Letter Of Claim for death of cat now Court Claim received.

[danyboy72]

hello,

i am being taken to the small claims courts.

i need advice on what to do please.

parts of the claim is untrue/unsubstantiated.

the person is trying to inflate the prices for fraudulent financial gain.(ie: £192 for a jcb digger to dig a grave for the cat!)

 

here is what happened:

 

i was walking my 2 dogs in a rural area and they were off the lead on a public footpath up ahead of me and apparently they chased and attacked a cat that was in the verge of a field. i did not even see a cat or the incident. i am only relaying what the cat owner said as they said they saw my dogs bite it. the cat owners said they got my dogs away from the cat. the cat ran off after the incident. my dogs have scratches on their faces due to the fight between the cat and dogs. as i came up to where my dogs where, the owner came over to me screaming abuse and her partner physically threatened me before i even had chance to say anything or apologise. 

 

i tried to call the police on my phone due to the threats and abuse but he wouldn't allow me to as he was threatening me and shouting that he was a police officer himself. when they eventually called the police, the police said there's been no crime committed and its a civil matter. at this point i knew he was not a police officer 

 

the first problem i have is that he detained me against my will and impersonated a police officer.

i had no intention of leaving and tried to apologise , i told him i would contribute toward a vet bill but not pay for the entire amount from the vets as the incident was 50/50 and i treated my dogs injuries myself. i was physically shaken and frightened because this man was overtly aggressive saying he goes to the gym and he's in training and 'pumped up' (steroid rage?)

 

i phoned the police the next day for advice about the intended violence from the man keeping me against my will and under duress, i also told the police i am willing to pay towards the vet fees as im a fair person and an animal lover. the police said i had no obligation to pay anything, i told them i have a conscience and want to contribute, they insisted i haven't done anything illegal., on the other hand they said the man can get in trouble for impersonating a policeman.

 

they only evidence i have of him impersonating a policeman is the 999 phone call at the time he made to the police, as in the background i was saying "he told me he is a policeman" as i wanted it recorded on the phone call and then he shouted to me "shut up..shut up" as he knew it was a lie and was not a policeman.

 

i have since had numerous threatening text messages with demands for various amounts of money for various different things that i did not agree to...also demands for cash for bills from two different vets. i believe the texts could constitute as harassment as they are excessive/demanding/rude/false.

 

since all of this I've had a 'letter before action'.

 

most of the accusations are untrue and the amounts of money are unsubstantiated.

 

i have attached a photo of the letter ive received and the points that are untrue are as follows:

 

1. QUOTE = "entered my property" : my dogs did not enter her property at all - they was on a public footpath and then a field.

 

2. QUOTE = "you accepted you where at fault and assured me that you would cover all of my out of pocket expenses" : this is untrue. not at any time did i say it was my fault as the incident was 50/50. i did not at any time tell her that i would cover ALL of her out of pocket expenses - I told her as it was 50/50 and the cat come out worse i would CONTRIBUTE toward a vet bil ie: £300 one off payment.

 

3. QUOTE = "attend two different vets" : why would you take your pet to 2 different vets? surely you'd just take it to your regular vets.

 

4. QUOTE = "as a result of your negligence" : i was not negligent, my dogs where under supervised exercise and ive done nothing illegal. unlike her cat which was allowed to roam the roads and countryside unsupervised.

 

5. the cat owner has not produced any receipts for the money she is trying to claim from me ie: the 2 vets bills.

 

she has not told me

how many miles she drove to the vets or produced evidence and petrol receipts (and i know the local vets and no way would the trips add up to the amount she is saying the petrol costs). 

 

has not shown any bill for the jcb digger to dig the grave for the cat! 

 

is also now claiming the initial cost of the cat for £500...there is no receipt for the cat or proof of purchase for the cat...and i didnt even see the cat! it could of even been a stray...and needless to say, i never said i would cover the cost of the cat or any other expense as the police told me i dont have to.

 

at the end of the day my dogs did not kill her cat as the cat ran off. the cat could have even been in bad health before the fight that the vets discovered when taken there .. as she mentioned the cat was ill with a hernia in a text.

 

.and the fight could have contributed to the death but not actually caused the death?  who knows.

 

the same could have happened to my dogs as they suffered injuries but i just chose to care for my dogs myself rather than taking them to the vets and then sending the bill (or an inflated bill) to the cat owner.

