to be breaking any laws by disclosing information. You seem to know what you are talking about Mr P any advice?

 

The main problem with information is "publishing" it. That's why we have to be careful about what appears on CAG, because anyone can read what's posted in public forums here. That clearly constitutes publication, so issues can arise with regard to the Data Protection Act and also civil liability for libel.

 

Now, when you send information to the DWP's Work Programme Office or to an MP that's not "publication". You should, however, be careful not to make allegations against named individuals if you can't substantiate them.

[honeybee13]

Some posts removed.

 

Guys, please can we bear in mind what antone said just now in post #4565.

 

HB

[osdset]

I joined that too since a comment was beyond the pale via how out of touch with reality it wAs

Just been told I may be close to being blocked and a guy claims it's adviser error

I ended up PPR'd on Indus delta after countless arguments with a WP member of the forum. TBH provider baiting on there loses it's attraction after a while because the provider element won't engage in reasonable debate, hit them with some hard facts and all they can answer back with is rhetoric.

[Chester6]

PPR? What does that mean?

[Bakatcha]

I ended up PPR'd on Indus delta after countless arguments with a WP member of the forum. TBH provider baiting on there loses it's attraction after a while because the provider element won't engage in reasonable debate, hit them with some hard facts and all they can answer back with is rhetoric.

Seconded. I was banned 4 times and had other posts censored. Quite honestly it isn't worth the effort of trying to debate on there since as soon as you start scoring points by hitting some vulnerable spots they ask the moderator to ban you.

Best to let them fossilise quietly.

[osdset]

PPR? What does that mean?

Posting Privileges Removed.

[Raven1]

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/no_legal_reasons_a_member_of_the?unfold=1#incoming-315841

 

I don't know if this has been posted on here before & frankly I haven't the time to check but it might be worth making a copy and taking it along with you to your appointments in order to produce it if your right to record is ever challenged.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Raven1

[Mr.P]

I had posted a similar FoI link elsewhere: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/recording_interactions_with_work

 

On following one of the "similar requests", I came across this: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covert_recording

 

[Questions asked by Mr Ponsford]

4) Would user be sanctioned for recording workfare provider staff

5) Would user be sanctioned for recording workfare provider staff breaking the law at workfare provider building?

 

[DWP response]

Questions 4 and 5

In order for a claimant on a programme such as the Work Programme to be sanctioned, the provider must raise a doubt about a claimant’s participation in the programme, which will be considered by a decision maker in Jobcentre Plus. It is the decision maker who will decide whether or not a sanction should be applied.

 

We do not set out in guidance to decision makers how they should deal with the situation of a claimant covertly recording a provider; however, decision makers must consider the overarching guidance that is in place. This guidance can be seen here: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/decision-makers-guide/. Claimants can be mandated to maintain standards of good behaviour as part of their participation in a programme. If a Work Programme provider raised a sanction doubt on the basis that a claimant had covertly recorded them, and that they believed that this breached standards of good behaviour, then the decision maker would decide whether or not a sanction should be applied on the basis of the guidance, and the circumstances of the individual case.

Quietly fuming at the hypocrisy and double standards implied - It is OK for an "adviser" to be rude, abusive, and/or throw a temper tantrum. A claimant gets sanctioned for breaching standards of good behaviour for quietly and covertly recording the incident.

[Chester6]

I had posted a similar FoI link elsewhere: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/recording_interactions_with_work

 

On following one of the "similar requests", I came across this: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/covert_recording

 

Quietly fuming at the hypocrisy and double standards implied - It is OK for an "adviser" to be rude, abusive, and/or throw a temper tantrum. A claimant gets sanctioned for breaching standards of good behaviour for quietly and covertly recording the incident.

It's typical of these places that are so terribly unprofessional, they want everything to suit them and fall into place as they want

As soon as you know the rules they don't even follow, protest or disagree they label you a trouble-maker, the hypocrisy would be staggering if it wasn't so predictable

[jasta11]

Good document. I'll take a copy of that, as the first thing I do at the Jobcentre is plonk my audio recorder down on the desk in front of the clerk. Nobody has challenged me about the legality of it - yet. I already know about Section 36 rule and would quote it but showing them a statement from the ICO is even better