What annoys you about railway companies?

[Stigy]

One train I used on Friday was announced as being 'formed of 8 carriages'. A lot of folk wandered to the front of where an 8 car set would stop, it arrived, incidentally spot on time, but only 4 carriages long. The driver 'did the right thing', and waited for all the passengers to get on, and left 1 minute late.

I've been rather embarrases before to wait for what I thought would be a 12-car train at the designated 12-car marker, only to discover that the PIS was obviously wrong and only 4 coaches turned up!

[Wriggler7]

As I say, it was a 'little thing', but passengers standing around with 'nothing to do' mentally add up all of the little things, and form 'an opinion'.

 

As to whether it is the 'TOC' or 'Network Rail' or 'the Ministry' that is to blame for 'weather related delays', the customer, that is to say a fare paying passenger, will blame 'the railway'. One of my 'slow burning/on the back burner' gripes is that somehow, out of all the chaos, the TOCs seem able to produce statistics that show that everything was either 'perfect' or at least 'better than before'.

 

Before 'privatisation', if a train was late, it was late. After it, if it was late because of something outside the direct control of the TOC, it seems that it does not contribute to statistics which indicate overall operating efficiency. I watch, and do not have alternative statistics with which to argue a case, as my local line publish statistics which tell me that the TOC is damn near perfect. Their statistics simply do not seem to reflect 'the truth', and I wonder if a firm of accountants normally employed by Arthur Daly now have the job of producing them.

 

Are 'TOC's in the business of putting sawdust in gearboxes and winding back clocks to sell railways with 'one lady owner', and very low mileage?

[Wriggler7]

Many folk who post in this forum are employed by railway companies. What they might want to contemplate is that if their employer is comfortable to publish statistics regarding train running efficiency that are 'creatively' compiled, then it is reasonable to assume that they will also publish statistics compiled in the same way that 'prove' that they do not need so many staff, or that those staff are 'happy', or that those staff worship and adore their current management.

 

I am also 'surprised' with the results of passenger satisfaction surveys. I see and hear the 'whole world' moaning about railways, and then the survey results which show that passengers are amazingly happy with the service provided. Again, I have no 'alternative statistics', but there seems to be something rotten in the state of Denmark.

[Wriggler7]

Yesterday, (Friday) I used 4 trains. First was spot on time, despite very cold weather. Second was 14 minutes late. The reason? Icicles from a footbridge in the Upney area. (I am the sort of passenger who 'asks') Not sure I understand the 'engineering' and 'technical' side of it, but apparently, this affected the overhead wire and caused 'ADD' tripping. (Anyone able to tell me what an 'ADD' is?)

 

Trains 3 & 4 were spot on time, so well done for that.

 

So what annoyed me?

 

There was no information explaining the lateness of the second train. I 'found' staff (actually, I had a meeting with one, and 'took the opportunity) The first member of staff I saw on arrival from the late train is an excellent cleaner. I have seen her work, and it must be said that she does a grand job of tidying up after the troglodytes that seek to destroy the station and local environment every night. She, naturally, wears the vest and uniform that identifies her as working for 'the railway'. Unfortunately, the school that she went to did not teach English, and asking her anything, unless you are fluent in Bulgarian or Russian, is never going to get a sensible answer. For the 'ordinary' passenger, there would have been no explanation for the travel delay.

 

When I finally left the railway, after 'bang on time' journey number 4, I looked at the clock on the 'branded' information board outside the station. The hands have not moved for several years now.

[Wriggler7]

Given the weather, three out of four is impressive, so 'well done' to all the operating grades who got the trains out on time.

 

What the railway needs to understand is that when people are 'stuck' for even 14 minutes, they get bored and see all of the 'faults'. The station I was stuck at was fundamentally dirty. Peeling paint, uneven platform surface, dreaded pigeon poo, and no visible staff.

 

There was that irritating and soulless mechanical voice which repeated an apology. I cannot take seriously a computer generated apology. It is as phoney as a letter from an insurance company telling me that they love me and want to save me money by selling me something I don't need.

 

These are all 'management' issues, and my views on railway managers are 'known'.

[SRPO]

You need to sleep more, wriggles!

[Wriggler7]

Indeed I do, but the only people I know who get paid for sleeping are clients with the sort of occupation that sometimes makes it onto the front page of the News of the World, if their 'client' was 'famous'.

[green_and_mean]

One of my annoyances is SWT having cycle free services during peak hours and doing nothing to stop cycles being taken on the trains. I have nothing against cycles on trains as a cyclist myself but I don't use the trains in peak hours with my bike because station announcements clearly state I can't so why can't they stop others doing so?

