PCM/Gladstones Claimform - scratched 7am not PM on visitors voucher - Tachbrook SW1 V (Peabody Estate Pimlico, London).

[honeybee13]

Don't hit +. Scroll down the screen until after the most recent post and type in the blank box.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

just type in the box no need to hit quote or anything

 

you need to get that CPR moving.

you dont need a reply to file your defence

 

it will be the std generic one further down in the court Q&A you filled out telling us about the claim.

 

dx

 

 

On 01/12/2022 at 12:42, dx100uk said:

 

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim

type your name ONLY

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Without further quoting information already posted: -

 

1. @ Lookinforinfo - Can I state what you have posted in my defence? If not, when would I rely on that information to show\state that PCM ticket does not comply?

 

2.a @Nicky Boy - The SAR was only requested about two weeks ago. I don't know why they have 28/2/22 @ 18:01 printed on their photo evidence. I suspect that might have been when the photos was processed into their systems that day. Can't think of any other reason.

 

b. That Tachbrook SW1V address is really vague. I believe it refers to Tachbrook Street. The person visited that day lives at Malcolmson House, Aylesford Street, SW1V 3RR. You would drive into her estate via Tachbrook Street - according to Google maps. 

3. @FTMDave - My understanding is that their permits last for 24 hours starting from the time you scratch on it.

 

4. @dx100uk- I have emailed PCM again and advised that they are not to use the email address for any further correspondence. Should then need to communicate with me going forward they should do so through my home postal address. 

 

@brassnecked- Hi, We were visiting the tenant on that estate.

 

[brassnecked]

Ok visitors then.  Would be good to see what the entrance sign to the estate, or restricted area says.

[Nicky Boy]

Brassnecked,

 

There's a poor copy of a sign on page 4 of the pdf upload in post 7.

 

Looking at Google Street, it's apparently not an entrance sign...

 

Google Maps

WWW.GOOGLE.CO.UK

---

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

 

And the "entrance sign" is not facing the driver as they enter.

 

I'v also had a look at Westminster planning portal and there doesn't appear to be any plannimg applications for the signage.

 

It should be fairly recent as the signage was different in November 2020 in Street View.

[FTMDave]

We have a standard generic defence.  Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/  and scroll down to  Q2) How should I defend?  The defence is there.  Your deadline is 14 December, but best to file it a couple of days early just in case of site problems.

 

Your detailed evidence to smash the fleecers will come later, at WS stage.

 

17 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Unfortunately, the tenant has just left the country and won't be back for months. I don't think I can look to her for help. She's been living there for years and probably doesn't even know where her tenancy agreement is...knowing her.

But this evidence is vital.  It's your ace.  Possibly the difference between winning and losing.  Surely she can get on to whoever she has the agreement with, by mail, and request a copy.

Edited December 5, 2022 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[FTMDave]

When you have time read through these threads.  You will see why the argument of Supremacy of Contract is so important.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/link-parking-lose-in-wrexham-flat-owner.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/05/ukpc-lose-residential-case-will-vicim.html?m=0

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/07/ukpc-lose-residential-case-tenant-can.html

[brassnecked]

Yes not an entrance sign in that pack, its the one on a fence inside, would be good to see the entrance wording  and its not in plain view to a driver entering either as you say Nicky Boy.

Some of these fleecer's even expect a delivery courier to display a permit when they deliver to these sort of places, the likes of DPD and DHL get rather annoyed when PCN's like that arrive at office.

[lookinforinfo]

Disgruntled your defence should be fairly generic -there are so many on different threads.  The non compliance of the PCN should be kept for your Witness Statement.

 

I  probably didn't make my points clearly enough having read them again earlier today. So here is what Schedule 4 S8 [2][f]  says-

 

(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—

 

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and

 

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

 

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

Which is not how PCM have worded it and their should be almost identical to the words in the Act.

 

For a start it doesn't  include the words inside the brackets which it should. And they haven't observed the period of times correctly either.

 

And in addition they include a lie that PoFA  allows them to add recovery charges when a government minister has described them as a ripoff

and most Judges describe them as attempting double recovery .

 

So it is important that you do not reveal who was driving since only the driver is liable and the keeper cannot be pursued.

 

That means when writing to PCM you must take care not to say "I parked ... I didn't see..."" etc. You should always say "the driver parked... the driver didn't see..." so there can be no inference on who was driving.

 

The reason being that anyone with a valid insurance policy can drive your car as well as family and friends and PCM will have to prove who was driving.

 

Courts do not accept the premise made by the parking crooks that the keeper is also the driver since on many occasions they are not the same person.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Hi Nickyboy,

 

Should I be asking the claimant's for a copy of their permission to put up the sign? There are a few of them around, surely they would have permission?

 

Should I also ask them to prove that they have permission to operate as a parking enforcement contractor from the land owner?

 

Also, their cover letter which arrived with the SAR docs makes no sense to me. It refers to another PNC which I have not idea about. If you try to view it online it refers to there being an error. 

 

Sorry, I have not been able to look at this before now due to so much going on at work and at home, and I am running out of time. I would appreciate your response.

[dx100uk]

no you dont ask them about planning.

 

you use that in your WS later.

 

your defence is due by 4pm tuesday 

 

go here

 

scroll down to 2, defence.

 

that is what you use.

 

dx

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Thanks for the speedy reply dx100uk

 

After submitting the defence, do i get more time to sort out the evidence and witness statement or do they all have to be submitted together by Tuesday 4pm?

[Nicky Boy]

If you read post 31 by FTMDave, he's pointed to a generic defence you can submit.

All the detailed information comes later in your witness statement and they must support their claim with the evidence you've asked about... and more.

Don't tip your hand to the fleecers exactly what your full arguments at this point... generic defence only.

[Nicky Boy]

Beaten by dx. Story of my life...

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Thanks Nicky Boy, I understand.

[Nicky Boy]

And, no you'll have ample time to write your witness statement later. You should really read some other threads so you know the process and what happens next. Seriously, read some other threads.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I've been reading all night. Not slept at all trying to get this done before work on Monday.

So much info but i don't understand a lot of it. I'm a total novice here.

 

Until you just said, i did't even realise the posts were numbered. 

[FTMDave]

What you have to do now is very simple and will take no time at all.

 

Just file the standard, generic defence.

 

I would do it on Monday just to be on the safe side.

 

You'll then have months to gather evidence and produce a Witness Statement to blast the fleecers' case out of the water.

[Nicky Boy]

Just a quick thought guys.  Would it be worth putting up a short sticky with basic sequence / time line for the court / legal process?

Should reduce needing to explain it all the time. 

(Probably be of help to me as well!)

[lookinforinfo]

Yes it would  be of help to some people. In addition the importance of not using "I" instead of "the driver" when appealing though often new members have often appealed before they find us.

[FTMDave]

Have a read of this one thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

 

In it all the legal stages all the way to a court case are mentioned. 

 

That way you'll get up to speed and realise what will happen next.

[FTMDave]

40 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

Beaten by dx. Story of my life...

Join the club Nicky Boy

[brassnecked]

He's quicker than Speedy Gonzales is DX, but seriously all that is required at this stage is the standard defence, it doesn't give them any idea what will be in the WS giving more at this stage gives them wriggle room to concoct stuff to counter any specifics you include.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Thanks guys, I'm gonna crack on with that to send tomorrow/Monday.

[FTMDave]

 

When that's done come back and we can calmly move on to the next stage.

 

If you try to file the defence tomorrow, don't be suprised if you find work being done on MCOL.  If so, no hassle, it can be done on Monday.