What annoys you about railway companies?

[Wriggler7]

Perhaps you should all go to Basildon on 24th May, shortly after 8am, there will be a fine example of how to run a train. A steam charter! Lots of carriages, all seats sold, dining car, and a coal burning engine at the front!

 

That should blow some of the litter out of the station!

[Maxwell TM]

I totally agree that trolley service on long journeys is not the best option and that replacing HSTs or loco hauled sets with 4/5 coach sets was at best, short-sighted. Further electrification, freeing up more Voyager and similar sets for use on XC serices would be a boon. However, there is talk of a gee whizz fix to add a coach with pantograph and the kit to run Voyagers from the overhead where this is available. Currently, these trains run considerable distances 'under the wires' in the North and Midlands. This could add 70+ seats to a set.

 

It's far more complicated than "adding a couple of coaches" though. The Voyager sets could possibly be strengthened, (leaving aside the electric option), but as each coach carries its own engine, that would be an expensive option. Obviously the best solution would be to couple 2 sets together, giving an 8 9 or even 10 coach train, depending on the sets coupled. Unfortunately, there are not enough sets to allow this as a general practice, although some trains are lengthened in this way.

 

Services to the West and Wales are still handled by HSTs, usually 8 car. These have had more face lifts than Anne Robinson but are now 35 years old and it shows. New trains are mooted for the latter part of this decade. Then perhaps the best of the HST fleet could be fitted with plug doors and retention WCs for use on cross country lines.

[sailor sam]

Forgive my ignorance Maxwell, but arn't Voyagers diesel? And there is no overhead electrification on the route untill Coventry.

 

Sorry to say this, but I think in many ways the railways have gone backwards instead of forwards. I mean it's only untill recently that we can have trains travelling in excess of 125mph, something which was last acheived by a steam loco; Mallard!

 

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[Maxwell TM]

XC Voyagers run under the wires up the East Coast as far as Edinburgh and also up the WCML Their diesels are obviously needed for the gaps, many of them in the south, but it expensive and wasteful to have 3000+ HP of polluting fossil fuel engines running when there is an overhead electricity supply.

 

Mallard was on a test train and long distance service speeds of 125mph did not arrive until HSTs were rolled out in the mid 70s. This of course is small beer compared to the Spanish, French, Italians, Germans, Japanese etc etc who have much faster services. Even in Portugal, there are long stretches passed for 140mph running which is achieved with Alfa Pendular tilting trains. Our railways have stagnated, but not those of our neighbours and beyond.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Maxwell TM

[Wriggler7]

There are so many ways in which the railways have regressed. Was a time that Sam could have driven his Morris 8 to the station, rolled it onto a train, and then had it with him to drive around Manchester. The new trains failed to capture all the good features of the old ones. 'Multiple units', diesel or electric, are great at saving employing shunters, but do not provide the flexibility of older stock. Even if you have one, you cannot simply stick an 'express' parcels van into a formation to carry all the extra bikes going to Hadleigh Castle.

 

I regularly see fixed formation container trains moving around half empty, because there are no shunters any more.

 

Yes, Mallard was pulling a test train, and yes, she did have all sorts of problems once she had cracked the speed record, but just think what changes have been brought in since then, continuos welded rail, better understanding of superelevation, and yet, because of the 'stop/go' engineering development, some very 'cobbled together' solutions to problems that the old engineers understood. Take a hard look at a modern bogie, with all sorts of dampers fitted, and the 'new' tyre profiles, which actually resemble 'worn out' profiles, all attempts to cure 'hunting' and oscillation in the bogie. Would that have anything to do with the guys that design new trains all being boys of 12, and not having the 'old chaps' in the works to tell them how it was when Mr Gresley put together articulated carriages? Just a thought.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Wriggler7

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I've been out of internet contact but am just catching up with the forums.

 

Mallard is/was a beautiful loco IMO, A4 model if I remember rightly? I saw her under steam once and travelling through the Buckinghamshire countryside, quite a sight.

 

I hope everyone is well. You probably didn't notice I wasn't here [humungous technical problems], but it's good to be back.

 

My best, HB

[Maxwell TM]

Agreed the A4 was beautiful, modelled on a Bugatti car I think I heard once. Of course we missed you

[honeybee13]

You're very kind Maxwell . And attractive, caring etc........

 

I didn't know the part about Bugatti.

 

My best, HB

Edited May 13, 2011 by honeybee13

[Wriggler7]

We missed you!

 

Mallard is one of 6 surviving A4s, I have travelled behind the Union of South Africa.

 

Mr Gresley designed much more than just locomotives, but he may well be best remembered for his conjugated valve gear for the middle cylinders on three cylinder engines.

 

Once, you could have taken his design for cylinder blocks, and had them cast up at any number of railway engineering shops. Now, you would probably have to have them made in China.