[Stigy]

One of my annoyances is SWT having cycle free services during peak hours and doing nothing to stop cycles being taken on the trains. I have nothing against cycles on trains as a cyclist myself but I don't use the trains in peak hours with my bike because station announcements clearly state I can't so why can't they stop others doing so?

I agree. In some cases trains are advertised as being 'cycle free' at certain stations or on certain trains whereby it's not really necessary. It's always up to the specific train crew as to whether they let cycles on their trains. Fold-up bikes don't count so long as they are small enough to fit in to the storage racks on the train.

 

There's no specific byelaw in order to enforce this either, although you could argue that the notices on the Customer Information Screens are safety notices and enforce it that way? Also, I'd say they if anybody refuses to leave a service when requested due to this then they are disobeying a reasonable request...

[Wriggler7]

Bikes on trains. Messy subject. Why can't I take my bike on that train? 'It takes up too much room.' 'Why can she take a double buggy and two screaming kids?' 'Because it is not a bicycle.'

 

How to enforce a 'bike' policy is another matter. Policies and common sense do not mix well, as soon as staff use 'common sense', 'other passengers' demand that common sense be stretched to their personal circumstances. The reason that bikes are banned from certain trains is that of space, but if you look at (for example) a train leaving Shoeburyness for London, there will be plenty of space until the train reaches Leigh on Sea or Benfleet. So why can't a passenger take a bike from Shoeburyness to Chalkwell?

 

Common sense says allow it, but practical experience with the 'Great British Public' shows that if you do, you will then have a major argument with the guy who is going to Basildon, or London. Of course, it doesn't help that the staff who have to enforce this policy are (in the main) the lowest paid, the least cared for, and more times than not 'agency' staff.

[green_and_mean]

My point wasn't really that it was needed or not just that it seems stupid to have a rule/policy and not enforce it. I often feel a bit lazy and consider taking my bike home on the train after a long day at work but I don't like to flout the rules, even if others are. Its a bit like having platforms as no smoking areas and standing there dying for a ciggie whilst a group of smokers puff away in full view of station staff....what do you do light up or just tow the line? I just know that on the one occasion I do decide to try and sneak my bike on the train I will be turfed off......its sods law!!

[Wriggler7]

A few years ago, the 'Underground' organised a wonderful 'do' known as 'Steam on the Met'. Steam trains running between Rickmansworth and Amersham.

 

I wangled a (sort of) VIP pass, and attended with a mate who was a chain smoker. We had both been on the footplate of a BR Mogul, during a shunt movement, and stepped onto Amersham platform, my mate with his customary fag on. A young LUL TTI approached and quite politely said "You can't smoke here." My Mate said "Why's that?" Young TTI said "Its a fire risk."

 

He was not sure what to do about two mature men collapsing in heaps of laughter next to a mobile bonfire.

[Wriggler7]

Enforcement of rules will always be a contentious issue. Every 'fare dodger' with whom I have spoken has whinged that 'they do nothing about the guys who climb over the fence', or 'why don't they do something about x,y & z'.

 

Some rules/laws are not enforced because they are obsolete. I hated (as a child) being obliged to stand whilst my mum nattered with other women outside the butchers/bakers on the pavement. Early in my law lessons, I was taught the offence of obstructing the highway, and wished that an elderly constable would have appeared and told my mum and the other women to 'move along'. And the good offence of driving/riding carriages on the footpath at the side of the road. (Highways Act 1835) A pram is a carriage. Ever see a traffic warden report a young mum for pushing a pram on a pavement?

 

Other rules are not enforced because it is not practical to do so. How does one young 'platform staff' stop 8 drunks from smoking at 11pm? He can ask, he may have powers to require that they leave, but he has to think of his own safety. Will 'the police', like Custer and the 7th Cavalry, suddenly appear? (I found myself in the middle of a 'bit of a do' at a railway station when two constables did appear, it all turned quite unpleasant, and I ended up doing first aid on one of the Constables, two against 6 is not 'clever')

 

Enforcement has to be paid for, and some locations, the expense far outweighs the 'benefit'. A town near me never has parking regulations enforced, not since the destruction of the warden's van, and the general threat to anyone foolish enough to try to put a ticket on a car. It would take the Brigade of Guards to stop people parking outside the chippie/offie and cash points. But then, if the residents of that town are happy with dog excrement on their pavements, parking chaos, and 'the rest', why should the tax payer of the neighbouring towns stump up?

[Wriggler7]

Old Codja and his friends 'enforce' what they can, but 'good order' has to come from a 'greater group'.

 

All of us have a responsibility to firstly act decently towards our fellow 'man', our environment and our society. We have a responsibility to educate those over whom we have charge, and a responsibilty to try to influence those around us. I think that is part of what Cameron means with his 'big society' stuff.

