Packlink/TNT (now FedEx) didn’t deliver. AirTag inside disproving the fake tracking statuses

[mutato-nomine]

Hello guys! First of all, thank you for this forum and for the help you are providing.  I

 

have been reading many of the threads with similar issues, but I am still not sure how to proceed. 

 

 Please apologize my English… I hope I can explain well my case and you can help me.

 

Here we go…

On the 25 of October I send a large parcel (32 KG) from Spain to UK, containing my personal computer (iMac 2021) where I keep all my working files and other important information, and personal stuff 

 

in total value of 3000 EUR through Packlink using TNT.  

I paid 135.56 EUR shipping cost for 3 days delivery + 60 EUR insurance for 1500 EUR in case of lost or damage. Declared value on customs declaration / invoice for non commercial was 1500 EUR. 

 

After 20 days being held hostage in different depots, my parcel was out for delivery.

Later that day, the TNT tracking was stating: RECEIVER REFUSED DELIVERY,

which is a total lie as they never contact the receiver (my mom), and Packlink tracking was stating: DESTROYED/DAMAGED.

 

Complaining and asking about the meaning of the same parcel with different tracking statements, TNT responded that Dartford hub re-called the parcel for customs clearance and didn’t had a scanning code for that…no mention about destroyed/damaged stats…Shortly after, they return it to origin without given reason. It was a month ago.

 

Since then my package was for most of the time kept in Dartford hub, with daily false tracking updates, like in transit… visiting different parts of Europe.

 

I know for sure that the updates are false, as I have an AirTag (tracking device) in the parcel and I can see that the parcel never left Dartford.

 

I have been contacting almost daily TNT/FedEx and Packlink (mail, telephone, chat) only to read their automatic written apologies. I have record of all the communication and screenshots of the parcel location, which can prove the falsehood of their tracking updates.

 

This situation is causing me big financial lost as it stops me from working and enormous  stress.

 

Needless to say how mentally tortured I am from this situation, I am also unsure what I can do to get some solution and justice. 

 

I cannot fill claim, as my parcel is not marked as LOST. 

 

This forum and the expert advice is my last hope. 

Any advice is appreciated!

 

Thank you in advance for your help!

Jana

[BankFodder]

This is a bit more complicated than the usual courier problem because your contract in Spain and so it is a Spanish contract and not subject to UK law or UK enforcement without enormous difficulty .

 

This needs a bit of thinking about.

 

Can you tell me how long the power source in the tracker is likely to last?

 

 

 

Also, your post is rather vague as to who is actually holding the parcel now .

 

 

Is it FedEx or is it TNT? Can you tell us about the mechanism that operates here?

 

 

[BankFodder]

I'm a bit surprised that you've come to this forum for help on something that is clearly rather urgent, and although we have responded very quickly in the first instance, you haven't come back to us .

 

If you want to have some kind of chance or doing something here then you will have to take this seriously enough to respond quickly to our questions and our advice.

 

This means that you will have to engage with this thread in a meaningful way

 

 

[dx100uk]

are tnt aware there is a tracker inplanted? (good move!)

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

I'm also curious to know why you underinsured it. This could seriously prejudice your position.

What was the price difference between an insurance cover for the full value and for the value for which you paid?

It's not that the insurance is necessary or enforceable, but it creates in the courier and expectation of the risk they are taking in contracting with you

[mutato-nomine]

Hello BankFodder,

thank you for the fast response and apologies for the delayed replay. 
 

I used Packlink (uk) for this service, although the parcel was collected in Spain. 
 

The tracker has a new battery, and ahould last an year.

 

I selected the TNT service, which is now FedEx, so Fedex is handling all packages. It is very confusing, because when I complain to FedEx, they pass the buck to TNT, they on the other side say I should complain to Packlink. Packlink always respond that they raise the case and wait for update from TNT. Its a devil‘s circle.

 

The parcel is insured for 1500EUR because I didn't wanted to pay so much money for insurance, with which I don't agree.

 

Why should I pay for insurance on first place? For full insurance I should have paid double.. approx. 120 EUR.

 

Apologies again, I was not at home at the time you respond.

Please do understand, that I am not all the time on the computer.

 

I do take it seriously and have no intention loosing anyones time. 

 

@dx100uk Yes, they are aware of the tracking device.

 

he day it was out for delivery and I got the tracking status mentioned above, I sent my mom to FedEx depot in the area to collect the parcel, knowing it was there.

 

The depot clerk lied to her that the package is not there, and my mom who is the receiver, told him that there is tracking device inside, which shows the location.  

