SIP ANPR PCN - SIP Parking Limited, Peter House, Oxford St., Manchester.

[scumfrog]

I was not the driver at the time of the 'infringement' but I am the registered keeper. This is a large, open, fairly remote, piece of land that has been free for the 35 years I have used it, until perhaps April this year.

 

1 Date of the infringement  Parking Charge Issued 23/04/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] I don't know. I have been ignoring the letters and binning them. It's worked fine on a couple of occasions in the past.
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

3 Date received Don't know, as above. I only have the Legal Action Letter sent on 20.07.22
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Don't know
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? There were a couple of in and out photos IIRC
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] I have not replied.

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up no
 

7 Who is the parking company? SIP Parking Limited, Peter House, Oxford St.,  Manchester.

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Lligwy Beach, Anglesey
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

The Independent Appeals Service www.theIAS.org

SIP legal action letter 20.07.22.pdf

[FTMDave]

Thanks for filling in the sticky so quickly.

 

Don't worry, it's not a Letter of Claim.

 

What utter thickos.  "Inline with" were three words when I went to school.  And you can be prosecuted for giving them the wrong details of the driver, really?!!!

[FTMDave]

However, it's not a good idea to throw away communications when you're in legal dispute.  Tomorrow invest in a 2nd class stamp and SAR them.  Get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  Legally-speaking they have written utter tripe in this latest missive so it's a fair bet their previous letters were bilge as well.

 

The new government Code of Practice includes that companies taking over parking management of a piece of land should put up special signs for a period informing of the change so that habitual users don't get caught out.  No doubt they'll have done none of that.

 

 

[scumfrog]

So am I SAR-ing them in order to get copies of all the previous correspondence, or just to give them some work to do? And I signature it with a pen?

 

I couldn't say if they put up notices, it's a beach car park near where I live, and possibly the April visit was the first for several months. As I say "It wasn't me" driving so I don't know.

[scumfrog]

Where it says

 

"At the time the charge was incurred, a notice to driver was affixed to the vehicle".

 

I'm certain it wasn't as when I told the person driving of the charge, they said they didn't know anything about it, and I'm 100% certain that's true and they would have given me the paperwork.

[FTMDave]

Yes, a SAR is to get the previous correspondence.  I forgot to mention to stick in some I.D. with your letter otherwise the fleecers will use lack of I.D. to delay compliance.  Yes, you do need to sign it.

 

It's common practice for these charlatans to put a NTD on the windscreen, photograph it, then remove it, so the motorist is denied the discount payment period.  Disgusting but common.

 

If they are claiming this about the NTD then their PCN needed to arrive at yours 29-56 days later, not sooner, not later, otherwise they are stuffed and can't pursue the keeper.  That's why the previous correspondence is important.  And why you shouldn't have thrown it away. 

[BankFodder]

Open 

[scumfrog]

I have been meaning to post that I never got round to doing any of the above, and didn't hear from SIP again. 

However today, one full year later, I have received a Letter Before Claim!

So, the date of the parking charge is April 2022 and I have now received a Letter before Claim dated 16 months later. It's taken them a while.

I have 30 days to reply, apparently. Again.

Does the 'letter before claim' title have any particular legal meaning? I see there's some stuff about a letter of claim on here which i don't have time to read or try to understand at the moment.

There's the threat of further costs and an 8% interest charge as well.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

time for a 'snotty letter'

read a few threads here after searching snotty letter 

[Nicky Boy]

2 hours ago, scumfrog said:

Does the 'letter before claim' title have any particular legal meaning? I see there's some stuff about a letter of claim on here which i don't have time to read or try to understand at the moment.

It's to do with "pre action protocol". Before actually issuing a court claim, this letter has to be sent, giving 14 days notice of the claim.

You say that you never sent the SAR?

Well, better get on with it now. (Don't forget to enclose a copy of your C Tax bill, as mentioned before.

One more word of advice... If you're to win against the fleecers, you MUST engage with the forum. Don't ask for advice, ignore it and then disappear for weeks.

Not having the "time to read or try to understand at the moment" doesn't cut it.

So again, snotty letter and SAR... ASAP.

[lookinforinfo]

If you haven't got the Notice to driver, do you still have the next PCN-some times call the Notice to keeper  If so  could you please post it up. If you haven't got it you will get a copy with your SAR.