 

With 'rose tinted specs' I look back on my youth, when 'order' was kept by 'all grown ups'. The old spinster librarian would 'shush' us nippers, and if our response was not immediate and correct, the rest of the 'grown ups' would be on 'her side'. My beloved Gran enforced 'no riding bikes on the pavement' in grand East Ham style, dismissing the miscreant with a heavy wedding ring around the lughole. (I was terrified for weeks in case I met him without my Gran) My memories suggest it was a better time, less juvenile obesity, good television on one channel, Alvar Liddell speaking 'proper'.

 

I wonder if there is a statistic that agrees with my views?

[Old-CodJA]

I wonder if there is a statistic that agrees with my views?

 

I'd guess it's that vast silent majority.

[Wriggler7]

Oh dear, we seem to be drifting away from the purpose of this thread, mea culpa.

 

To my mind, the purpose of the CAG is to collate and represent the views of consumers 'against' the organisations and services that deliver the products that 'we' consume'.

 

Specifically, this thread is supposed to be a place to 'whinge' about 'railway companies', and suggest remedies for those grievances.

 

Most of the other threads in this forum start by people who stand accused of breaches of regulation. I am quite happy for them to obtain the advice and views from 'members', preventing abuses of 'power' by 'enforcers' is important in the worls I am obliged to live in. Without 'defence' in such matters, our nation could slide towards those states where 'officials' can effectively act like bandits. We are all familiar with how (Under Galtieri) Argentinian, (under Amin) Ugandan, (during the 'break up') Yugoslavian and other 'authorities' abused their citizens.

 

Easily accessible, fair and open 'law' is very important.

[Wriggler7]

Many 'posters' talk of rude/arrogant 'inspectors'. I have clear memories of the early 1990s, when my local line did indeed employ some thugs, and they did not last very long. Then there was another lapse into 'strangeness', when suddenly, 'doormen' appeared along the route. That, too, was a short deviance, and now, it is my experience that the 'inspectors' that I meet as a passenger are 'well behaved'.

 

There are other posts suggesting that ticket machines were not working, trains were late, facilities were not up to scratch.

 

If, as Old Codja surmises, the problem stems from a 'silent majority' being silent, and I know that he is correct on that point, then 'we' need to 'stir the masses'. Not into a 'French Revolution', but into a bass/baritone rumble of discontent, using the proper channels and the power of the 'pen'. (As Musashi taught us: The pen and the sword are in accord)

 

If you want things to improve, you must do something about it. All railway companies have registered offices and 'customer relations' teams.

 

In 2011, if there is something that annoys you about your local railway, write to them. Make your points clearly, stick to one issue per letter. Support your 'whinge' with checkable facts.

 

{There are many suggestions that train services were abysmal during the recent weather, be specific. What train did not run, which station did not have information, where were the waiting rooms closed?}

 

Railways are obliged to publish statistics regarding numbers of complaints. The numbers recorded only prove that the majority of people in this country are too apathetic to get their pen out. You do not even need to pay postage. Your complaints may be handed in to ticket offices, or posted using the 'freepost' addresses. My personal experiences are that ticket office clerks will be pleased to forward your complaint, they are often fed up with hearing legitimate 'whinges', and knowing that if they simply pass them on verbally, nothing much will happen.

[Wriggler7]

Railways also sponsor independantly run 'consumer surveys'. When you are standing on a dirty station, waiting for a late train, and the little old lady in a bobble hat approaches you and tells you about the survey she is carrying out, answer her questions, fill in the questionnaire that she hands you, make your voice heard.

 

I read the results of the customer satisfaction surveys with complete disbelief. My local station has automatic doors that do not work, toilets that are worse than any I have found in rural France, a roof that drips water, drain pipes from the canopy that gush like miniature Niagara falls, a mechanical announcer with an irritating voice, making spurious announcements in a form of English reminiscent of early 1960 Japanese car manuals, and yet the statistic says that the 4,000 regular passengers are 90% happy with it. As less than 10% smoke dope outside the station before entering, there must be something wrong with the 'numbers'.

 

I think it is 'apathy'.

[Wriggler7]

My instinct, supported by anecdotal comments from staff, is that the Old Codja's, SRPOs and the other folk brave enough to admit being railway men and women, will thank you. The front line staff are the ones that go home, day after day, exhausted by the complaints and comments from passengers who they will see again tomorrow. They are the people who have to use inadequate equipment and work in a poor environment. Very often, they work for pay that is risable.

 

You may wonder why they don't leave. A lot of them are, or were, railway enthusiasts. Not of the 'themos flask and note book' variety, but of a more solid enthusiastic belief that railways are a very important part of our social fabric. Imagine the chaos on our roads without the railways. Many of them enjoy providing a service. All of the ones that I know prsonally would love to give a better service.

