Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter - they have put it the correct way on the agreement. The TAP does rise by the fee amount. but what I am concerned about is the fact they have added the fee to the total amount of credit and then calculated the interest charge:

If I put £13740 in loan calculator at 30.45% I get £26239.07 not the £26689.47 that is on agreement for interest charge.

 

If I put £13975 (total amount of credit + acceptance fee) in I get £26687.85 for interest charge which is close to interest charge on agreement and within a penny of monthly payment.

 

However onto this £26687.85 it would appear they add the £235 again to get total charge for credit = £26924.47????

 

Now I am not sure if they are allowed to work it out like this ???? the agreement on the surface looks ok but when you work out figures it does not make sense - I am so sure I have just confused everyone myself included

 

 

Hi

 

It may be that somewhere within your tand cs it says that the rate of interes shown will include the fee within the total charge price.since it does not have an impact on any of the other figures it is irrellavant and that is why the method of calculation is not coverred by legislation.

It is the APR that is the key issue and on it depends the make up of the tcc and the tc.

 

Regasrds

Peter

[Peterbard]

 

err i think i'v done it, sorry to just land this in, I did ask last night, but taken all day to get this far, hope its ok. Hope someone can take a look, i dont understand any of it.

 

Thanks

 

Hi

 

Yet another variation

 

Unfortunately not alot wrong with it as far as the act goes.

 

The optional policies form a sepperate agreement really that should have had a sepperate signature but i do not think the court would fail to enforce.

 

THe APR on both sides check out within tollerences.and the fees are in the correct places

 

Rergards

Peter

[Notsosure]

Hi

 

Yet another variation

 

Unfortunately not alot wrong with it as far as the act goes.

 

The optional policies form a sepperate agreement really that should have had a sepperate signature but i do not think the court would fail to enforce.

 

THe APR on both sides check out within tollerences.and the fees are in the correct places

 

Rergards

Peter

 

Thanks very much for looking and your opinion Peter

[JonCris]

For reasons I can't go into here could everyone making SAR requests be a little circumspect. In other words try make your SAR as general as possible to avoid tipping Welcome off as to your intentions.

 

Also the more general it is the more 'unintentional' info you may receive;)

[prudent]

Hi peter, if you could, i wonder if you can confirm if interest is charged on my acceptance fee or not.... The statement of price says it is. The agreement makes it look otherwise. Welcome replied to my letter saying it isn't.

Not good at APR calculation, but tried a few online calculators and none d wiser... due to diff answers

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...entofprice.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...1/contract.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comeReply1.jpg

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/w...comereply2.jpg

 

The monthly rate of 3.75 (annual 55.55%) is what is actually used to calc interest on my statement and it seems interest is actually calculated based on loan amount +fee, not just TC. There also seems to be a caluse on the agreement saying, they will be charging interest on daily balance of total amount of credit (cash advance +acceptance fee).... so confused....

Did they charge interest? and if they did, can they do this because of that clause?

Edited March 22, 2009 by prudent

[Millymo]

Thanks again for looking Peter - It was worth a shot to try and get rid of them

[biddy65]

has anybody else signed a new agreement and not received a copy of it from welcome

[manskin08]

I was contacted many times over3 weeks by the salesman from the funding corp,finally he picked me up to take me to the showroom, after loads and loads of phone calls and visits to his office, he took me to the yards where the cars were stored, none of the cars had prices on them ? i picked what he said i could afford, the finance was sorted out and i had to sign about 18 sheets of paper, far to many to even try to attempt to read,, i finally left with the car and salesman following in his car to geta copy of my working tax credits agreement,

when i started to get the paperwork through i noticed a 2 year service contract and a GAP insurance, i questioned both of these with the company and finally i insisted that they were removed. i also lodged a complaintwith customerservices about the way i had been bullied and forced in to signing the forms, they just said you should not of signed them then,

i have tried my best to keep up with the payments, but i am finding paying £53 per week from my low wage a very hard thing to do,

today i wrote to trading standards to inform them of what was going on,

like others on here i have had to change my mobile number because of threats and constant texts from the funding corp, its like a nightmare that wont go away, my land line is the same, usually messages to phone them, usually for no real reason,

I really want to tell them to pick up the car and take it back and forget it, but i know they wont do this, if i finish the payments it will of cost me £11,500.03 for a car worth only £3000 a complete rip off

[manskin08]

has anybody else signed a new agreement and not received a copy of it from welcome

Since i made the funding corp remove the "GAP" insurance and the car breakdown policy, the payments have gone down, but i have not had a new agreement of my payments and schedual,

[manskin08]

Are you passed the cooling off period???

call me stupid, but i didnt know there wasa cooling off period ? how long is the period ?