 

I have googled the 'practice direction on pre action conduct under the civil Procedure rules' and paragraph 13-16...but i do not understand any of it at all as its all a bit vague?

 

could anyone please advise me on what to do and what the civil procedure thing means????

 

thanks in advance,

Dan.

 

Letter of Claim.pdf

[FTMDave]

Well the first thing to understand is that you're not actually being taken to court.

 

What is happening is that you are properly, formally, being threatened with court action.

 

Courts don't like cases being started without the parties attempting to resolve things first.  Thus they have to send you a Letter of Claim before starting a court case, which you have the chance to reply to - and you should reply.

 

How you reply depends on your position.  Are you willing to pay something?  Have you offered to pay something in writing?

 

Or do you want to tell them to shove the whole claim?

 

8 hours ago, danyboy72 said:

she is also now claiming the initial cost of the cat for £500...there is no receipt for the cat or proof of purchase for the cat...and i didnt even see the cat! it could of even been a stra

This made me immediately laugh.

 

My car cost me £6000.  Er, 15 years ago.  It's probably worth 60p now.  If someone writes it off in an accident, I get 60p.  The law is quite clear on this.  I don't get to have a car as mine was 15 years ago.

 

I'm afraid it's the same for a cat.  If you were responsible - not saying you are - they could claim the value of an old, knackered cat with a hernia.  Not the original £500!!!

[BankFodder]

I think you should respond immediately with a letter.

Letter should say that you do not accept any responsibility but you would be interested to receive any evidence of injury or damage and of expenses incurred.

 

Tell them that you require pictures of the cat before and after the incident . You require a report from the vet which apparently treated the animal. If there are two vets then you require a report from each of them including invoices for any expenses incurred .

 

Also make it clear that you understand from what he was saying at the time that he was a police officer and so therefore you'd like to have his collar number.

 

Also, if any expenses were incurred in burying the cat then you would like to have a report on an invoice for that .

 

That you want this documentation simply to confirm any claims that they are making. But if it goes to the court but you will require these documents are produced before the court and are justified.

 

Draft a letter and post it here .

I suggest that you do it quickly. We will have a look before you send it off

 

Also, in your letter point out that in respect of their claim that the cat is a pedigree Bengal cat, you required to see any registration documents and evidence  of pedigree and the bill of sale which they must have received when they originally bought the animal.

[danyboy72]

 

Hello FTMdave,

thanks for your advice.

 

I am willing to contribute £300 towards their vet bill. this is the amount i have told them from the start i am willing to make as i have a conciounce even though my dogs were injured aswell but i treated them myself.

i have not put this in writing.

i have told them in a text that i will pay £300 but this was mainly to stop them from keep texting me...basically harassment texts from the cat owners mother - she has texted me well over 10 times...texts at like 6am in the morning etc

........

 

thanks for your advice bankfodder,

 

yes i will tell them i'm not accepting responsibility and will ask them for all expenses incurred out of interest.

 

i will also ask for pictures of the cat etc.

 

in regards to burying the cat...i have suspicions that she will have obtained a false invoice for it if she produces one...the reason being is that she runs a livery for retired horses and she is incahoots with a local landscaping firm just up the road from her livery that do all her landscaping/digging the graves for her dead horses with their diggers.

 

should i ask for proof that it is an actual cat buried there?

 

thanks.

[BankFodder]

Your response seems to be rather conflict oriented .

I suggest very strongly that you post the draft of your reply here so that we can have a look before we send it off.

 

[danyboy72]

yes bankfodder i will post it here - i will do it tomorrow.

what do you mean conficted oriented?..im not good with htis sort of stuff which is why i asked what to do/what to put in the letter/ask for proof the cat is actually buried as i think they are just pulling a fast one to get money for nothing

[BankFodder]

Maybe they are pulling a fast one, but there are slicker ways to deal with it .

 

Post your draft reply here 

 

[danyboy72]

sorry i think i know what you mean ...

i meant that im willing to pay £300 toward the vet bill as i intially told them at the time...

but im not taking responsibility for her out of pocket expnses ie: the jcb / the other vet bill / the £65 petrol costs which in reality was probably no more than £10

[BankFodder]

Instead of spending time, posting information here, you would be much better off spending the time drafting your proposed letter and then posting it here so we can check it and then you can move on .

