PCM/Gladstones Claimform - scratched 7am not PM on visitors voucher - Tachbrook SW1 V (Peabody Estate Pimlico, London).

[FTMDave]

OK, well it's pointless harping on & on.  We'll shut up about the tenancy agreement from now on.

 

It could lead to you easily winning the case but hey, a simple mail to get an easily-obtainable document is beyond your friend, so so be it.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I've not given up asking. I have sent her the link to request it via the website's SAR procedure. I will be seeing her on Saturday in Taiwan so will pin her down to sort it out then...hopefully.

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Hello again all.

I managed to get my friend to request a copy of her tenancy agreement via SAR from Peabody Trust. They have given her a reference number so hopefully they will send it soon. 

 

In the meant time, I've received correspondences from Gladstones. However, I don't think they have provided me with all the information I actually requested. They sent me copies of the ticket and relating information that I already had from the Parking Management company. They went on to say something about the doctrine of "privity" applying, and that the contract between "our client and their client" being commercially sensitive.

 

They then made reference to cases of VCS v HM Revenue & Customs (2013) and Parking Eye v Beavis (CA 2015) stating that "it was made clear that a contracting party need not show they have a right to do what they have promised in the performance of a contract nor is (in the case of a parking operator) the agreement between Operator and Landowner of any relevance." 

 

In a nutshell, they appear to be saying they do not have to provide any proof to me, to say they have the authority to operate as a parking management agent/company on that estate.

 

Also, I believe I made my request to them in December but they have only responded on 2nd February, which is outside the 14 days period for them to respond, which was in my request to them.

 

They also sent me a copy of the 'Notice of Transfer of Proceedings'. I am not sure what will happen next, or if there is anything else I should be doing at this stage.

 

Please, is there any guidance available from anyone on what to do next? I am out of my depth with all this and appreciate any help I can get.

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi. I expect the guys will be along to comment later.

 

Is the Notice of Transfer of Proceedings notifying you that the case has been allocated to a court near you?

 

HB

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Good morning Honeybee13,  

 

Thanks for your fast response.

 

Yes, the claim has been transferred to the county court nearest where I live.

It is saying it will then be referred to a procedural judge who will allocate the claim to track and give a case management directions. This will then be sent to me in a 'notice of allocations'.

 

I have to admit, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with it all now, as I really don't know what I am doing. 

 

Please, do you think I will end up with a county court judgement once this is all dealt with in the court?

I'm assuming they will make a judgement for me to pay Gladstones as I don't think I have a strong case at this moment in time. 

 

Any advice welcomed.

Thanks

 

[Nicky Boy]

You should really upload anything you're getting if you don't understand it, to give the guys a chance to advise further.

Also, whatever the say, they WILL have to supply EVERYTHING you ask for as evidence well before any court action.

 

This is standard rubbish to intimidate you (Don't let it). There's a long way to go yet. You would know this if you'd been reading plenty of other threads.

 

Upload please, and get reading!

Edited February 23, 2023 by Nicky Boy
Typo

[honeybee13]

You can only get a CCJ if the judge rules against you, tells you to pay Gladstones and then you don't do that within 28 days, I think it is. As long as you do what the court decides, you can't have a CCJ awarded against you.

 

I have to say that if you don't understand what's happening, now is the time to start reading as many PPC court threads as you can. Have a look at our Parking Successes subforum where most people have been to court, to see how their cases went, I would start with the most recent ones. We can answer questions, but we aren't the ones who are going to be talking to a judge on the day.

 

HB

 

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Thank you. I will upload and try to read what I can. I am sorry, but I am quite overwhelmed with all my existing commitments right now, which doesn't give me much time to read much else. Please believe me it is truly not a cop out. 

 

Thanks again all.

[honeybee13]

13 minutes ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Thank you. I will upload and try to read what I can. I am sorry, but I am quite overwhelmed with all my existing commitments right now, which doesn't give me much time to read much else. Please believe me it is truly not a cop out. 

 

Well, we can't do it for you and it's becoming urgent. I's sorry to go on but all through this thread we've had to remind you or push you to do things before various deadline and you still don't seem to have done any reading.

 

As the saying goes 'fail to prepare - prepare to fail'.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

There is ususlly something if what they send in the way of threats and "Admin" fees etc that can be used against them, an example is the tactic of settle now or a giant spider will eat your house type of thing if you don't pay.

[FTMDave]

A CPR request is just a request.  They don't have to comply.  So they've done nothing wrong.
 

However, their failure to supply documentation is to your advantage.  Think about it.

 

Later on in your Witness Statement you can write that you sent a CPR request to Gladstones, requesting to see a copy of their client's contract with the landowner, and proof of planning permission for their signs.  Although they replied to you they refused to supply these proofs.  You believe they don't exist.

 

Nicky Boy and HoneyBee are spot on.  You need to gen up and realise what will come next during the court procedure.  This short thread goes all the way through the stages of a court claim  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

 

[dx100uk]

9 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Also, I believe I made my request to them in December but they have only responded on 2nd February, which is outside the 14 days period for them to respond, which was in my request to them.

