British Gas & Power Flush

[slick132]

Hi NMF,

 

If the boiler is still shutting off and needs resetting, call BG back and ask that a senior engineer (get over it !!) comes to assess the problem and deal with it properly.

 

If this seems difficult for them, ask that BG get a field manager to contact you to get it resolved.

 

[MrHandyman]

Hi NMF,

 

If the boiler is still shutting off and needs resetting, call BG back and ask that a senior engineer (get over it !!) comes to assess the problem and deal with it properly.

 

If this seems difficult for them, ask that BG get a field manager to contact you to get it resolved.

 

 

NMF,

 

As slick says the best thing to do is to escalate a complaint with the field manager and have a 2nd opinion from them. With regards to the boiler shutting off I find that the main issue is usually a pressure problem, caused by a leak. You'd be surprised how many BG engineers cannot be bothered checking for leaks in a system as a cause of a fault, as it can be a lot of work checking the piping through a whole home.

[lillypad2]

Hi folks. I'm new to this forum, so please excuse me if my question has already been answered in a previous post.

 

For the past 3 years i've had 'Homecare 400' cover with BG. they came to service the boiler at the begininng of October and it's not been right since then.

 

1) Called them out 2 weeks later as the boiler sounded like it was about to take off and had lost all pressure - diagnosis was that the pressure gauge was faulty and that the previous engineer may have over pressurised system unknowingly

 

Pressure gauge and Safety valve replaced.

 

2) 1 week later the pressure had dropped to zero again. I re-pressurised it back up to 1.5 bar, but since then we have had virtually no hot water, but the central heating works fine (no cold spots on any of the radiators).

 

3) Called BG out again, only to be told that the problem was because the whole system was full of sludge and was duely left 2 quotes

 

Powerflush and replacement of domestic heat exchanger = £550.00

Or I could just have the domestic heat exchanger replaced at the cost of £250.00.

 

I queried this by phone as couldn't understand why 2 quotes were given -I either need the powerflush doing or I don't. I also pointed out that I felt it would be reasonable for them to replace the heat exchanger free of charge, and if this didn't resolve the problem then perhaps a power flush would be justified.

They refused to do this, so in a fit of anger I cancelled the contract with them.

 

I am still losing pressure is this a seperate issue altogether -expansion vessel maybe??

 

The boiler is a Vokera Maxin 24e and is about 10/11 years old.

 

Any thoughts or advice would be very welcome.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Jackie

[MrHandyman]

Jackie,

 

Seems like you live in an area where BG recruit their engineers from the local prisons; it sounds like they're trying to rob you.

 

If all was well before the service, and now there's low pressure, i'd say there is a leak somewhere. If the leak is actually from the Heat Exchanger, i would be asking the Field Manager to call and inspect it as it seems funny the damage is so soon after the service. You can request this through the callcentre.

 

The powerflush is to clean out the system, but probably wouldn't sort the pressure problem. 550.00 for a heat exchanger and p/flush is actually quote good (by BG standards) as i've seen these jobs cost up to 1500 depending on the boiler.

[lillypad2]

Thank you Mr Handyman for your reply and advice.

 

Am I right in thinking that even if there is a leak from the Domestic Heat Exchanger, this would not result in the pressure on the system dropping all of the time?(had to re-pressurise again this morning). BG originally stated that as the DHE was not working correctly due to the "scale and sludge", they were not obliged to fit a new one (terms and conditions), but surely if it has a leak then they should replace this part.

 

Now about to call them and see what response I get .

 

Thanks again Mr Handyman

[lillypad2]

Hi, I'm back again with a small update.

 

Following a conversation with the call centre at BG, I was told that as I had cancelled me contract (less than a week ago) they were unable to raise a job number for someone to come and look at the boiler again, but they are going to pass it on to their Customer relations department, and I will get a call tomorrow. I did strongly point oout that the issue with the boiler losing pressure is something that was happening when my contract was active, and that they had been made aware of this

 

Moral of the story I guess, is don't let your temper get the better of you and have a knee-jerk reaction like me by cancelling the agreement so quickly -think I've given them a 'get out clause'!

 

Will let everyone know the outcome, but I'm not holding my breath

[MrHandyman]

They can still send people out if you don't have a contract, strange that they said they can't.

 

The customer relations department will pass everything onto the field manager. Depending on where in the country you live the time it takes for them to contact you differs. They can sometimes offer you a discount on work needing done, if it is found that it was not BG's fault.

 

Regardless of the status of your contract, the work in question has been done under said contract and the complaint must be investigated regardless. I'm sure the field manager will get something sorted

[NotMyFault]

The whole reason we signed up the the BG homecare package was that it should be less hassle compared to calling a private plumber or corgi registered firm yourself. Don't forget that we are paying a lot of money for this 'peace of mind' over the course of a year. It's a real shame when the quality of the service fails you when you do have cause to use it. We shouldn't have to complain to a 'field manager' or call the service centre multiple times (or even have to moan on websites such as this).

