Barclays offer LESS than 50% back. Advice please

[amulrooney]

Problably because they have charged me so much over the past 6 years! £1360 to be exact! They have offered £520 to be returned but from reading other posts on this forum, others have got 100% of their charges back. (yes they sent me that standard letter that everybody else has got from Barclays).

 

Can somebody please advise on what to do next. Obviously, I want the job lot back. Oh and they've even sent me a prepaid return envelope!

[Rebel UK]

Simply refer them to your previous letter stating ALL charges to be refunded or you issue a Letter Before Action. Add that they now have xx days to respond, obviously deduct the time you sent your first letter.

 

Rebel

[kaznelson]

I agree send them a Final Notice Before Action giving them 7 days then submit your claim

[amulrooney]

Well its been a couple of months since I started my claim, all done in accordance with the guidelines on this site. They have, however, entered a defence.

 

How likely is this now to go to court? I read on the MSE website that a vast majority of them don't even enter a defence.

 

The person who's defending is a "Trainee" which made me smile.

[kaznelson]

There are a few of us with hearing dates. The majority think that Barclays will pay up before a hearing but best to prepare yourself for attending a hearing.

[maestro451]

Out of interest when is the nearest hearing date set for?

[mahala]

Barclays are sending a trainee? Doesn't that show their arrogance? They give so little weight to these proceedings that they can pile it all on a trainee quite happily.

 

Not that it would make much difference if they were the most qualified solicitor int he world if the judge asks them to demonstrate how a 30 quid fee is a true reflection of the costs incurred, of course!

[BankFodder]

You probably mean that the person who drafted the defence is a trainee. You have no idea who might turn up on the day.

 

What are the scheduled dates of the hearings?

 

What does the Barclays defence say?

[amulrooney]

Hi there, sorry for the late reply.

 

I received a letter through Money Claim Online saying that they intend defending the whole claim and that they have 28 days to do so. There wasn't a date set on that particular letter.

 

I will of course keep you updated on anything else I receive.

[amulrooney]

I have received a copy of Barclays defence statement and was wondering what your thoughts were. Has anybody here gone to court and won against Barclays yet?

 

OK, so far I have followed all advice and guidance to the letter, and am quite bemused at some of the particulars of there defence. I have copied out for your pleasure word-for-word below.

1. The particulars of the claim are summary and do not provide details or particulars of the account in question and / or the precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. Accordingly, this defence is summary in nature and the Defendant reserves the right to amend this statement of case in due course. It is averred that the claimant has failed to identify and state any cause of action against the defendant to establish any legal liability for the sum claimed.

(What total twoddle. I have a letter from Barclays, signed and dated 27th March 2006, admitting that the have taken £1360.00 from me over 6 years in charges, and have offered me £520.00 back which they say was “fair”.)

2. Notwithstanding the claimant’s failure to correctly identify and particularise an account held with the defendant, it is admitted that the claimant has an account, number ******** sort code ******. However, to the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, paid referral fees or any other such fees), the defendant puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

(Again an untrue statement. Barclays (at my demand) eventually sent me through my past 6 years statements, with which I went through and found dates and reasons for the charges. These were compiled onto the spreadsheet from this site and the interest at 8% worked out. Barclays were the ones who sent me this information – therefore they readily have access to it and can identify the charges themselves (as they had already done in point 1 above).

3. The defendant is entitled to charge the claimant for unauthorised borrowings by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The claimant accepted the same when the account was opened, including (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

a. The defendant’s right to charge a paid referral fee where the defendant pays an amount (either by compulsion or election) which causes the account to become overdrawn - £30 per item (previously £25)

b. The defendants right to charge an administrative fee if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of insufficient cleared funds in the account - £35 per item (previously £30)

c. The defendant’s entitlement, if the claimant becomes overdrawn without an overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

4. The defendant’s standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowings (including where the account is overdrawn without an overdraft limit or where the claimant exceeds his authorised overdraft limit).

5. If and to the extent it is the claimant’s case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to remain within authorised overdraft limits constituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimant’s account constitutes a liquidated damages clause, the same is denied. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraft.

6. Accordingly, it is denied that the legal principles relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively, it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999, or are in breach of the unfair (contracts) terms act 1977.

7. Therefore, it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account,.

8. If and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account, this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the….. (And that’s where it ends. Where do I find the rest of this point?)

 

Also in this pack, I have been sent an Allocation Questionnaire (Small claims track) and that there is a £100 fee! More money!

 

Any help/advice on next steps greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Alan.

[squishy]

I'm afraid I can't help, but am just staggered at the amount of legal (and not so legal) jargon they use - I get the feeling that this document is intended to intimidate and quosh the recipient's spirit... Well done for getting this far..

[amulrooney]

Thats exaclty what I thought squishy. They have quite clearly lied on the first 2 points in which I have documented communications to prove.

 

I'm concerned about the missing information from the claim form though. See point 8.