[honeybee13]

There are some very good points in what you say, Wriggler. My OH also had tough times last week with London Midland commuter trains and I'm going to nag him until he puts it in writing and sends it for free . I can imagine how the staff must feel if they deal with OH x 25 daily!

 

Thank you, HB

[Old-CodJA]

Wriggler7 is absolutely right. Apathy is the enemy of improvement so far as railway service is concerned.

 

That 90% majority aren't happy with his local station's services at all, but they aren't saying so in a manner that will make a difference. They will happily whinge amongst themselves, all leaving it to someone else to formally complain, all too busy to fill in a 'customer satisfaction survey', all too consumed by the thought that complaining doesn't make a difference.

 

By all means go and moan at the booking clerk, station staff or whoever, but don't expect change on that basis.

 

These predominantly good and caring frontline staff will pass on verbal complaints, but that's all they can do. It's incredibly easy for low grade, local management to deal with these by saying 'Tell him/her we'll look into it and thanks for bringing it to out attention' then promptly forgetting all about it.

 

What will make a difference is when your local route service delivery manager cannot see his or her desk for the mountain of letters of complaint, all logged into the 'complaint by mail received' statistics and all needing a corresponding 'replied to' entry on that same system. (The companies all have different back-room processes, but all take public complaints into account when compiling satisfaction surveys & reports.)

 

The only way to get rid of that continuous pile of letters is to deal effectively with the complaints that generate them. For them to take notice the weight of letters has to be sufficient to be a significant issue. Be a real pain in 'R's at that level if necessary.

 

Tell the service delivery manager that you have copied your letter to the local press, councillors, MP, ATOC 'Old Uncle Tom Cobley et al' and demand a satisfactory reply by a given date, specifiying how, where and when you can expect to see improvements.

 

In my experience, frontline staff who in many cases are grossly undervalued and demoralised by many companies, but who see you prepared to put a proper complaint through these channels can become incredibly helpful in providing all the necessary contact details and advice if asked.

 

Happy New Year

Edited December 29, 2010 by Old-CodJA

[Wriggler7]

What did they do today to annoy me?

 

The automatic sliding door is still stuck half open. That is a fortnight now. I lowered my umberella on entering the station, after all, it has a proper canopy and a roof over the stairs.

 

Rain went straight down my neck, the glass roof slid during the snow (so I am told), and rain was as bad inside as it was out.

 

I am told that these building faults have been reported. I understand that the holiday will have caused some difficulties with 'call outs' and the like. But, collectively, it seems to me that the 'care' for the infrastructure is a touch short of what it should be. If parking in Southend was a bit cheaper, I doubt that many of us would use 'my local' station.

[SRPO]

My instinct, supported by anecdotal comments from staff, is that the Old Codja's, SRPOs and the other folk brave enough to admit being railway men and women, will thank you. The front line staff are the ones that go home, day after day, exhausted by the complaints and comments from passengers who they will see again tomorrow. They are the people who have to use inadequate equipment and work in a poor environment. Very often, they work for pay that is risable.

 

You may wonder why they don't leave. A lot of them are, or were, railway enthusiasts. Not of the 'themos flask and note book' variety, but of a more solid enthusiastic belief that railways are a very important part of our social fabric. Imagine the chaos on our roads without the railways. Many of them enjoy providing a service. All of the ones that I know prsonally would love to give a better service.

 

 

Just to clarify, I am not a member of railway staff, however in my current role I have a fairly close relationship with revenue protection & prosecution departments of a number of TOCs.

[Draconian]

What annoys me about train companys ??? Everything , Dirty stinking stations . filthy dirty Toilets , overpriced Tickets , Rude stroppy staff . Ugly dirty flatforms . No Waiting rooms open in F******* freezin weather , Going to work on Trains with other people , Twats walking up and down carrage because they think they will get off closer to exit which will save them 10 secs so theres a constant parade of twats walking through banging doors Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I HATE TRAINS . Ban them !!!

[Wriggler7]

There is much wrong in the world, and students of certain disciplines would suggest banning people.

 

However, we live in a very mobile society, where most folk that work in London live way outside even the 'suburbs'. Whilst that continues to be the case, railways are incredibly important. Equally, there is huge merit in shifting the goods that are demanded by rail.

 

I make no apology for strongly believing in 'railways', but I am no fan of the companies that run them.

 

Since dragging the Directors into the town square and using Madame Guillotine is not an option, we need to undrstand how to use the methods that are available and lawful to attempt to correct some of the issues that 'annoy' us.

 

If there is a specific issue, use the written complaint route.