 

The parcel is insured for 1500EUR because I didn't wanted to pay so much money for insurance, with which I don't agree.

 

Why should I pay for insurance on first place?

 

For full insurance I should have paid double.. approx. 120 EUR.

[dx100uk]

are YOU now back in the UK?

 

or when will you be?

 

your claim will IMHO be against FEDEX UK. 

you can't launch a court claim in the UK against Packlink, they are out of UK jurisdiction.

 

 

[mutato-nomine]

I am in UK now. As I said, I have been complaining to FedEx and TNT, and I get this response: 

 

Quote

For further assistance with this situation, I do need to advise you to contact Packlink directly.

This is because your Contract of Carriage lies with them, rather than FedEx / TNT, and Packlink request that we refer their customers back to them with any service issues they may have.

 

Packlink is telling me that is pending resolution by TNT and have no updates from them.

I will be launching court claim against Packlink in Spain, but the whole problem started here in UK. 

 

I am really stuck and dont know what to do. I cannot fill claim, because the parcel is not lost…

[dx100uk]

stop getting fed down rabbit holes. packlink are in spain, you are in the UK. no Uk jurisdiction.

 

your letter of claim (see evri threads for examples - use our search top right of red banner - evri) will be the same as those against evri.

 

you are in the UK now.

you can launch a court claim against fedex UK.

but LOC 1st.

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

It seems to me that there is some urgency here because from what I gather, the laptop contains data which is important to you personally and also to your work. Is this correct?

That means that you really need the laptop back and wouldn't be satisfied simply with a payment of money – is that correct?

Please can you tell us where the contract was made. Were you in Spain at the time? And did you make the contract in Spain?

[mutato-nomine]

Hello, yes I  urgently need the computer. Its a desktop computer iMac ( If it was a laptop, I would have taken it with me.)

That is also correct that I wont be satisfied with compensation,  because it wont replace the lost data. What most scares me, is that I dont know the state of the package. It was once marked as: damaged/destroyed, and maybe those bandits wanted to steal it, but when my mom told them that there is a tracking device, they got scared. 

I contracted Packlink while I was in Spain, through the UK site. Whenever I can, I try to avoid spaniards, because I know how terrible they are with customers. My package is not even trackable on Packlink.es, but com/uk, so I guess my contract is not with Spain.

 

Also, as I mention before, I have 2 tracking numbers. One from Packlink, and one from TNT/FedEx. The last Packlink update was on the 22.11.22 return to origin. TNT generated new tracking for the return on the 21.11. which get crazy and false updates almost daily. I can do claim, only if the package is lost or damage and this is where I am stuck. 

[BankFodder]

Okay. That is very helpful that it is probably a UK contract.

The laws are broadly the same all through Europe but enforcement in Britain is probably one of the best in the world – particularly because we have a very accessible County Court system.

It's a shame that you haven't responded to this problem much earlier. It's entirely possible indeed probable – that by now the computer has been removed from the package. Where is the tracker? Is it actually concealed in the computer?

We can help you begin an action to try and get the package back but of course if the computer has already been stolen then you won't get it. The only problem is that bringing an action to retrieve property which has been unlawfully detained is not straightforward and also if you lose then you are likely to have to pay the costs or some limited costs of the other side.
If you are simply claiming cash, then it would be very straightforward and if you lost – which is unlikely – you would suffer only minimal costs. However a big problem here is that you have under declared the value.
Frankly I don't really understand why – other than you thought that maybe it was an opportunity to pay less customs duties or VAT if any were going to be assessed. I'm not making any criticism of you on this. Lots of people do it but that the end of the day it is potentially fraudulent and if this goes to court then it may well be that the other side will try to point this out to the judge and if the judge accepts this, they may decline to deal with your case at all.

An under valuation is all very well – until the parcel gets lost. That's when you start to realise that you have shot yourself in the foot – which is exactly what you have done.

If the reason for your undervaluation really was simply to save some of the insurance premium then I don't really think you've calculated it very well. You seem to think that it was good value to pay £60 to insure 1500, but not good value to pay 120 (double the cost) for a value of £3000 – (double the value).
By my calculation, the insurance rate is exactly the same and I don't understand what you are trying to gain.
The problem here is not whether you are insured or not. In fact insurance is unenforceable and not necessary. The problem here is that you have under declared the value and so even though you say that your parcel was worth £3000, it is likely that the maximum you could claim if you are claiming the money, would be £1500.
If part of your parcel is retrieved – let's say half of it, then probably the maximum money you could recover it would be only £750 – half of the declared value.