 

If you aren't prepared to do that, then there is probably not much we can do to help you

 

[danyboy72]

of course im prepared to do that..as i said before - i will post it tomorrow - i didnt think there would be any harm in asking what to put in the letter?

[BankFodder]

You have already been advised as to what to increase in the letter. 

 

I, don't think we can help you any further until we see the draft 

[danyboy72]

ok ive done a quick letter pointing out the relvant parts in response to her letter...and copied and pasted the parts you and FTMDave have told me to put/ask.

 

 

I have received your letter.

Yes I have received probably too many text messages that your mother has sent and at rather inappropriate times of the day, ie: at 6am disturbing my sleep, these texts should have been sent at a more acceptable and considerate time of day, after 8am for example.

 

On the day of 28th of January my dogs were being exercised off the lead and supervised on a public path which is not illegal and they did not enter your property.

You allowed your cat to roam the countryside unsupervised and was on a verge of a public road and a field.
I did not witness the incident, I only have your partners say so that it happened. I have not seen any proof that the incident and damage took place on your cat.

 

Your partner flew off the handle and detained me under duress by showing excessive aggression, he told me he was a policeman and did not allow me to call the police to verify his identity. Your partner refused to tell me his police badge number. This was extremely distressing for myself especially as he abused and discriminated me by saying "you're not going anywhere you fat Piers Morgan - ive been to the gym and im pumped up ready for you - im a lot fitter than you so your not going anywhere".

When your partner phoned the police I raised my voice the police could hear me asking for his badge number to which your partner shouted at me "shut up, shut up" and still wouldnt tell me or the Police on the phone his badge number.

 

If your partner is indeed a police officer then his behaviour must be brought into question as I was told this by the Police myself when I rang them a couple of days after the incident.

 

I have suffered mental anguish and depression since this abuse and behaviour from your partner. I have proof of his demeanour in the transcript recording of the 999 call, it also has recorded me saying "There's a Police Officer here present but he wont tell me his badge number".

 

I did not accept I was at fault and told your partner whilst he was on the phone to the police at the time that I would 'contribute' toward the vet bill if there's any injury to the cat and it would be as much as I could afford BUT I did not say I would assure you or pay the entire vet bill amount and I certainly did not say I would pay any of your out of pocket expenses.

The offer was made to pay £300 at a later date to your mother via text and I explained the most I could afford is £300.

 

This incident is regarded as 50/50 due to my dogs sustaining cuts and scratches on their faces from your cat and I tended to my dogs wounds myself.

 

I dont accept any responsibility for the out of pocket expenses but I would be interested to receive any evidence of injury or damage and expenses incurred.

For example I require pictures of the cat before and after the incident. I would also require a report from the vet which apparently treated the animal. If there are two vets then I require a report from each of them including invoices for any expenses incurred.  

I understand from what your partner was saying at the time that he was a police officer and so therefore I'd like to have his collar number.

I would also like clear and accurate documented mileage for your petrol costs and the miles per gallon of the model of your car.

I would also like detailed proof that your cat has been buried by using a 'JCB Digger' and a receipt for said work done.

In respect of your claim that the cat is a pedigree Bengal cat, I require to see any registration documents and evidence of pedigree and the bill of sale which you must have received when you originally bought the animal but I must point out that the £500 price paid for the cat is not enforcable now, ie: as an example if I bought a £10k car 15 years ago and it got written off now..the value is significantly less..say £500 not £10,000. The law is quite clear on this.

 

So just to reiterate, I am prepared to offer you £300 towards your vet bill as originally stated, I do not state and have not stated I will pay any of your out of pocket expenses.

I do not accept any entire liability or fault as the incident was 50/50 due to all animals involved suffered injury.

 

 

p.s. i like the way the filter has changed his C word to 'peirs morgan' lol

[FTMDave]

The thing to realise is that in a certain sense you are writing for a possible judge.

 

If this gets to court a judge will be completely uninterested in the fact this woman's partner swore at you.  This will just be seen as waffle.  The court case will revolve around if this person really did have these expenses, and if so if you are liable.  No judge will think it unreasonable for you to require proof that these expenses really exist.  So how about -

 

 

Dear XXXXX,

 

thank you for your Letter Before Action of 13 March.

