PCM/Gladstones Claimform - scratched 7am not PM on visitors voucher - Tachbrook SW1 V (Peabody Estate Pimlico, London).

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I received a letter from PCM for an alleged parking breach which I had no idea about.

 

Apparently my car was ticketed but I was not aware of a parking ticket being issued until receiving their letter.

 

Upon receiving their letter, believing it was wrong and that they were trying to falsely penalise me, I ignored their letter. I received another letter stating the same and and ignored that too. A friend of mine suggested that I continue to ignore them because there was nothing they can do, given that their letters were not Penalty charge notices, but were parking charge notices. 

 

However, I've now received a claim form from Northants county court. Gladstone's solicitors, are working on behalf of the parking company and are now taking the matter to court. 

 

I contacted PCM for a subject access request and asked for photos of the alleged breach and all other correspondence they have in relation to me or my vehicle, and that they should include any correspondence between themselves and any third parties. They sent me a copy of the original ticket I did not receive, copies of letters and photos which shows that there was a parking permit on the car which had expired at the time they took the photo of my car. I instantly became aware that the time had been incorrectly scratched. Instead of it saying 19:50, it was 7:50. This was a genuine mistake.

 

Now, due to the time that had passed, I cannot prove that the car was not in that area at that time. In fact, at the time the ticket was scratched, the car wasn't even in London. I could have shown an image of my car on my driveway as I have CCTV but, it only goes back to July. The incident happened in February. I cannot think of any other way to prove that the car was not in the area at the time scratched on the ticket, which would evidence that selecting 7am instead of 7pm was a genuine mistake.

 

Now, it appears I will have to pay out £265 to Gladstones.

 

The other thing is, the cover letter they sent relating to my Subject Access Request mentions a different PC number, which I have no idea about. The extract states

'It should be noted that your name whilst was initially active on 10 charges is now only active on one charge PC1*******, therefore on the remaining 9 charges we have only included the information that is relevant to yourself.' 

 

I really don't understand why there is a different PC number to the one which corresponds to all the images they have sent me.

 

Is there anyway I can challenge this as it really was a genuine mistake, or should I just pay what they are asking for?

 

I would be grateful for any help.

I really can't afford what they are asking at this time.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum.  And you certainly do not pay what the scumbags are asking for. The most they can charge is £100.

 

Well done for going ahead and sending them an SAR-could you please post up what they have sent.

 

When did you receive the Claim Form and have you replied to the Court .

 

 

Could you please complete the two questionnaires below so that we can help you get out of this.

 

 

[FTMDave]

The way court claims take place in England & Wales is that costs are included with the claim.

 

So give in now, or lose in court, you more or less pay the same.  Obvious conclusion - you might as well fight the fleecers.

 

Please fill in the stickies as LFI has asked, you have only a limited time to reply to the claim form otherwise you will lose by default.

[dx100uk]

On 28/11/2022 at 21:46, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

and that they should include any correspondence between themselves and any third parties.

 

nope that's not strictly your data, where did you get that idea that you are entitled to that from?

 

i have a nasty feeling you've been wrongly following your mates advice, you must have gotten a letter of claim too? those should never be ignored.

 

the SAR serves not real purpose sadly now, that should be done via a CPR 31:14....

however please complete this sticky AS A PRIORITY.

 

also scan up every correspondence in/out, bothsides of everything, suitably redacted to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY.

 

read our upload guide CAREFULLY

 

dx

[brassnecked]

Pleas fill in the sticky as requested, then this can be moved forward.  There is bound to be somewhere where they messed up.

[dx100uk]

you need to get this moving........

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Northampton County Court Business Centre

 

MCOL Northampton N1 ? Yes

  

Name of the Claimant : Parking Control Management (UK) Limited

 

Claimants Solicitors: Gladstones Solicitors Limited)

 

Date of issue – 11 November 2022

 

Date for AOS - 29 November 2022

 

Date to submit Defence - , 13 December

 

What is the claim for – 

1.The driver of the vehicle with registration *******(the ‘Vehicle’) parked in breach of the terms of the parking stipulated on the signage (the ‘Contract’) at Tachbrook – SW1V, on 28/02/2022 thus incurring the parking charge (the ‘PCN’).

