British Gas & Power Flush

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

Dear all

I am so glad I found this forum. Can someone please help?

I am currently in dispute with BG. I had a new boiler fitted in Aug 07 and the system has never really worked properly since then. Until I read the posts on here I was quite impressed that BG had fitted the boiler and powerflushed in one working day. Only now am I starting to realise I have been conned.

I have a four bed, one bath, one shower room house. BG have fitted a WBosch Greenstar 24i but a simple call to WBosch will tell you that my house should have at least a 30CDi boiler. Many BG engineers have told me off the record that they think the wrong boiler has been fitted. I have never been able to get all the rad's hot at the same time and since Aug 07 have had numerous visits from engineers all of whom have a different opinion on the problem.

On Monday I am getting a visit from a manager who is coming to 'approve' a powerflush and having read the posts on here that may well help. It doesn't hide the fact that the boiler I have been sold is under strength for my house.

I have written to BG but as yet have had no response. I spent £3000 on the system (they weren't the most expensive) and just assumed that using BG would mean it was fitted properly. The cold spell of early Jan was really the last straw as we struggled for a week to heat the house.

Can anyone offer me some advice, particularly on the boiler issue.

The powerflush will not be charged so that is not as important but I am not prepared to give up on the boiler issue.

I look forward to hearing from someone!

THANK YOU!

[Ragtaggeorge]

Not much you can do if you have a separate pump you can turn it to the highest setting, very unlikely to make much difference though.

 

Put something in a letter, advice from fully qualified plumbers and the manufacturer state the wrong boiler was fitted.

Suggest they fit the right boiler for the job when they do the power flush or find they are facing a court case.

[Bigmac versus]

Assuming you have a system boiler and not a combi then there is only one way to find out if your boiler is the correct size for the house. The 24 model is around 84,000 btu's where the 30 model is over 100,000 btu's.

Kowing the size and type of radiators you have plus the cylinder size and type will answer that question. Will calculate for you if you supply me this information.

[slick132]

Hi IJWASTW,

 

Suggest they fit the right boiler for the job when they do the power flush or find they are facing a court case.

I think it will take more than this to get your problem resolved.

 

First, give Bigmac the data he needs, ie the size of each rad and whether its a single or double panel. Also the size or capacity of the hot water cylinder.

 

Depending on what BM says, you may need to get a suitably qualified CH Engineer to confirm if the boiler is suitable for the house system. You may have to pay for this but could use the report as expert testimony if the boiler is too small, the system is badly designed, etc and you have to take BG to court.

 

You can tell the manager visiting on Monday that you believe a powerflush may not be adequate and that you will get the system independantly checked to find what is needed to resolve your problem.

 

This may "help" him take your issue more seriously.

[Ragtaggeorge]

Just trying to help slick as the site team seem to have all the answers for all the questions and are good at patronising people who do it for free, while being paid for it I am not going to be helping anyone else on your site. Being a qualified working plumber what do I know.

[slick132]

Ragtag,

Just trying to help slick as the site team seem to have all the answers for all the questions and are good at patronising people who do it for free, while being paid for it I am not going to be helping anyone else on your site. Being a qualified working plumber what do I know.

If you re-read my post, I'm not patronising anyone. I said that I thought it would take more than the mention of a court case to resolve this issue.

 

The Site team are just like everyone else, doing what they can here to help others.

 

while being paid for it

I wish :lol:

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

Assuming you have a system boiler and not a combi then there is only one way to find out if your boiler is the correct size for the house. The 24 model is around 84,000 btu's where the 30 model is over 100,000 btu's.

Kowing the size and type of radiators you have plus the cylinder size and type will answer that question. Will calculate for you if you supply me this information.

Dear BV

Thank you for your swift response!

I hope what I give you is correct:

cylinder - 140 litre capacity

double rad's - 11

single rad's - 4

The house was built in 1982 and is detached.

Because of a 'wiring issue' I am also not able to turn off the HW when the CH is on. I am sure this could have been rectified and the time of installation but I did not realise this issue until too late.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you.

[Bigmac versus]

Hi ijustwantasystemthatworks i actually need the sizes of each radiator, if you can provide this info I can calculate your requirements and get back to you. There may be other things to take into consideration and further questions so rather than clogging this thread with what will be useless information to others we will exchange PMs if it is ok with the site team, I will however put up any info that may help others on this thread.

[slick132]

PM's for the rad sizes, etc is fine but let us know the exciting stuff, like whether the boiler is the right size or not.

 

[Bigmac versus]

Just trying to help slick as the site team seem to have all the answers for all the questions and are good at patronising people who do it for free, while being paid for it I am not going to be helping anyone else on your site. Being a qualified working plumber what do I know.

