Private Parking Tickets - General discussion points

[Deornorth]

I have just been reading this thread- very helpful!

 

I thought that I would add that I have just received a letter from Parking Eye for the Upminster Aldi myself. The interesting bit is that the car park has had ticket machines installed, 20p for 2 hours. Now the issue is that Parking eye are timing from driving in to the park and exiting whereas the ticket that my wife bought was within the 2 hours (sadly we don't have any more).

 

Now I called Parking Eye who told me the tickets from the machine are irrelevant- they don't mean anything and shouldn't be there!

 

So- I know that there are fines being issued if someone parks for say 10 min without a ticket- and people are being fined if they are over 2 hours.

 

Interestingly Parking Eye say that there shouldn't be any ticket machines there...

 

So- with Parking Eye, parking without a ticket for under 2 hours is fine and for whoever has installed the machines it is not!

 

Weird ?

 

Anyway- I will be refusing payment BUT thought someone might like to comment on having two contradictory dual systems in the same car park...

[Michael Browne]

So- with Parking Eye, parking without a ticket for under 2 hours is fine and for whoever has installed the machines it is not!

Look forward to Parking Eye explaining that in court!!

[Deornorth]

Hehe, I'd like to see that too!

 

Now- the letter states that "You are responsible to ensure that the terms and conditions of parking, as set down and clearly displayed in the car park..." Well- it's obviously not clear! My wife had to get the children (7, 5 and 3 months) out of the car, baby into buggy and queue for the ticket and got back, put the children back in the car and drove off approx 2 min before the ticket expired (the warden did not issue a ticket)- so she fulfilled the ticket condition but not the apparent "we are timing you as soon as you enter and leave" version!

 

I would imagine that having the two systems in the same park means that Parking Eye could not contest as my wife had fulfilled the terms of the obvious 'contract' - buying and displaying a pay and display ticket.

 

The only mildly irritating aspect is that I had the car valeted for a service and our collection of tickets (weeks old) were thrown. BUT if they have a machine and people checking for tickets then the onus should be on them to prove my wife had not bought a ticket (they actually take photos of expired / missing tickets on the windscreen!)

 

Anyhow... I do feel that this is worth taking further- after all in that car park I know one person who bought a ticket and it blew onto the chair and they were fined for it not being on the dashboard. It would seem that there are multiple ways for people to be fined in this car park and it is not right....

[speradamatic]

Hello,

 

i have been following the template letters for some time on several fines (i work for a lease company) most of which have been cancelled. However i have received this e-mail from Trethownes today. Anyone on ideas far a reply?

 

Dear Mr. xxx

Thank you for your letter 3rd September confirming your unwillingness to pay the Charge Notice. You have asked for clarification of the "citations of case and or statute law" - I suggest you contact your Solicitor who know doubt will be able to help you understand that the claim is based in contract.

Please provide us with the driver's details in order that we may transfer liability for payment.

If you are unwilling to provide these details then we must draw your attention to the following points. Our client's conditions of contract relating to parking are detailed on the signage at the site. Failure to comply with the conditions of contract constitutes a breach of contract which entitles our clients to pursue the remedies referred to in the conditions of contract. These remedies include the right to clamp defaulting vehicles.

By virtue of the failure to pay the Charge Notice the breach of contract remains.

Accordingly, we must advise you that your vehicle registration has been recorded on our client's database as an unpaid offending vehicle that has parked in breach of the conditions of contract. If your vehicle is seen at any of the sites managed by our client then it will be clamped, pursuant to the conditions of contract. In order to secure release of the clamp you will be required to pay a release fee and also any outstanding parking Charge Notices.

 

 

any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[lamma]

copy that letter to the SRA with a stiff complaint. (keep the original) No contract established with RK. No right to clamp the vehicle. mention that Trethowans are acting unlawfully and threatening unlawful acts. insist that the SRA act and keep you fully informed. send the letter to the SRA recorded/special delivery

[speradamatic]

Thanks lamma,

 

i will do that and keep you informed.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Hello,

 

i have been following the template letters for some time on several fines (i work for a lease company) most of which have been cancelled. However i have received this e-mail from Trethownes today. Anyone on ideas far a reply?