 

2.The PCN was not paid within 28 days of issue.

 

3. The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the Vehicle.

 

4. Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £100 for the PCN, £70 contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions, together with statutory interest of £10.68 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 10.25% per annuam., continuing at £0.05 per day.

 

What is the value of the claim? £265.68

  

Amount Claimed £180

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £265.68

 

.........................................

 

1 The date of infringement? 28/02/2022
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] N 
 

If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide] I’ve attached the email I sent to the parking company requesting a subject access request. I read somewhere on one of these forums that I should email them, then read somewhere else that I should not.

 

Has there been a response? Parking company sent a cover letter which I don’t understand. They also sent pictures of the contravention.
 

Please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide] I have uploaded everything they sent, as well as a copy of the claim form.

 

If you haven't appealed yet - .........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first. Desperately hoping you can support me with this.

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Yes there was a notice to keeper which has been uploaded.

 

What date is on it? I believe they posted it out on 31/03/2022
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No. I only received photos when I did the SAR
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s That has been done.

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] – I believe it did. Please could you confirm as notice was uploaded.
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]  – No, I have not appealed as yet. I have been trying to gather information on how best to approach the situation.
 

5 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Limited
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Give answer here – Tachbrook SW1V (This is on a Peabody Estate based in Pimlico, London).

 

Hi all,

Apologies for delay in responding. I have been struggling to use the site as I am not tech savvie.

I have been up all night trying to get my head around what I think you have asked me to do, and being mindful of the time closing in, I am left feeling quite stressed.

 

Thank you, I am really trying to get this done. 

 

I really do hope so. I cannot afford to payout £265 at this time.

 

.............................

 

 

SAR Reply + Claimform.pdf

[brassnecked]

So parking without a Permit in a Residents Parking Scheme, I notice they didn't include a picture of the entrance sign to the area covered.  No

 

Now are you a Resident?

 

Or a Visitor?

 

That will guide what to respond with later on

 

These schemes are designed by the fleecer to trap residents also say they have courtesy car, as theirs is in for service etc, permit in their car, they get a PCN for the courtesy car non display.

 

Time is marching so hopefully tghe others will be along to help you get this moving today.

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Date for AOS - ( 21 November 2022

Actually 30 November - which has already passed.

 

You need to do Acknowledgement of Service now otherwise the fleecers will apply for judgement and you will lose by default

 

The instructions on how to do so are in post 21 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/432762-eps-anpr-pcn-ignored-loc-now-claimform-29-sec-stay-shoulder-of-mutton-birmingham/

 

Do this immediately, no messing about.

[brassnecked]

 do it now right now ASAP.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I believe I have done that via the website www.moneyclaim.gov.uk  website.

 

On there I acknowledged receiving the claim and asked for more time to defend it. 

 

No, the driver was a visitor not a resident. Seriously, this was a genuine mistake but because all this time has now passed, we cannot prove the car was somewhere else at the time the permit was scratched out.

 

I believe there is a sign at the beginning of the estate somewhere.

 

We don't normally pay attention to that as we know you need a permit and we always use one.

 

Its just on that day, we arrived and was in a hurry, we put the permit on the car, stayed for a short while, then went out for the evening.

 

We returned and kept the same permit as it had not yet expired.

 

We stayed overnight thinking that the permit was good until the following evening, not realising that we had scratched out 7am instead of 7pm, but it is almost impossible to prove now. It just looks like we overstayed by two hours when in reality we did not.

[FTMDave]

8 minutes ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

I believe I have done that via the website www.moneyclaim.gov.uk  website. On there I acknowledged receiving the claim and asked for more time to defend it. 

Well done! 

[honeybee13]

Phew! I was starting to worry about you. Well done with the AoS and don't forget your defence.