 

Far from being a knee jerk reaction, I will be cancelling the contract as soon as we are out of the initial 12 month period. The reason is because the service I am getting is not the hassle free service that was promised by the leaflets or the call centre staff that sold it to me.

 

To lillypad and the others who are currently having problems I hope you all get your problems sorted soon.

 

For me, I will be looking to stop being a BG homecare customer ASAP.

[MrHandyman]

To be fair NMF, not all problems are sorted first time. Not just with boilers, but with all mechanical equipment, and also with service across all industry.

 

The replacement of one part can in turn require another part to be replaced, and this may not be known until after the initial repair. The job recall rate for BG was less than 4% the last time I checked, and there are a lot of very happy people out there as it is (most of the time) a good service.

 

With regard to your one diagnosis call and one repair call, I personally would suggest giving the engineer another try to get your problem sorted, instead of shooting yourself in the foot and canceling your contract with charges being incurred, or paying for someone else to call fro another company.

[busymamae]

Hi,

I have two radiators downstairs that takes ages to heat up. I have HC and BritishGas told me that a powerflush will solve this problem. I am afraid that if I use another company and the powerflush does not solve the problem, BG can blame the company that did the powerflush and I may have a cold winter ahead dealing with two companies

 

1)british gas breakdow prices

powerflush (12 radiators package) £690

hydroflow: £146.62 (quoted as i live in a hard water area)

Magnaclean:£100

Total: £937.62

total with no hydroflow£790

 

2)pflush

powerflush(12 radiators) is £540

The magnaclean is £170

total£710

 

3)expertpowerflush (5 years guarantee)

powerflush: £460

magnaclean is £150

total is £610

 

What would you do?

[kittycat2009]

Hi there,

 

I have called BG out 3 times in the last month (under my Home Care agreement) to deal with the problem of my boiler not turning itself off! Basically it will reach the set temperature on the thermostat and click off, but immediately switch itself back on again - our house was like a sauna when I got home from work one day last week. The only way to get it to turn off is by actually switching it off at the power, as it also seems to ignore the 'off' setting.

Anyway, BG haven't been able to rectify it, but are convinced that a PF will sort out the problem. They said that the sludge was building up and interfering with the valve. This is inspite of the fact that they clean the said valve each time they come and it still looks clean to me! Our radiators are heating up fine (no cold spots) and the whole system is quiet (no pipe banging). If I don't have a PF then BG will not come back if the problem continues. We have a Maxi Solo boiler which is approx 12 years old.

Does this sound like a PF will sort the problem, or are BG trying to fleece me for £800? I feel like I am being held to ransom!!

[slick132]

Hi Busymamae and Kittycat, and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope one of our heating experts will stop by and advise you both so please be patient. In the meantime:-

 

Busymamae When you say downstairs rads, do you mean ground floor or basement. What boiler do you have and how old is it.

 

Kittycat Is there a separate roomstat somewhere or just the thermostat on the boiler itself.

[NotMyFault]

kittycat2009. I am not a gas service technician but from what you say I wouldn't immediately say that your system needs a power flush! Have they even looked to see if the control electronics is broken or perhaps a faulty temperature sensor?

 

I think somebody has already mentioned here that the BG guy that comes round gets a commission on every power flush and or magnaclean they sell. Goes some way to explain why they are pushing them like crazy.

 

Busymamae. Have you tried letting the air out of your 2 radiators? You might also like to consider getting quotes for replacing your two radiators - if they really are full of sludge as the BG guy says.

 

Are BG technicians actually just a team of sales people / rip-off merchants? Just from the various problems people are talking about here, it certainly sounds very probable!

 

My parents' house has a central heating system that was fitted before they bought it. They have had it for more than 25 years. It has had a boiler replaced once that I can remember in that time. But it has never ever had a 'power flush'. All the radiators are the same and the whole system is working just fine!

 

Got a back problem? You must have a power flush or else we won't cover you!

[kittycat2009]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your replies. Yes, there is a separate thermostat in my lounge, but BG have inspected it and said its working fine. They also replaced the control panel (sorry, that's probably not the right technical term!) under the boiler with a shiny new one just in case the buttons were sticking and making the heating stay on.

Again, BG say they can't find any fault with the system or thermostat so it must be the build up of sludge. If I did go ahead with the PF, would I be in the right to ask BG for my money back if the problem still continued afterwards? I must also say that the system was working fine up until BG did their annual check in the summer (the engineer only appeared to change fuse though!)

[lillypad2]

:grin:Hi Folks.

 

Back with an update. I was contacted by a BG tech support manager today, and he's just been around to inspect the boiler.