 

Dear Mr. xxx

Thank you for your letter 3rd September confirming your unwillingness to pay the Charge Notice. You have asked for clarification of the "citations of case and or statute law" - I suggest you contact your Solicitor who know doubt will be able to help you understand that the claim is based in contract.

Please provide us with the driver's details in order that we may transfer liability for payment.

If you are unwilling to provide these details then we must draw your attention to the following points. Our client's conditions of contract relating to parking are detailed on the signage at the site. Failure to comply with the conditions of contract constitutes a breach of contract which entitles our clients to pursue the remedies referred to in the conditions of contract. These remedies include the right to clamp defaulting vehicles.

By virtue of the failure to pay the Charge Notice the breach of contract remains.

Accordingly, we must advise you that your vehicle registration has been recorded on our client's database as an unpaid offending vehicle that has parked in breach of the conditions of contract. If your vehicle is seen at any of the sites managed by our client then it will be clamped, pursuant to the conditions of contract. In order to secure release of the clamp you will be required to pay a release fee and also any outstanding parking Charge Notices.

 

 

any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

I would drop the following into a template letter:

 

You say:

 

"You have asked for clarification of the "citations of case and or statute law" - I suggest you contact your Solicitor who know doubt will be able to help you understand that the claim is based in contract."

You may understand the background better if I explain that there is a huge volume of case and statute law that relates to contract. I have been unable to identify any that supports your case. It is for you to prove your case not me.

 

You say:

 

"Failure to comply with the conditions of contract constitutes a breach of contract which entitles our clients to pursue the remedies referred to in the conditions of contract. These remedies include the right to clamp defaulting vehicles."

 

If, which I do not accept, there was a breach of contract then your remedy would be against the counterparty to that contract (a person) not the vehicle (an inanimate object). Please be advised that there are criminal laws that govern clamping. If my vehicle is clamped in circumstances that I believe may have been criminal I will have no hesitation in reporting the matter to the police and elsewhere. The circumstances you describe may well be such circumstances and may also constitute conspiracy.

[lamma]

well said Bernie. Exactly why the SRA should be given that complaint.

[fed_up_and_broke]

Hi all,

 

Having read a lot about this issue, it is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) that the "fine" they issue is nothing more than an invoice.

 

I received one today and it clearly state in bold letters at the top "THIS DOCUMENT IS A PENALTY CHARGE".

 

Surely this goes against the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40(d).

 

Having never challenged a charge like this I would be grateful if anyone could confirm this.

 

Thanks

[lamma]

who is it from - sounds a hoot. if possible post up a picture of the letter - suitably washed of your personal details. check out S(7) of the 2008 Consumer Regulations. definitely breaks that in my view. could be many more - will have to see the document. it may even get all the way to S(2) of the Fraud Act 2006

[fed_up_and_broke]

I'll have to wait untill I get back home to scan the document as I am at work but I will post it here tonight.

 

It was issued by Parkforce (The UK Parking Enforcement Agency)

 

It is a joke really and the appeals proceedure on the back is possibly the best I have seen!

[lamma]

Parkforce as in "UK Parking Enforcement Agency" ? We are in luck. I am told they are BPA "Approved Operators". Will wait for letter and then suggest steps if you you want to push back a tad or two ?

[fed_up_and_broke]

They have a nice picture on the "fine" saying they are members of the BPA.

 

I will get the picture posted as soon as I can and I am willing to take this as far as it goes!

[lamma]

good - will help you.

[fed_up_and_broke]

What is the relevance of the British Parking Association in this then?

 

Are they recognised by anybody other than those trying to [problem] you out of money?

[fed_up_and_broke]

Apparently I have to make more than 5 posts in order to post a picture so this is the 5th.

[fed_up_and_broke]

Here is the picture of the "fine" as promised...

 

 

[lamma]

has the RK got a letter from them ? wait for that. do nothing else. and don't lose that piece of paper.

[fed_up_and_broke]

No letter has arrived yet but I am looking forward to seeing it on the doormat.

[lamma]

so are we ! (on here, not your doormat...)

[fed_up_and_broke]

On the subject of them being a member of the BPA, I have had a look at the BPA code of practice and found a number of things that Parkforce seem to have not done.

 

I will point out a few things that I have noticed (not all) and see if you think I should report them to the BPA.