 

 

Talk about spitting the dummy out, you really shouldnt assume site helpers are paid. This group of people are UNPAID and are picked for their knowledge and ability to help others.

 

Then again if you spit the dummy out so easy maybe your better off not giving advice.

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

As I am a novice....what are PM's???!!

[Bigmac versus]

See you found what PM's are.

[jamieleeuk]

I have mixed feelings about British Gas - they took 3 years to actually find one of the countless muppets at their customer service to add my name onto the bill so that I could deal with them rather than my partner (even though the money was coming out of my account)... they also UPPED my direct debit by £18 per month even though I was £50+ in credit and it takes an eternity to speak to someone when you really need to.

 

On the other hand, I am with their Boiler Homecare service. roughly 12 months ago now, I had a problem with water leaking from the bottom of the boiler. I readied myself for a huge call-out job, I phoned British Gas customer service who insisted I take out their home care service at £26 per month - a snippet at what the actual cost of repair would have been.

 

She gave us advice over the phone until the following afternoon when the BG engineer arrived. Unfortunately, he took one look and saw that the boiler was enclosed in a cupboard and said he couldn't touch it until we ad dismantled the cupboard... pain in the edit - so he went away and came back a couple hours later and we dismantled it.

 

He was a very pleasant old chap, ready for retirement I think but pleasant none-the-less. He was nice and chatty and tried to explain the problem and told us what he was going to do - unfortunately, the "I don't have the right part" sentence rolled out - and so he left to come back in 3 days, but he left boiler wires exposed and the face of the boiler off - he managed to get his hand stook down where my water in-take is and I had to take the side off tha cupboard too to free his hand.

 

Anyway, he came back and fixed it - and he was very nice - unexpectedly so when you hear of all these rip off jobs. And a snippet at £26 a month.

 

Not had a problem since, until recently...

 

A customer service person keeps phoning to offer me bolt on products to add onto the boiler service - I keep refusing saying other policies I have in place cover me for those things, but the cold calls kep coming - they're easy enough to fob off though. But they phoned me to arrange for a check-up service, and on the report the man left (again, a pleasant man - spoke of his kids and took a personal interest which was nice) and he even went above and beyond by fixing my thermostat switch which had a crack on it - on his report he stated the boiler was 8 years old.

 

Anyway, I had a phone call from a customer service person last week who decided to let me know that I wouldn't be covered by the plan anymore as my boiler was over 10 years old?!! I bluntly told him I had a report to say my boiler is in fact only 8 years old - to which he replied "Ok Sir, I will have your records updated" ... now, call me edit stupid - but if the engineer has written a report to give me the age, why the edit is some edit telling me I am no longer covred because my boiler is older than 10 years - or is it because I refuse to take any other policies out with them - they cost me £140+ a month as it is!

Edited January 19, 2009 by slick132
language edited - please keep it clean, thanks

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

An update for you all......

I had BG here today with a manager. He agreed that the system needs to have a powerflush but they want to charge me £773!!! I was told when I ordered tghhe boiler in 2007 that this would be done but having looked through the paperwork the manager told me that this was never done as I had not paid for it.....

Tomorrow, he has organised for Worcester Bosch to come to the house to check the boiler and also to see if they think it is not powerful enough for our house. He has said he will be attending with WB. I am sure that BG are extemely large customers of WB and they will say what BG want them to say (or am I being silly???).

Have now taken this matter up with the Managing Directors office as I feel like I am being taken for a fool.

Note to BigMac - I will pass you the rad measurements tomorrow once WB have taken all the details.

Anyone have any thoughts on the above??

[slick132]

I'm sue BigMac will have something to say about the boiler being fitted without a P flush.

 

Call me a cynic, but Worcestor and BG are big buddies and would, I imagine, back one another to the hilt.

 

Hold off the MD complaint, if not already done, until you sort out the boiler size requirement for your system. Better to have all available opinion to back you up.

 

Get those sizes to BM so he can give you opinion on the boiler's suitability.

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

Daily update!

Have just supplied Big mac with all the info he requested re rad's etc so hopefully now he can work his magic with regards to our boiler requirements. I have had Worcester Bosch here today who immediately said the boiler supplied was too small. They have however said they will replace the heat exchange (i think!) as this may be blocked. This would also indicate that BG did not prepare the system correctly by powerflushing with the WB man said is clearly stated in the instruction manuel. A powerflush MUST be carried out.

The nice manager of BG also attended and offered to 'knock a bit off' the powerflush price of £773!! I controlled myself quite well but he got the point from my answer.......

The MD's office have passed my complaint to the regional boss but he failed to call me today........I made my feelings about this quite clear to Head Office and I am expecting a call tomorrow.

BG have also said they will send back the guy that did the original calculations regarding the boiler size but I have suggested he is unlikely to suddenly change his mind.