[FTMDave]

You're in legal dispute.  You throw away the paperwork.  You have the chance to get it back by filling in a simple A4 form and posting it - and you decide not to.

Brilliant.

Not.

But it's your case.

It's up to you, but ether you do what NB says sharpish or you'll find yourself with a court claim.  SAR done today, get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  And tomorrow a draft of a suitable snotty letter please.

[lookinforinfo]

The driver is responsible for the charge for the first 28 days from the time you receive the PCN. If it is not paid by then, if the PCN complies with the Act the liability is transferred to the keeper. As so many PCN's do not comply with the Act you would not be liable for the debt.. Had you kept the original PCN we would probably have been able to advise you not to worry since you were not liable to pay the debt. And if you didn't tell them who was driving they would n't know who to pursue.

The SAR [you will find it in the CAG library ]will force them to send all the paperwork they have on you so you should receive the Notice to Driver and Notice to keeper copies. If they don't send them within a certain time you can pursue them for not sending them and that will cost them more than they are pursuing you for.  Win win.

[scumfrog]

OK I've been lax. Ignoring these people has invariably worked in the past.

But I'm getting on with it now.

I don't have a copy of the current council tax bill to hand. I could try to dig it out, but I think it went off to the accountant.  I do have a copy of an adjustment letter dated 21.07.2022 - will that do?  I assume this is for confirming my ID so will anything else do - copy of driving license?

 

[Nicky Boy]

Heavily redacted credit card bill?

I really don't like sending sensitive stuff like driving licences to charlatans.

See what the others suggest...

[dx100uk]

adjustment letter will do 

its from the council and states your names and address.

[scumfrog]

OK. Thanks. Should there not be a paragraph saying 'I enclose a photocopy of a council tax  bill with my name and address as proof of ID'?

[dx100uk]

no

[scumfrog]

snotty letter - this kind of thing? 

Dear ********* Limited,

Limited in intelligence, I suspect.

Re: Internal claim reference xxxxxxx

Thanks for your Letter before Claim dated xx/xx/2023   I note that you mention in it that the driver of the vehicle has accrued the parking charges. Do you know who that was?  As unfortunately, it wasn’t me, and it’s so long ago I’ve forgotten who it was. Regardless, I know this ludicrous parking charge isn't payable anyway.

I also know that the government Code of Practice includes that companies taking over parking management of a piece of land should put up special signs for a period informing of the change so that habitual users don't get caught out. Can you prove that you did that? Because I didn’t see any and neither did anyone else I know that frequent that beach and they’re willing to say so.

So, see you in court. I’ll welcome the opportunity to make an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) as you have waited 16 months to send me this bullshit letter and plan to charge interest for the period that you’ve been parked on your fat arses doing nothing. Did you get a ticket for that?

Kind regards,

 

 

[dx100uk]

beach?

dx

[scumfrog]

Yes it's a car park for an out of the way beach*. Nothing else for miles except fields.

Not even a car park really, just a plot of slightly gravelly land with nothing to indicate that someone owns it or that they make any kind of effort to maintain it, because they don't. also plenty of other beaches in the area with no parking charges. Except one, but it's obvious that it's properly laid out with tarmac and signs and facilities, and an automatic gate. But not this one.

*as in a thing next to the sea with sand on it.

[Nicky Boy]

Burn!

One small point is that the government code of practice is on currently on hold,  so you might want to change that.

Also, if you don't remember who the driver was, you can't really say it wasn't you?

[FTMDave]

The forum doesn't allow swearing, so normally we wouldn't swear at them.  Personally I don't see why you shouldn't swear at them, they are utter con merchants.

Just one thing.  Did the Letter of Claim come directly from them or from some bottom-of-the-barrel solicitors like DCBL, Gladstones or BW Legal?

[scumfrog]

it's a letter before claim and it came direct from them.

I can remove the two points mentioned, but that doesn't leave me with much so I'll have to get back to the drawing board in the morning. Any other suggestions?

When and how does one send this second snotty letter? A few weeks after the SAR?

[Nicky Boy]

Straight after the letter of claim.

By all means still mention signage. Just be a bit vague to get them thinking.

Also, "fat behinds" might sound a little more refined