 

Following a discussion about the boiler and its loss of pressure (during which BG said that I appeared to know more than most of his engineers!) and what may be causing this it was decided to isolate the central heating, with the thought that if the boiler continues to lose pressure then at least we will know that the 'leak' is coming from the boiler and not the central heating system -does this sound correct?

 

If this is so, then he suggested that I take out another Homecare Contract so that they could come and rectify the problem. Have argued that I think they should rectify this problem anyway as it was a fault that was reported before I cancelled my previous contract. The response was that "they had tried, and it is not always possible to fix every boiler".

 

Having said that, I am of the opinion that the Domestic Heat Exchanger probably does need replacing, but not for £250.00 (told him that I can source this part for £65.00). BG man said "that we could probably come to an arrangement".

 

Have agreed to keep an eye on pressure for next 48 hours, and will contact him with result.

 

Any thoughts from anyone on this , and what I should or shouldn't be insisting on (Mr Handyman where are you )

 

Regards Jackie

[Blackadder43]

Hello everyone, my first post here.

I am a qualified and registered Gas Engineer (no i do not work for BG) and i also own a Power flushing unit.

I have Read this whole thread and have a few things to say:

 

To the haters of Power flushing, please do not judge how effective this process is just by how much British Gas charge for this service.

 

I have many many happy satisfied customers who i have done a power flush for.

I charge a lot under Half the price that British Gas charge and probaly do Twice as much work and spend twice as much time.

A 10 to 12 radiator house i charge between £250 and £300, this includes all chemicals and inhibitor

A standard 10 to 12 radiator house will take me 7 hours from start to finish, i do it by the book and some.

I believe in a fair days pay for a fair days work.

 

If British Gas tell you that you need a power flush then please ask a couple more plumbing firms for their advise and quotes, i almost guarantee they will be at least half the price.

British gas have to hike their prices up to pay the commision and show a profit.

A power flush should not be used as a "this will fix all your problems" because it wont, a power flush will be needed when specific circumstances arise.

This is where independant advise is vital.

 

 

In answer to Lillypad2:

 

To be honest if you are having to pressurise your system that often then where the leak is going to be blatently obvious.

Even more so if it is from the boiler, that is a lot of water to be leaking somewhere.

By isolating the boiler then yes it will tell you which side of the boiler the leak is coming from, he should close the heating flow and return valves under the boiler, if the pressure still drops then it is leaking from the boiler somewhere, if it stays up then you have a leak elsewhere in the pipework/radiators.

If it is from the boiler then sometimes the "o" rings fail in the pipework leading to the heat exchanger, i had one like this and when i took the cover off i had 2 inches of water cover me.....that was a fun day.

[busymamae]

HI slick132

The boiler is 5 years old (prottaton promax h15 -something like that)

there are 10 radiators, and two of the radiators on the ground floor takes ages to heat and when they do they are just warm.

The BG engineer fixed a fault with the boiler (pilot light wont start) he changed something that controls the pilot light.

The house is from 1935, the water from the radiators are black ... anway I have a cold downstairs and until I do the power flush BG wont do anything about it.

My problem was that I don't know any reliable company to do it and the price that BG is charging is much more expensive than the others.

Someone told me about my-plumber company in Chiswick and they charge £520 while BG charges £690 for the powerflush.

I would appreciate if people could tell me about reliable plumber company that covers Twickenham area and do power flush

[Blackadder43]

busymamae

 

A powerflush should cost between £250 to £350 for a house that size, although having said that i live in the south west so prices may vary.

Phone 2 or 3 plumbing firms or better still ask around your friends or at the local pub for recomendations.

Nearly all my work comes from people talking to each other.

It should take most of the day to do a house your size, 5 hours being the absolute minimum.

Hope this helps

[Bigmac versus]

The problem you have may still not show up by seperating the boiler from the system, if for example the expansion vessel is gubbed then it wont show up by sitting idle.

[lillypad2]

Hello Blackadder43.

 

Many thanks for your advice. The BG man has done as you suggested (hence me now sitting in a flat with a gas fire as my only source of heating- still it's not that cold). Should just add that all of my pipe work is above ground, and I think I would have noticed if there was a leak by now(also have mostly laminate flooring)

 

If it is the 'O' rings, as you suggest, then would replacing these give me back hot water? Or am I being to hopeful that, that would be the end of my woes . I will make reference to the 'o' rings and see what they say.

 

BG man did admit that I haven't had the best of service from them -made me feel so much better (not).

 

Will post the outcome, and if your right about the cause of the fault, then I will consider billing them, and will owe you a pint or two

 

Regards Jackie

[lillypad2]

Hello Bigmac Versus.