I think things are moving nicely in my direction and will not be long until I go for the jugular of BG with a new boiler (correct size) a powerflush and some compensation for the time wasted over the last 18 months.

regards to all.

[mivona]

I thought that part of any new boiler installation would be to flush the existing radiators and pipes. When I got a quote from British Gas for a replacement boiler, it included a powerflush as part of the installation, so I can hardly see how this is "optional". If WB stated that it was part of the installation process, then BG should have included that work in their contract.

[Bigmac versus]

I now have your rad sizes and will update tom evening.

[ijustwantasystemthatworks]

Thank you.

[Bigmac versus]

Ok going on the sizes you have given me you need 72,651 BTU's to heat the radiators, now this is the calculation based on NEW radiators so you can safely say that for older style of radiator you would need more. It is difficult to be exact without seeig the rads in question but I would add on around 15% which would mean you need 83,548 BTU's to heat these. There is still the hot water cylinder to calculate for and an additional 10,000 BTU's would about cover it.

 

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS 93,548 BTU's

 

Forgot to say the boiler you have has a maximum output of 82,000 BTU's so draw your own conclusion.

 

The 30 model has a maximum output of just over 100,000 BTU's but remember this will not allow for many if any add ons that you may decide are required, if you wont need to add any more rads then it would be fine.

 

Im off out to the Cup game now with my sons, come on the KIllie.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Bigmac versus

[velcro]

Hi Bigmac, gashead, et al. While you're being helpful, perhaps you could have a think about my boiler (it's a 10yr old Potterton). Last summer, at the annual service, the BG engineer held a magnet to one of the copper pipes in the airing-cupboard to show me that I'd got iron sludge building up. He recommended a power flush, but we baulked at the cost (£600), and we didn't have any cool patches at the bottom of any of our radiators.

 

Around about Christmas, our heating system started to sing to us. I couldn't find out where exactly it was singing ... seemed to be all over. Now it's decided to go on strike. The temperature in the house is quite cool (the thermostat clicks when I turn it down to about 13C, whereas it's currently set at 18C), the radiators are tepid, yet the pump is going, the boiler control is set to max, the boiler vent is venting, but only the pilot light is on (so the vent exhaust is cool).

 

Is the BG man going to tell me that he told me so? Is what we're now experiencing a symptom of a bunged-up system, or is it more likely to be a control failure somewhere?

 

Any thoughts?

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Velcro I would need more info, potterton what? Hot water ok? can you try and locate where the whistling is coming from, boiler area, pump area etc, can your radiators be bled, upstairs ones?, how log is your boiler staying on for....time it, you say the pump is running but it could be simply running slow but without additional info I couldnt be precise.

[velcro]

Hi Bigmac .. thanks for coming back so quickly.

 

It's a Potterton Profile 80e, with a vent straight out of the wall behind it. The system is open vented, with a Grundfos Selectric pump. It looks to be on setting 2, but i've not tried turning it both ways to confirm that. I'd not bled any of the rads, because when they were hot, they were hot to the top. I've just run round now, bleeding them all. Got a tiny bit of air (and i mean tiny) from a couple, but the rest were straight water. Upstairs, the water ran clear, downstairs most but not all were a nasty black.

 

The hot water was not getting enough heat to keep it hot, so had to put on the immersion heater to give it a boost.

 

The boiler ran this evening from 8:41 to 8:49 when it stopped (the house is still cold). The singing appears to be coming from the boiler itself. Within a minute of the burn starting, the singing appeared, but in the house, it was only apparent in the bathroom (the boiler is in the garage). The singing stopped before the burn finished (during the last 3 minutes of the 8 mins of the burn, the singing was intermittent, mostly just the normal boiler sounds with just occasional flurries of song).

 

The gas has been off for over 25 mins now, but the fan is still blowing air out of the vent (the exhaust gas is barely warm) - is this normal ?

 

Update: it came on again at 9:47, stayed on for 2 minutes & then shut off (not because of the timer, or thermostat). The fan was on constantly from 8:40 to 10:00 (when i called it a night & went in to warm up in front of the gas fire).

Edited January 27, 2009 by velcro

[jonesfamily]

Just found this site after searching for info about British Gas power flush. We had an annual inspection as part of our home care agreement - everything working fine before this. Just after service done pilot light would not relight. Another engineer called and cleaned things so worked ok for 4 days. Yesterday boiler cutting out and pilot light can only be relight by pressing overheat reset button - boiler very hot to touch. Having to do this every 20 mins or so. Engineer now has told me that we need a power flush at cost of £680.00 -although our radiators all hot with no cold spots etc so not sure how this causing boiler to 'overheat' and cut out. He didnt check boiler only pipes in airing cupboard. Any advice?

[389shell]

Bloomin 'ek, this thread sounds like a case for Watchdog!