Frankly it was a bad error of judgement to under declare the value.

If you want to try and bring action to recover the parcel then we can help you but it would be what is called a part eight application and this is rather more complicated than the ordinary small claim.
If you are prepared simply to go for the money, then we can help you but as I have said, it is quite likely that you will only be up to claim the declared value.

The cost of bringing action for £1500 is probably about £250 or so. I'm not sure. The cost of bringing an action to recover the property I think is about £500 – once again, I'm not sure.

It's a shame that you didn't bring the desktop unit back separately. It's value to you is clearly very great and it would have been worth accommodating your other personal possessions in your package rather than taking them on as luggage in the aircraft and instead bringing the desktop unit through as hand luggage in a backpack.

I think you had better think about how you want to proceed.
If you want to proceed for recovery of the package then you would be bringing an action under the Torts (Interference with Goods Act) 1977 

Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

An Act to amend the law concerning conversion and other torts affecting goods.

– and you would be asking the court to make an order against the defendant who appears to be in possession of your property to produce it immediately.
Normally speaking you would have to send a letter of claim giving 14 days but I think in the circumstances I think a very brief warning to the other side would be quite forgivable and that you should issue your claim by Monday.

You say that they panicked when they were told there was a tracker. I'm not sure that it was a good idea to tell them – but that is done now. Can you tell us more about the panic. Is there any evidence in writing that they were worried?

Finally, where it becomes impossible for the defendant to produce the item that they are detaining, then they can be forced to pay damages instead. However the quantum of damages is at large. Once again you have undervalued the package at £1500. You would probably get some kind of payment as a slap on the wrist for the defendant for retaining the parcel but I doubt whether that would exceed £500. 

[mutato-nomine]

Oh dear, this does not sound good. I realized it was mistake not paying for full insurance when I started filling the customs declaration/invoice, because than I had to “adapt” the content value to  the insured price. If I only knew, what I know now… I would have not done it 

 

Few things worth to mention… When the package was collected, the driver didn’t gave me a receipt for the collection, and I asked him to make a photo of his scanning device. Later when I was filing all the evidences, I notice that the parcel was marked as “dangerous goods”. I asked Packlink about this, and they of course ignored my question. This might have caused the delivery issue.

 

One day after the collection, I got an email that the Customs declaration was missing, although it was attached to the parcel. I filled another one and sent it to the shipping company. So far so good, until the parcel arrived in UK. You can see in the file attached just one part of the crazy updates I was getting. Same parcel, different updates.

 

I understand your point of undervaluation and agree with you that I shot myself in the foot. If it comes to the court of course I will not claim 3000 EUR, but the value I put in the customs declaration. I am guilty of a mistake, and I will have to pay the price of it… 

 

Quote

You say that they panicked when they were told there was a tracker. I'm not sure that it was a good idea to tell them – but that is done now. Can you tell us more about the panic. Is there any evidence in writing that they were worried?

 

I know it was not good idea, and if it was me, I wouldn’t have said it, but it was my mom who believes that honesty always wins. She told the FedEx guy that there was a tracking device inside, and his reaction was rather surprised and disappointed, telling her “oh, I see.” I am sure they wanted to make it “disappear”, because they know there is an expensive computer inside, but it would have been too obvious if they steal it and destroy the AirTag. 

 

My interest lays more on recovering the parcel (computer) than to go for the money. What do I have to do? 

 

I deeply appreciate the time you take to help me and others. 

2022-12-15 19-32.pdf

[BankFodder]

If you want to go for the money then probably you will have to settle for the £1,500. It will be pretty straightforward and if you read the stories on the subforum you will understand the route that all the claims take.

 

If you want to try and force them to deliver up the computer to you then you will have to start a part 8 claim which is rather more complicated. I'm going to give a shout out to my site team colleague @Andyorch for some help on this.

 

However, I believe that you will have to fill out a claim form and submit it directly to your local county court office together with the fee 

 

 Where are you based?

 

 Don't forget that if you happen to lose this case and they spend money defending then you could potentially be liable for some of their costs as well.

 

Also, the cost of beginning this part 8 claim is likely to be around £400 or more.

 

 Don't imagine that any of this is going to happen very quickly. If you go for the money then it will probably take 6 months .

If you try to get the computer then you will have to start a claim and then you will have to make an emergency application to the court for an order against the people who are currently in position of your computer .

By the way, who is that?

 

 Applying for an interlocutory order will cost a further £200 or £300.