 

Not aware of the Bugatti connection, but if you put an A4 next to a modern '66', it does seem to me that we have forgotten that beauty and 'art' is an important feature of 'pleasing' people. Even an old class 37 has some sort of majestic appearance.

[honeybee13]

That's kind of you, Wriggler, thank you.

 

I can add another A4 class, the Sir Nigel Gresley which I saw on the same day as Mallard. As we're into nostalgia, it was a special trip from Marylebone to Stratford years ago and the back up loco was the Flying Scotsman. I'll probably never see all that again.

 

My best, HB

[Wriggler7]

For me, the irritation is that in the 1930s, Britain possessed the ability to build locomotives and carriages, rolling mills to make the rails, foundries that could cast the magnificent columns, some of which can still be seen holding up the canopy at Westcliff station resplendant with the 'LT&SR' roundels.

 

Now, we buy in from everywhere. Not just railway locomotives, everything. What do I drive? Skoda. What would I like to drive? Wolseley. (Or Riley, or Singer, Humber or a whole host of types.)

 

But even in the 1930s, there was writing on the wall. Whilst our Nigel was building A4s, the French, Belgians and Germans were playing with compound engines, Bugatti powered railcars, whilst the dreaded Yanks were getting their heads around cheap and cheerful, mass produced Baldwins.

 

In the late 1940s and 1950s, if a foreign country wanted a steam engine, it was more liklely to be a Baldwin than a 'North British'. If you want a cheap and powerful locomotive now, best ask the Chinese.

 

(We were even buying locos from Romania! Admittedly a British design)

[Old-CodJA]

I grew up beside one of the largest locomotive sheds in the country and like so many of us that have a 'nostalgia muscle', I love to see, photograph and paint them as often as possible, but in truth the spotless and rigidly restricted preservation 'expresses' are a beautiful, though idealised version of reality.

 

I actually think that there are few more stirring sights in steam railway operation than seeing a 'spaceship' (9F), or a pair of 'Black Fives' with a heavy parcels express, or important overnight freight train such as the Grimsby Fish, thundering into the blackness with the footplate crew working hard in a dangerous, noisy and certainly dirty workplace and yet with a pride in the job that is sadly lacking in the modern railway world.

 

These are the chaps who as a fireman, might have to clamber outside the cab onto the running plate of a battered old 'Claud' or similar piece of Victorian engineering, whilst travelling into the darkness on a freezing night in order to 'belt the donkey' with a hammer to ensure the steam injectors continue to function properly. They did these things as though it was the most natural thing in the workd to risk life & limb to prevent a train failure.

 

There are still some such people of course, the 'dyed in the wool' railmen and women, many of whom are the most recent generations of those families whose chief 'breadwinner' went to work with billy-can, oil-rag & shovel, but it's at higher management levels that the concept has gone from railways.

 

As a lad I well remember often visiting a mate and his family who lived in a crossing house, built from railway sleeper wood and 'tar-papered', with their only lighting being oil pressure lamps and heating & cooking by a big black, coal-fired range. His Mum & Dad were the third generation of the family to have been crossing keepers at that spot and the whole house shook as these great smoking monsters thundered past, just 6 feet from the lineside wall.

 

Families such as those frequently had children who went on to join the railway and made their way through the operating grades, learing all the while and many making it into senior management posts. When I first joined BR, our local Area Manager had started in the north of England as an engine oiler and before moving south had done almost every job in between. He understood what could and couldn't be done and so did his staff.

 

Apparently now all you need is a degree in performing arts or some such irrelevance to the job in hand, a thorough understanding of the latest PC thinking & buzzword technology and an ability to use a calculator!!

 

That's what annoys me about railways. (Yes, I am a dinosaur.)

Edited May 14, 2011 by Old-CodJA

[Wriggler7]

Crikey, the only Claud I have ever seen was a 5" guage model, but what a handsome and well balanced engine.

 

I learned about the technical aspects of locomotives from an old running shed fitter. That is a job that H&S would never allow now, working between the frames on an engine in steam, or swaging tubes with the fire pushed to the back of the box. But there was a pride, whether it was an old Hunslet or a huge Britt, in getting the train out on time.

 

Wheel profiles I learned from a turner who had worked at Ilford sheds. I well remember speaking to a 'railway manager' who had just been asked by a small boy during the launch of the 'new trains' the question 'what keeps them on the track?'. The manager's answer was 'that bit there', as he pointed at the flange. I asked 'not the tread conicity then?'. He admitted to me that he was a 'retail manager' and knew nothing about 'trains'.

 

I think many modern 'businesses' think too much about the short term profit, and not enough about what the business is supposed to deliver for 'Queen & Country'. Not just railways, but this is a 'railway thread'.

 

How many fare dodgers ever think, as they bunk a fare past Stratford, that once there stood one of the biggest engineering enterprises of the modern age, or Plaistow, where Joe Brown kept his buddies amused with 'skiffle', there was a facility that could build or rebuild carriages and wagons.