[squishy]

Has this been sent to you as hard copy? Is there an address you could contact and ask that they resend entire document?

[Nightstar]

Reading through that load of nonsense, looks as if Barclays are upto their usual intimidating tricks Crack on my friend and take no prisoners:D

[mahala]

all seems to be par for the course. It's the same defence listed elsewhere from barclays, and similar to those from other banks, also posted on this site.

 

the fee is standard and can be claimed back from barclays when you win or they settle.

[Robertxc]

all seems to be par for the course. It's the same defence listed elsewhere from barclays, and similar to those from other banks, also posted on this site.

 

the fee is standard and can be claimed back from barclays when you win or they settle.

This is quite correct. This letter has been seen before on the forum, and it hasn't caused any particular problems so far.

[CrispDust]

Its the same as the defence I received apart from the first paragraph, which isn't in mine. The defence I have starts with:

"1. The Particulars of Claim do not provide details or particulars of the account (they do) in question and/or the precise charges...."

Other than that mine is pretty standard, it does end on page 2 at

"incurred charges on his account, this was.... " but then continues on the next sheet by another 2 small paragraphs.

[akwallhead]

Hi There!

 

Firstly, I'd like to say good on you for taking it this far! I'm tettering on the edge of issuing court proceedings but haven't quite taken the plunge yet.

 

From my experience (I used to issue small claims in the County Court) it sounds like a fairly standard defence. The defence wasn't drafted in response to your particular claim but is a precedent in which the relevant details are completed.

 

Also the legalistic language is merely designed to throw you off course and scare you from continuing with the claim. It's a typical David and Goliath situation but don't be put off. I now work in a solicitors and see it all the time. Most companies don't want to end up in court so they pull out all the stops to avoid getting there.

 

With regards the Allocation Questionnaire, I'm 99% certain that if you win (either by judgment or default) that you will be refunded this cost.

 

Was the defence statement sent to you by Barclays or the court? If it was sent to you by Barclays then leave it a few days and you should receive a copy from the court. If you received it from the court, then contact the court directly (either in person or on the phone), quote the case number and request the defence be sent again. They have to comply.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Good luck

[barracad]

Also in this pack, I have been sent an Allocation Questionnaire (Small claims track) and that there is a £100 fee! More money!

 

If the claim is for £1,360 then there is no Allocation fee to pay.

 

County Court Fees

[BankFodder]

You are quite right that the fact that they have already offered you 50% shows clearly that they are fully aware of the details of your claim.

However I would send them a schedule of your charges anyway, just for the avoidance of doubt. However, you should accompany it with a note pointing out you have already had a 50% offer and that clearly their clients understand fully what cases about even if they have not told their own solicitors. Make it clear to the solicitors that if they want to make it an issue then you will show the court the 50% offer because you consider that in those circumstances it would be not correct for them to rely on any without prejudice protection.

The rest of the defence is really uninspiring. Don't worry about it.

I can tell you that I am already we're of several attempts by Barclays to settle claims in full but on the bases of confidentiality and that the recipients of those offers have refused to accept the condition of confidentiality.

I am also aware of full settlements.

I don't know why there seems to be this mystical concern about Barclays. It is just urban legend.

Stick to your guns. Of course it would be excellent news if they decided to go to court but so far they don't dare.

[BankFodder]

By the way, fees for allocation questionnaires should be settled by the defendant. I have noticed that some people forget to ask for this.

[tomthumb]

i didnt know you could claim for that as well. do you know if the solicitor has not signed the defence, whether it will be thrown out?? my defence has no signature on it, just the name of their solicitor.

office of fair trading reckon that it will be thrown out due to this.

 

another point, if the above is the case, do i goto court and then bring this to the attention of the judge, when all the people that i want to question will be their?? personally i dont think the judge will be to impressed with the solicitor over this.

ive noticed that both bits are not signed. the acknowledgement and the defence, just printed names.

[amulrooney]

My copy is not signed either, but it does say on the bottom of the page "REFERENCE COPY - to be used by the court for identification purposes only".

 

I would therefore assume they have not sent me an original which I will be requesting tomorrow.

[Movingon]

No idea about the signature thing sorry; but I wanted to make sure that you're aware; you cannot show the judge anything headed "Without Prejudice" without his/her permission. This includes their admission that they know the amount of charges and their offer. This is just to beef up BF's post above - I wasn't clear/certain that you knew this from your posts.

 

Also, points 5 and 6 form their actual "Defence" - they're saying that the charges are not for breach of contract but are for a service. In which case the fees should be "Reasonable" under the Sale of Goods and Services Act. They are not - £30 for exceeding an overdraft by 35p?! And anyway - a judge would immediately spot them "cloaking the penalty".

[Alleycat]

Hi, I've just received an identikit defence from Barclays. Re the missing bit, mine has been continued onto the space for a signature, don't know if yours has? I was a bit confused when it just kind of stopped randomly, then I noticed the rest there.