I'm afraid none of this is a cheap process. However, if you win, then you will get all your money back. Plus you will be able to claim your own costs at about £19 per hour.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

17 minutes ago, mutato-nomine said:

I realized it was mistake not paying for full insurance

 

no that is not the point that is being made.

 

[BankFodder]

Yes, as my site team colleague has indicated above, it wasn't the insurance that was the problem.

It was the fact that the value was wrongly declared.

 

The insurance is irrelevant

[mutato-nomine]

3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Yes, as my site team colleague has indicated above, it wasn't the insurance that was the problem.

It was the fact that the value was wrongly declared.

 

The insurance is irrelevant

 

I understood that, but I declared 1500 only because before filling the customs declaration, I already paid for the insurance valued 1500. 

 

I am not a seller, who is dealing every day with shippings and customs declarations. I have learned something through my mistake, but this very mistake is already done. 

 

3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Where are you based?

Pending between London Barking and Palma de Mallorca.

 

3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

If you try to get the computer then you will have to start a claim and then you will have to make an emergency application to the court for an order against the people who are currently in position of your computer .

By the way, who is that?

 

TNT/FedEx. The parcel is since 21.11. on the way back to origin (???)

 

I forgot to tell you that the tracking is not attached to the computer, but in one of my personal items inside the package. If the computer is stolen, I wouldn’t be able to track it with this device. I have marked it in my iCloud as stolen. In case it goes online, it will send me a message with the location (if connected to WiFi) and will lock it and erase the files.

 

3 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Applying for an interlocutory order will cost a further £200 or £300.

Sorry for asking, but I dont know how is the proceeding with the applying for interlocutory order. Is it after the court claim?

[dx100uk]

On 14/12/2022 at 15:51, mutato-nomine said:

I know for sure that the updates are false, as I have an AirTag (tracking device) in the parcel and I can see that the parcel never left Dartford.

 

it is still there?

[mutato-nomine]

I could see with the AirTag that it left Dartford a week ago and it moved to Kingsbury where it stayed for few days, then  returned to Dartford again. (Fake) tracking status stated it is in San Fernando de Henares, Spain, and two hours later in Koeln, Germany. I saw it today moving on A2, Dunkirk probably returning to origin. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by mutato-nomine

[BankFodder]

So you say that it is on its way back to Spain?

 

And also, I'm curious.
You seem to be pretty savvy about the use of trackers and also software trackers within the device itself. Don't you have a backup of the data?

[mutato-nomine]

Its seems it is on the way back to Spain. If it ever arrive, I will have to fly back to get it…so stupid

 

I have backup on older data, but not in the last months, because the house I rented had issues with the WiFi…

 

Anyway, would you still advise me to file a claim. I really dont trust this shambolic company.

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that in a way it has now become more complicated because if the parcel is actually on its way back to you in Spain, it's difficult to know exactly what action to take.

You certainly can't take an action ordering them to release the parcel to you. They don't have any more and it's not the jurisdiction. Furthermore, it might be possible for them to argue that they are returning it because of customers requirements et cetera.

If you decide to bring a claim for £1500, then in principle if you win, they become the owners of the parcel and can do what they want with it.

I'm a bit mystified here but my gut instinct is that you will have to wait and see what happens in Spain – and then later on you can certainly try to sue them for any wasted costs in having shipped it over to UK in the first place and of course having to do so again.

Frankly I think that that is probably in your best interests although I'm sure it is very frustrating not knowing where your property is and whether the laptop is still with it.

Of course you know now that in future you should value items correctly and also that when you part with an item like this in the circumstances, it's a Big Fail not to take a completely up-to-date backup. Once again, you seem to be very savvy about these kind of things but you seem to take your eye off the ball at critical moments.

Let us know what you think

[mutato-nomine]

Yeah, I had to learn the hard way. 
 

Thank you for your expert advice. I will wait than to see if they return the parcel, and later will sue them. I am ready to fight those criminals. I honestly dont know how such shambolic, unfit for purpose and without any sparks of hope company are still in business. 
 

Again, your time and advices are very much appreciated. I will keep you updated!

[BankFodder]

If you get the parcel back then claim any extra expenses associated with getting it back to you in UK.

If you don't get the parcel back then we will help you sue for the declared value.

 

[mutato-nomine]

Thank you BankFodder. 

 

There was a little spark of hope, that I will get it back as I saw it in Madrid yesterday, but then I got update stating: “RETURNED TO SENDER AS AGREED” … ,yet another lie? And now is traveling in France and is close to Paris. 

 

I will wait until Monday, but than I have to take some action.