[postggj]

did you sign a modified agreement manskin

after they took off the insurance products

 

did you sign the agreement on trade prem

was the agreement hire purchess

conditional sale

was it secured by a bill of sale

 

so many questions but need to know

[manskin08]

did you sign a modified agreement manskin

after they took off the insurance products

 

did you sign the agreement on trade prem

was the agreement hire purchess

conditional sale

was it secured by a bill of sale

 

so many questions but need to know

 

no i didnt sign any further documents after removal of insurance and gap,

original document was signed on the companys garage/showroom, there was no bill of sale, just a recipte for my deposit

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter, if you are still about and have time, could you have a look over my agreement, thanks. I have signed it on a 2nd page

 

 

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/bandape/1STPAGEOFLOAN.jpg

 

Hi Is the draft letter for welcome

I did hesitate about putting it on a open forum but then i thought why not, not a lot they can do about it and someoned else might be able to use bits of it.If welcome are looking they are well advised not to challenge this one as there is a sting in the tail the last bit, More later

 

Dear Welcome

 

Please find attached a copy of my agreement dated **************** .

On inspection I note that the agreement above is seriously flawed and is in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

To be specific section 61 of the act states

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed

terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the

prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the

creditor or owner

Section 65 of the act states :

1) An improperly -executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer

on an order of the court only.

Section 127(3) of the act states

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

The prescribed terms are listed in schedule 6 of the statutory instrument

agreement regulation 1954/1553

For this type of fixed sum unrestricted use credit agreement these are ,the total credit and the repayment details as specified in schedule 10 of the same regulations.

There is no figure for the total credit on the agreement.

Just to be clear I will not accept that the figure quoted as the Total Loan is a figure for the total credit as it includes items that should be contained within the total charge for credit.

Section 9 of the Act precludes any such items being part of the total credit figure.

In addition the APR quoted would then be incorrect.

The agreement is as you see improperly executed and totally unenforceable under the act.

There is much in legislation and common law to support this fact, all of which I am familiar with.

The agreement has long since repaid the original sum borrowed and I now see no reason why I should continue to make repayments on an agreement that was not representative of the terms that it delivered.

I am now therefore stopping any further payments.

Please note that any further actions taken by you to recover any perceived debt will not be tolerated.

You are also to be advised that security, in the form of a chrge on property was used on this agreement and that this hereby nullified as per section 113(3)c and section 106 and section 65.

Yours

Edited March 22, 2009 by Dodgeball
converting to english

[manskin08]

call us what you like... sub prime, non standard... this may be your first problem we are all individuals with certain needs. most of your borrowers are duped into taking PPI, no PPi no loan.... justify this.... I really hope unfortunately for you enough complaints lead to a fine for your company , which leads to administration... I will be speaking to a team of solicitors in the near future which will hopefully enable good honest genuine people to clean up credit files and claim compensation from companies such as yours that use defaults like weapons to extort even more money out of consumers. people are becoming more and more aware of their rights and the credit crunch is basically greedy profiteers gambling with others money knowing if they make it big they will share the dividends if they dont ah well the government will bale them out with money which could be used better.... rbs asking shareholders for money is the start of something which will change the banking industry for ever.... bit late but hey ho!!!

If i where you I would consider alternative employment as the industry you are in will slowly collapse.... I do not and will never need to justify my existence. unlike you using the forum to pick up tips and try and make out how good you are.... I am convinced any members saying welcome are good company all work in your office..... ????? just my opinion!!!

in ref to the petition Number10.gov.uk i have set up a petition and its awaiting aproval, so please look and sign if you agree

[082stewie]

Nice pieces of information flowing in from different agreements.

 

Hi Peter,

 

Did you get a chance to check the mail I sent you with the agreement with the Statement of price?

 

Thanks

Stewie

 

Ps: Mommy inlaw was very chuft with the flowers! £15 for a crappy bunch of flowers:mad:

[danukindebt]

Just emailed The Sun newspaper with this:

 

"Royal bank of Scotland is now goverment owned.

Royal bank of Scotland owns major shares in Cattles/welcome finance

Cattles/Welcome APR's average 60%, this is an outrage

The goverment is basically dealing loans at 60%

Please print a story"

Lets attract some attention guys heres the email

talkback@the-sun.co.uk

[andie_303]

i believe andie has done a dynamite one

 

give him a bell when he comes on line

 

shella

 

follow the money

 

that is the premium you paid welcome

did welcome send to direct group, norwich union, or themselves

 

demand computer screen shots of money transfers

 

ive said to much now

 

FOLLOW THE MONEY (HINT)

 

I have indeed got a good one - specially modified for exactly what you need - EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT!!