 

HB

 

 

[FTMDave]

So your next steps are.

 

1. Get a CPR request going to Gladdys.

 

2.  Get whoever you were visiting to look at their lease and see what is says about parking.  There is a load of case law regarding something called Supremacy of Contract which means that if this person had an agreement about parking before the fleecers came in the charlatans can't override it.

[brassnecked]

Yes the defence will be the standard 3 line defence with nothing beyond what is in the sticky you dont give them any inkling of where they might have messed up especially as Gladdys are involved.

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform

.

register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.

Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...

You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 

then log in to the MCOL Website

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

………….
 

[lookinforinfo]

The Notice to Keeper does not comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

 

This means that only the driver is responsible for the debt since the mistakes they have mad prevents them from transferring the alleged breach from the driver to the keeper. so it is important to not divulge who was driving.  After all the driver can be one of the family, a friend or anyone who already has a valid insurance policy to drive a vehicle.

 

Should it get as far as Court they cannot assume that the driver and the keeper are the same person -they have to prove it. So well  done for not appealing since that is often when the keeper errs by saying I parked the car rather than the driver parked the car as an example of how unwittingly who was driving is revealed.the parking time

 

Why does it not comply?

They have to notify the keeper who the keeper is. I cannot find it anywhere on the NTK.

 

They have to specify a parking period which they haven't done. They quoted 09.29 and the time immediately preceding that time.  It's virtually meaningless. Was it 30 seconds, two minutes? How long? One could claim from their statement that you need only to have stopped there for less than five minutes which is allowable as a free period to give motorists time to read the terms of parking and leaving if they are found o be unacceptable.

 

In addition the wording where they say they can transfer to debt to the keeper after 28  days is missing . Instead of saying "providing we have complied with all the applicable conditions it witters on about recovery action which is not the wording required by PoFA Schedule 4 S8[2][f]. In fact I challenge them where Schedule 4 allows them to utilise recovery action. It does appear to be a lie.

 

I am trying to get my head around the Permit.

I take it that once you have scratched in the time you have 24 hours[?] to stay or a different time?

 

I have noticed that the PCN was issued  at 09.29 on the 28th but the photos of the car were taken at 18.01 0n the 28th and your Permit was scratched on 27th at 07.50. 

 

Can you explain how their permit system operates please.

[brassnecked]

Whatever they say as LFI indicates they have not complied with POFA so cannot transfer liability to the keeper, and the times do look incomprehensible.

[Nicky Boy]

Guys,

It looks like the times above the photos aren't photographic timestamps.

It looks like the time when they were all recovered from the computer system to be printed for the SAR?

 

[brassnecked]

Good point Nicky Boy

[FTMDave]

Well the date is right: 28.02.2022.

 

But the time certainly isn't: they've put 18:01.  Yet the NTD has the time of 09:29!!!

 

However, if you look closed at the top bit of the photos, they are timestamped as either 09:28 or 09:29.

 

I'm in the same boat as LFI, I can't get my head around the permit system, can you please explain?

[Nicky Boy]

Guys,

How specific does the parking location need to be?

Tachbrook - SW1V is extremely vague.

 

SW1V is a large area.

There is a Tachbrook Street, but that itself covers around 15 postcodes...

[dx100uk]

it is also worthy to note they have your email address

 

you need to kill that ASAP now, by sending ONE further email to them stating email is NOT to be used for any further comms regarding our mutual claim., else they will be sending stuff i min before a court deadline removing your chance to counter them.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

 

 

Thank you all for your help so far. 

Please can you clarify what CPR means.

Sorry, I am super green with all this.

 

Also, will I have time to send anything off to Gladstones?

I don't believe I have that much time left to submit my defence.

 

Sorry, I don't know how to use the site very well. When I click on the + sign to enter a message, a quote box shows up as well. 

 

I think I'm getting the hang of it now.

 

Unfortunately, the tenant has just left the country and won't be back for months. I don't think I can look to her for help. She's been living there for years and probably doesn't even know where her tenancy agreement is...knowing her.