 

The letter contains several statements which you must know are untrue.  As you have been looking up the law, I suggest you look up the serious consequences of making false statements in Witness Statements and in court.

 

I do not accept liability.

 

However, in order to perhaps move towards settling this matter I would be interested in receiving any evidence of injury or damage and expenses incurred.

 

For example I require pictures of the cat before and after the incident. I would also require a report from the vet which apparently treated the animal. If there are two vets then I require a report from each of them including invoices for any expenses incurred. 

I would also like detailed proof of burial costs, including that your cat has been buried by using a 'JCB Digger' .

 

In respect of your claim that the cat is a pedigree Bengal cat, I require to see any registration documents and evidence of pedigree and the bill of sale which you must have received when you originally bought the animal.

 

I would also like clear and accurate documented mileage for your petrol costs and the miles per gallon of the model of your car.

 

I understand from what your partner was saying at the time that he is a police officer and so therefore I would like to have his collar number.

 

I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours,

 

XXXXX

 

 

Don't let on about her not being able to claim for £500.  If she does so, so much the better for you, it'd be a massive own goal.

 

Also block any phone numbers now and don't do anything by text, only Royal Mail.

 

Don't rush and send the above off.  BankFodder knows a hell of a lot more than me about such claims and will want to tweak the letter tomorrow.

[dx100uk]

Pers i would specifically mention in writing that said incident involving the animals happened on public property and NOT within their private garden

 

state in a last line that you repeat your offer of £300 in full and final settlement.

 

TBH the fact the cat was pedigree is totally immaterial.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please monitor this thread for further input later on today.

Don't send your letter yet

 

Quote

Dear XXX

Thank you for your letter before action.

For the avoidance of doubt, I do not agree that I have any responsibility in the matter or that I owe you any money.

However, I have great sympathy for the loss of your pet. The loss of any loved family animal is always a blow. Because of this, I have already indicated to you that I might be prepared to make some contribution to the expenses incurred by your loss. However I would not be prepared to consider this in any atmosphere of conflict.

I notice that in your letter you have listed a number of expenses which you have apparently incurred.
I would be grateful if you would let me have the documentation in respect of these including the reports of any work carried out by vets, diagnosis and conclusion.
I would also like to know why you visited two vets.
Similarly please supply me with documentation relating to the burial of your pet along with any comparator estimates which you would have obtained in order to decide the most economical way to proceed.

I notice that you incurred certain petrol costs. Please let me have receipts and also an explanation of the mileage involved.

 

I notice also that you say that the majority of your expenses have been covered by insurance. Please will you let me know what they are so that I can understand what portion of the money you are seeking from me is represented as a percentage of the total insurance payout.

I would suggest that the best thing to do is to provide me with any relevant insurance documents.

I understand that your deceased pet was a pedigree Bengal. Please supply me with details of pedigree registration, original purchase receipts, and details of the microchip registration. Also any recent veterinary reports relating to the health of the animal.
Please would you also supply photographs of the pet before it received any injuries and afterwards.

I have been led to believe from one of the texts I have received is that the animal was suffering from a hernia. I think that in the circumstances it would be reasonable to provide me with a full health report in respect of your pet. There must be one, at the very least because of the hernia problem.
Of course it is unusual for a pedigree animal of this kind of value not to be kept inside the home. Maybe you could let me know why on this occasion your pet was out of your house and even to the extent that it was in a public space where it apparently attracted the interest of my dogs. Please could you confirm that the home of the cat is the address from which you are writing and if not what is the address of its usual home.

 

I should point out now in the event that you feel reluctant to provide me with the documentation I'm seeking, that if you do decide to bring this matter to court then  I am quite certain that you will be required by the judge to produce this paperwork in open court by way of evidence.

 

Once I have received the above documentation then I will be better able to understand the position and whether further documentation is required.

In terms of the contents of your letter, I'm afraid that your recollection is completely different to mine. Apart from expressing sympathy for the situation, I have not accepted any responsibility. Also, the incident occurred on public land, not on your own private property as suggested by you.

Quite understandably you were extremely angry but at one point you did claim to me that you were a police officer. I now understand that this may not be the case. Of course, many things were said in the heat of the moment.
The police were called and have reported back to me that they have no further interest the matter because no crime has been committed.