 

It was hard, dirty and dangerous work then, but it made Britain what it was years ago. Now, all they worry about is how to fiddle the figures to ensure a bonus.

 

Sad fact is, engineering doesn't pay nearly as well as 'law'. Still, back to the workshop, I have a 1950s Stuart Turner pump to sort out before lunch. The quality of the castings is fantastic, gunmetal for the pump, phospher bronze for the shaft housing, all made in Henley upon Thames. Or I could bin it and buy one made in Taiwan. As long as one of SRPI or Grotesques's victims does not ring to waste my time seeking support for the view that he was unfairly victimised by a rude jobsworth.

[Draconian]

I grew up beside one of the largest locomotive sheds in the country and like so many of us that have a 'nostalgia muscle', I love to see, photograph and paint them as often as possible, but in truth the spotless and rigidly restricted preservation 'expresses' are a beautiful, though idealised version of reality.

 

I actually think that there are few more stirring sights in steam railway operation than seeing a 'spaceship' (9F), or a pair of 'Black Fives' with a heavy parcels express, or important overnight freight train such as the Grimsby Fish, thundering into the blackness with the footplate crew working hard in a dangerous, noisy and certainly dirty workplace and yet with a pride in the job that is sadly lacking in the modern railway world.

 

These are the chaps who as a fireman, might have to clamber outside the cab onto the running plate of a battered old 'Claud' or similar piece of Victorian engineering, whilst travelling into the darkness on a freezing night in order to 'belt the donkey' with a hammer to ensure the steam injectors continue to function properly. They did these things as though it was the most natural thing in the workd to risk life & limb to prevent a train failure.

 

There are still some such people of course, the 'dyed in the wool' railmen and women, many of whom are the most recent generations of those families whose chief 'breadwinner' went to work with billy-can, oil-rag & shovel, but it's at higher management levels that the concept has gone from railways.

 

As a lad I well remember often visiting a mate and his family who lived in a crossing house, built from railway sleeper wood and 'tar-papered', with their only lighting being oil pressure lamps and heating & cooking by a big black, coal-fired range. His Mum & Dad were the third generation of the family to have been crossing keepers at that spot and the whole house shook as these great smoking monsters thundered past, just 6 feet from the lineside wall.

 

Families such as those frequently had children who went on to join the railway and made their way through the operating grades, learing all the while and many making it into senior management posts. When I first joined BR, our local Area Manager had started in the north of England as an engine oiler and before moving south had done almost every job in between. He understood what could and couldn't be done and so did his staff.

 

Apparently now all you need is a degree in performing arts or some such irrelevance to the job in hand, a thorough understanding of the latest PC thinking & buzzword technology and an ability to use a calculator!!

 

That's what annoys me about railways. (Yes, I am a dinosaur.)

 

Awesome story ‘House made of sleepers’ could be a Dickens novel . ‘Men risking there lives through their of sense of duty’ . Now that’s what the railways were about , dedicated people with pride and passion for their work who were doing their duty for the country and supplying a public and national service . The railways were never designed to be a major prosecution company , in those days you paid for your ticket or got off the train ! period , and of course if criminal damage took place you were prosecuted . Any losses made from “fare Dodgers” ( unknown) today are theoretical and Guestimated to justify these huge amounts of revenue made from fines . I fully understand however that you feel you are protecting the railways from petty criminals in your work but there comes a time when the situation of over zealous TOCS becomes out of control and should be brought to account.

I think with your vast knowledge and experience Old Codger a book is a very good idea with your paintings perhaps .

[honeybee13]

Let's not feed the t***l, guys.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

Awesome story ‘House made of sleepers’ could be a Dickens novel . ‘Men risking there lives through their of sense of duty’ . Now that’s what the railways were about , dedicated people with pride and passion for their work who were doing their duty for the country and supplying a public and national service . The railways were never designed to be a major prosecution company , in those days you paid for your ticket or got off the train ! period , and of course if criminal damage took place you were prosecuted . Any losses made from “fare Dodgers” ( unknown) today are theoretical and Guestimated to justify these huge amounts of revenue made from fines . I fully understand however that you feel you are protecting the railways from petty criminals in your work but there comes a time when the situation of over zealous TOCS becomes out of control and should be brought to account.

I think with your vast knowledge and experience Old Codger a book is a very good idea with your paintings perhaps .

 

I have always had an 'open mind' approach to prosecution of offenders and it keeps many good people (and no doubt some bad) in work.

 

If the offender deserve to be prosecuted, so be it. If they don't, I wouldn't.

 

I'm not going to debate that further save to say that it was the Victorian age that also saw the legislations underpinning these prosecutions put on to the statute book so it isn't really faire to describe it as a product of modern times and TOCs.

[Stigy]

Must be bored, it's taken all of three months for that reply.