 

I did suggest that I thought the expansion vessel could be at fault, but if this was where the leak is, would this not over pressurise the system, therefore I would find water escaping from the overflow pipe (not the right word, but cant remember what it is) outside?

 

Jackie

[Blackadder43]

Lilly

It is quite possible you have a combination of problems here.

 

If the "o" rings have perished or failed then no it wont fix your lack of hot water, but it would stop the leak if thats where it was coming from.

 

Ok, i had to look back to your original post to refresh my mind.

Please be aware it is very difficult to dignose problems over tinternet

 

The banging and taking off of your boiler "could" be sludge or metal particles going through the heat exchanger and partialy blocking it causing the boiler to cook and make steam pockets, hence the banging and rattling noises.

A powerflush would rectify this.

 

Your leak:

if you had to repressurise after only a week then the leak should be obvious to find.

One possibilty is something some people do when changing parts on a boiler ,they use the prv (pressure relief valve) to drain the boiler down enough to do repairs (this is usualy a red knob inside the boiler attatched to a 15mm copper pipe which goes outside through the wall and terminates loosely against the wall) . Often these prv do not seat themselves down properly after being opened , hence the losing of water.

A test is to put a balloon over the end of the pipe outside the house which is attatched to the prv , if it fills with water then you have found your leak.

Replacing the prv is the best option, messing about with it in the hope of seating it correctly is the cheap option.

 

Now to your lack of hot water.

It "could" be the domestic hot water diaphragm, these are common faults and easily fixed.

If the diaphragm is split then it wont operate the micro switch to tell the boiler that you want hot water.

A DHW diaphragm repair kit is approx £10 to £15 and can be sorted in a couple of hours.

Its the first thing i would look at if you reported no hot water.

Hope this helps and please dont hold me to anything as it is very difficult to diagnose over tinternet.

[ringoffive]

Hi, this is an amazing site with clearly some great contributors and I'd be grateful to have an opinion from some of the posters regarding my boiler problems? We purchased a new house in 2004 and it came with a new Keston C40 boiler. We've got three stories and the rads on the top floor have never really got as hot as the ones on the ground and first floor. Just over two years ago the heat exchanger failed, all the seals had corroded and I called BG who replaced the part which with labour came to about £800!!! As a result I took out a homecare 400 plan. 18 months ago the fan failed and in fairness this was replaced without cost. The boiler stopped working again last night and BG came today and said the heat exchanger had failed agian! The BG man (without taking the boiler apart) said that this was almost certainly due to a build up of sludge and blamed it on the fact that when the house was built the rads were fitted with plastic pipes (this is more relevant in a bit) and that having the heat exchanger replaced again was one thing but I would require a 'Power Flush' at the cost of around £750 which is of course not covered by my policy to prevent this happening again!!! He then went on to say that if I didn't have the Power Flush that my HomeCare policy would no longer cover me as he had advised it and I'd failed to act, he then explained that even if I did have the Power Flush the supossed lifetime guarantee that comes with it would not be applied to my property because we have plastic piping in the house and not copper? The BG man also suggested I have a MagnaClean fitted instead of or as well as the Power Flush again at my cost, another £250! I have a few questions I'd love an experts opinion on -

 

1) Do I really need a Power Flush and or MagnaClean at a combined cost of £1,000 and how could the BG man tell without taking the boiler apart!!!!!!??????

 

2) Is plastic piping really inferior to copper and could it be as the BG man suggested the route casue of the suspected sludging up? (which has yet to be proved as the boiler hasn't even been dismantled yet).

 

3) Is it common place for two heat exchangers to fail in such a short space of time? Could the second heat exchanger failure be down to a poorly fitted replacement, or am I clutching at straws?

 

4) As the boiler has never really worked that well does anyone else have experience of a similar boiler and problems?

 

Thank you in advance for any help or assistance offered.

Edited November 20, 2009 by ringoffive

[busymamae]

ringoffive BG quote me £690 for 10 radiators and if I did the magnaclean at the same time it would add only £100 as they would not charge for the labour.

[ringoffive]

Hi thanks for your input, I've just counted the number of rads and we've got 20. They are not all the same size in fact some are tiny, so by rad count it appears BG are offering me a better deal but I'm still not convinced it's something which would need doing in a house which is only 5 years old? It was the way without even looking into the boiler or carrying out a water sample the man from BG jumped straight to the conclusion that a build up of sludge was to blame and a Power Flush was the soultion? Just seemed to smack or finding something to charge me for, he even had the leaflets handy in his pocket. I don't doubt the benefit of a Power Flush when required but surely these would for the most part be older boilers and systems? Anyone else have thoughts on the subject? I'm also keen to hear peoples opinion on the other thing the BG man said about plastic pipes being more of a problem than copper and saying even if I had the Power Flush the guarantee wouldn't apply becasue of the plastic pipes? Thanks.