 

Finally, I see that you propose using some Alternative Dispute Resolution service to resolve this problem. It is always a sensible idea to seek alternatives to court action if at all possible in order to reduce your liability for costs in the event that you lose your action.
Please will you tell me which ADR service you have identified and how you would propose to proceed.

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

I suggest that you sent the letter above without any changes unless you see that there is something which is not correct although I have misunderstood some part of your account.

Go and get photographs of the area where it happened.

Get a Google map and identify with crosses where you were, where the dogs were, where the cat was, with the border to their property is – as such.

Make it nice and clear.

Upload the marked Google map here in PDF format.

If you upload any more documents, please will you upload them in a proper format rather than simply photographed document in the way the the letter of claim has been presented to us and which frankly is rather scrappy.
We help you for free but part of the deal is that you provide us with sight of documents in good condition and properly scanned.

If you don't have a scanner then you can buy one for about 50 quid curries or else you can use an app called Adobe scan.

 

[theberengersniper]

@danyboy72 - You'll want to carefully read and correct some spelling issues with Bankfodder's suggested reply, don't just copy and paste it into a letter. Bankfodder uses dictation software, so these things are inevitable and a tiny price to pay for their experience in dealing with these sorts of issues. 

[BankFodder]

11 minutes ago, theberengersniper said:

@danyboy72 - You'll want to carefully read and correct some spelling issues with Bankfodder's suggested reply, don't just copy and paste it into a letter. Bankfodder uses dictation software, so these things are inevitable and a tiny price to pay for their experience in dealing with these sorts of issues. 

 

Thanks for this. I'm afraid that it is a mixture of my poor articulation and my dictation software.

I've gone through and made quite a few edits and hopefully corrected most of the typos or missing words.

[danyboy72]

thank you bankfodder and everyone else that has helped.

 

ive just the letter youve revised for me bankfodder - thanks - i forgot to mention that the cat is not kept at her home address - the car lives on a field/in stables at her mothers property as her mother runs a retired horse livery.

there are numerous cats living in the field..she mentioned another bengal and she has feral cats there aswell....i dont know if its significant but thought it may be worth mentioning.

[BankFodder]

Are you saying that the cat in question was one of a number of Cats which are living in an open field?

Is the field fenced off with anything which might prevent cats from leaving it?

 

A photo would be useful

[danyboy72]

(map/location photos uploaded)

yes thats right bankfodder - the mother of the cat owner has a field that has retired horses on it, the cat owner lets her bengals roam free in her mothers field and they sleep/live in the barn along with other feral cats that they like having around to catch the mice.

the cat owner has the brother of the dead cat living in the barn to catch mice...the field is not secure to hold cats..they roam free.

neighbouring field owners said that they have to regularly stop in the road when driving and beep their horn to get get the cats to move as they sit in the middle of the road.

 

the cat was on the side of the road on the day the incident happened and the cat owners partner (the policeman) came out of the bushes on the side of the road in the photo. these bushes/wooded part is an area of about 20-30 foot that is not her property - it is a verge in front of her property. the boundary of her property at that part after the verge is not even fenced off with a horserail (post and rail) as its so delapidated its laying in the bushes as it fell down.

Screenshot 1.pdf

 

Screenshot 2.pdf

[BankFodder]

Thank you. Standby because I may make some edits to the letter.

Any chance that you might get photographs of some of the cats out on that verge.

Any chance that you might get a neighbour to give you something in writing in relation to cars having to stop to avoid cats? (Leave that until a claim is issued, if at all)

Are you able to get a good photograph of the dilapidated fence

[BankFodder]

I have made an amendment to the proposed letter above – in red

 

If you are happy with the letter that I suggest that you get it off in the post today. Send it recorded delivery if you can.

Keep us updated as to any developments.

[danyboy72]

8 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Are you able to get a good photograph of the dilapidated fence

 ive gone on to google street view and gone further along the road to see if i can see anything...the first part nearer to the incident that isnt obscured by trees and bushes is screenshotted and uploaded...it doesnt show the delapidated part but shows the horserail fence (which is inadequate to keep cats in) and the distance detween the road and her property which is about 20-30 foot. it was on this verge that the incident took place which is not her property.

thanks bankfodder.

Screenshot 3.pdf

[BankFodder]

That's helpful but get a picture of the dilapidated fence when you can.

Send the letter off

[danyboy72]

yes no probs - the next time im out there i will photo the delipidated fence. thanks for your prompt help