 

And Postggj - you've been conversing with me long enough and you still think I'm a BOY

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me, including correspondence to the underwriter of any insurance policies and details of the relevant Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) payable on any single premium policies. Please ensure this includes how much tax was payable, who payment was made to and the date of this payment.

 

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company.

 

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention.

 

4. True copies of any notice that you have sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

11. Specific details of any payments received from or paid to any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of payments and what each payment relates to and on what date the payments were made and by whom.

12. Copies of computer screen shots of all payments made and received with regards to this account by either your or another agency showing these transfers being made.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

[postggj]

no offence andie

 

its ust i know who puts on the trousers in your house

 

no messing

 

like i said before hell hath no fury

[postggj]

manskin

 

send off a cca request to the finance company asap

i would also include an sar as well

 

dont sign, print your name and send by recorded delievery

[andie_303]

no offence andie

 

its ust i know who puts on the trousers in your house

 

no messing

 

like i said before hell hath no fury

 

Yep you're right hell hath no fury like a woman told not to be a stupid little girl by Welcome Compliance!!

[Prudence]

When you get a mo Post, just a few hints on what to do next pretty please! Prudence

[Dipply75]

Hi

 

It may be that somewhere within your tand cs it says that the rate of interes shown will include the fee within the total charge price.since it does not have an impact on any of the other figures it is irrellavant and that is why the method of calculation is not coverred by legislation.

It is the APR that is the key issue and on it depends the make up of the tcc and the tc.

 

Regasrds

Peter

 

Hi Peter, Thankyou for all the work you are doing here, it is greatly needed and appreciated.

 

There is so much about this acceptance fee thing, and I apologise if you are sick of hearing about it!

 

What I have found is on the agreement, the TCC is listed as the interest charge and in a seperate box - the acceptance fee.

 

The Total amount of credit is what you borrowed (cash, insurances etc). OK, looks fine as you say.

 

But the statements, the statement of price etc show the acceptance fee being added to that TAC for the interest to be calculated. So I checked the T&C's as you suggested and it does just state "We will open a loan account in your name and debit it with the 'Total Advance'.......the in the acceptance fee T&C is states: "The acceptance fee will be charged by you by being included in the Total Advance".

 

I gues what is confusing me is, if they have done this right and its ok to charge the interest on that fee, why keep denying it to everyone?

 

If you could please Peter, woud you look over my OH's agreement also? I don't see a total amount payable either

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn122/Dipply75/Picture.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn122/Dipply75/WelcomeLoan2blanked.jpg

 

Thanks again ;-)

[postggj]

dipply

 

thats the first time ive seen this agreement

its crap, rubbish, welcome can go and whistle

 

there is no total ammount payable on the loan

 

thats a perscribed term that a court cant enforce

 

get peter to give it the once over but ime 99.999% sure

 

 

GAME OVER

[postggj]

I Take It This Is An Early Welcome Agreement

[andie_303]

Hi Peter, Thankyou for all the work you are doing here, it is greatly needed and appreciated.

 

There is so much about this acceptance fee thing, and I apologise if you are sick of hearing about it!

 

What I have found is on the agreement, the TCC is listed as the interest charge and in a seperate box - the acceptance fee.

 

The Total amount of credit is what you borrowed (cash, insurances etc). OK, looks fine as you say.

 

But the statements, the statement of price etc show the acceptance fee being added to that TAC for the interest to be calculated. So I checked the T&C's as you suggested and it does just state "We will open a loan account in your name and debit it with the 'Total Advance'.......the in the acceptance fee T&C is states: "The acceptance fee will be charged by you by being included in the Total Advance".

 

I gues what is confusing me is, if they have done this right and its ok to charge the interest on that fee, why keep denying it to everyone?

 

If you could please Peter, woud you look over my OH's agreement also? I don't see a total amount payable either

 

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn122/Dipply75/Picture.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn122/Dipply75/WelcomeLoan2blanked.jpg

 

Thanks again ;-)

 

 

Now being a complete layman thicko total advance is surely just like Total amount - except they have made it look perfectly legit on their agreement - seperating it out and looking like they have done nothing wrong UNTIL you get the statement of price - and you only get the statement if you have SAR'd them or are going through court action i.e. when you already think they have done something wrong. If there was nothing wrong and the is legit why not give a statement of price with all the paperwork they give when you sign?#

 

Except in my case when I was given sod all!!