 

30) All signs shall indicate:

A) That the land is private property;

B) That if a vehicle is parked without authorisation, or

has contravened any parking conditions (which

conditions must be prescribed clearly on the same

sign or on other signs that are displayed clearly within

or at the entry to the land), then parking

enforcement may take place at any time, or during

the prescribed hours;

C) The types of parking enforcement that may be

deployed, e.g. clamping, removal and/or Parking Ticket

issue;

D) The maximum charges or fees payable;

E) That, if a parking ticket is not paid, then vehicle

keeper details will be requested from the DVLA;

F) A telephone number (landline) and a name and

address where enquiries or complaints may be

made.

Note:

Contact addresses (referred to in sections 30f) and 36c)

xvii)) should be a full UK postal address and addresses

that include a PO Box Number only should not be used.

 

The signage does not state that the keepers details will be requested from the DVLA (although I am not sure how long the signs have been here or how long Parkforce has been a member)

There is no landline number on the sign

The address is a PO Box and not a full UK postal address.

TICKET ISSUE

36) When a vehicle is issued with a Parking Ticket, the

ticket shall be placed on the vehicle in a form that is

secure, but which does not cause damage to the

vehicle (see Appendix 3 for a sample Parking Ticket).

The Parking Ticket must:

A) Be waterproof or placed in a waterproof envelope;

B) State that it must not be removed from the vehicle

by an unauthorised person;

c) Include the following details:

i) A Parking Ticket reference number or serial

number, to allow an individual Parking Ticket

to be recognised quickly and accurately, for

dealing with payments and Disputes;

ii) The registration number of the vehicle;

iii) The vehicle’s make, model and colour (where

this information is available);

iv) The time and date when the vehicle was first

seen (if relevant for the alleged contravention);

v) The time and date of issue of the Parking

Ticket;

vi) The legislation under which the Parking Ticket

has been issued (optional);

TICKET ISSUE

36) When a vehicle is issued with a Parking Ticket, the

ticket shall be placed on the vehicle in a form that is

secure, but which does not cause damage to the

vehicle (see Appendix 3 for a sample Parking Ticket).

The Parking Ticket must:

A) Be waterproof or placed in a waterproof envelope;

B) State that it must not be removed from the vehicle

by an unauthorised person;

c) Include the following details:

i) A Parking Ticket reference number or serial

number, to allow an individual Parking Ticket

to be recognised quickly and accurately, for

dealing with payments and Disputes;

ii) The registration number of the vehicle;

iii) The vehicle’s make, model and colour (where

this information is available);

iv) The time and date when the vehicle was first

seen (if relevant for the alleged contravention);

v) The time and date of issue of the Parking

Ticket;

vi) The legislation under which the Parking Ticket

has been issued (optional);

xvii) All methods of challenging the Parking Ticket

that are available and the telephone numbers,

addresses and any internet/web site addresses

that can be used;

xviii) What will happen next if no payment or

challenge is received within the time(s) allowed

and any further charges that may accrue, e.g.

“the name and address of the registered

keeper of the vehicle will be requested from

the DVLA and a notice will be sent to the

keeper requesting payment”.

 

The ticket does not state that it should not be removed from the vehicle by unauthorised persons.

It was not secure (tucked under the wiper)

There is no detailed location on the ticket

There is no identifier of the person issuing the ticket.

This is not an exhaustive list of things that don't meet the code of practice but I will keep it short for ease of reading.

Any ideas???

[lamma]

check out DVLA ATA on google. and read the pdf

[fed_up_and_broke]

So I could report them and if they fail to enforce the Code of Practice they code lose their accreditation.

 

That would mean expelling any members that fail to comply with the code of practice.

[lamma]

that or the BPA loses its ATA status. they will chop members first I reckon. Only way is for everyone who gets non CoP complaint paperwork (that will be everyone !) to write a compliant to the BPA and to the DVLA including photocopies of the non compliant invoices and letters. that will build up the weight of evidence. the BPA can only hedge for so long if there is a stream of complaints - and each one is copied to the DVLA. The BPA has a " Compliance Officer" according to their website so that where the complaints should go. By recorded delivery and if the delivery does not get recorded then again by special delivery.

[fed_up_and_broke]

This could be very interesting.