 

there is no time limit.

 

but if you'd been reading up you'd KNOW they have to produce everything they intend to rely upon at the disclosures stage later in the court process.

 

9 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

They also sent me a copy of the 'Notice of Transfer of Proceedings'. I am not sure what will happen next, or if there is anything else I should be doing at this stage.

 

they the fleecers did not send you notice of transfer of proceedings' the COURT DID.

 

 get reading up not disappear for a whole MONTH without doing ANYTHING.

 

 

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Hello again all, I'm still around.

Still have a lot on but not yet thrown in the towel...at least not until I've had an update from you guys.

 

My friend and I have been chasing Peabody since February 16th for a copy of her tenancy agreement. They sent her one for a former address but it went to her spam box.

 

We only found out yesterday and have been chasing them again relentlessly since. I have a court date for late June.

 

Also, PCM has sent me a load of papers which I think is the particulars of their claim.

 

They have included something which says they are "authorised to operate a parking management and /or enforcement service" at the place my car was ticketed. However, that postcode is not exactly the same as my friend's postcode where I think the car was parked.

 

I don't know if such a small detail as the actual postcode would make any difference, as they have sent a photo of an area within which they are permitted to operate.  However, the Authority to Operate document appears to be on their own headed paper.

 

I would have thought it would need to be something on Peabody paper as they are the ones supposedly granting the permission??

 

My view is anyone can write anything on their own headed paper saying they have permission to do something on someone else's land, or am I thinking incorrectly in your experiences?? They have blacked out the name and signature of the authorising person.

 

Can anyone help re the above.

 

Also, I have read a lot of posts and have not found anything solid which I could use to defend my particular case.

 

Perhaps I have not been looking at the correct postings?

 

Also, the information pertaining to parking on the old tenancy agreement they sent, didn't seem to suggest a right to any parking, so I'm thinking the correct tenancy agreement for her current address will not be much different.

 

My case is beginning to look pretty hopeless to me. Does that mean I am liable to spend another £75 for issuing and cost on top of their current asking price?

 

Hope you guys can break down the above and respond so I can understand clearly. I am not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Describing paperwork is pretty pointless. The guys need to actually read it all.

Please post up everything you've mentioned above...

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Ok, I will do. In the meant time, I have requested a copy of the document granting PCM authority to manage the car park under freedom of information and received an email contacting the following: 

 

"Thank you for your email.



The Freedom of Information Act doesn't apply to Peabody as we are a not a public body. 



We can provide copies of any personal data we are processing for individuals as part of a Subject Access Request, however your request does not fall within this remit as this is not your personal data and therefore not disclosable to you."

 

I'm just checking, is this correct?

Peabody have also responded to the latest email re: copy of Tenancy agreement SAR I sent to them on behalf of my friend saying:

"A request for a copy of a tenancy agreement on it's own, is not a Subject Access Request, and is therefore handled by the appropriate team within Peabody."

I have explained that she is not asking for a copy of "a" tenancy agreement, but is asking for a copy of her own which would include her name, address, and other particulars pertaining to herself including her signature. Surely that is permitted under SAR?? Can anyone concur?



[dx100uk]

yes SAR.

 

 

 

you mean they have sent you their Witness statement

scan it all up to one mass PDf inc the exhibits.

 

what date is the court hearing 

and what date have YOU got to file YOUR Witness Statement by?

scan up the court order please ASAP.

 

again you disappear for a month and have done stupid again by thinking you could send an FIO 

 

dx

 

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I hope I have done this correctly. It has taken me the last few hours do figure it out again, but the attached is mainly what was sent. The other items included in their witness statement are a repeat of what they had sent previously i.e. photos of the ticket on the car, copy of ticket sent to my house etc. I have previously uploaded all that information.

 

Please can someone have a look and let me know what you think.

 

In the meant time I am waiting for Peabody to reply.

 

They insist that the request for a copy of my friend's tenancy agreement is not a request that would be handled via a SAR. They have referred her back to the advisor that sent the incorrect Tenancy agreement who is away from work until 17th April. I don't know why they don't agree with the request being an SAR

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

Please can someone confirm if my documents were received. I'm not sure whether I scanned them in properly. I did receive a message saying something was larger than the permitted Max file size, so I don't know if anything was actually scanned in or if something was left out. If something was left out, I don't know what. 

 

Also, I thought I had already sent a witness statement via the MCOL site some time ago, or have I got that wrong as well, and should be submitting something at this stage??? Again, apologies for not fully understanding the process. I find it all really overwhelming. 

[honeybee13]

There's not attachment to your previous post, sadly. If it works, you can see a box with your pdf title at the bottom of the post.

 

Have another read of our upload guide, it covers file sizes as well.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

On 12/12/2022 at 15:21, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Hi again guys,

 

I'm about to send of the defence before the deadline which I believe is tomorrow.

 

Is it ok to just send this as it is?

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [********].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The particulars of claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

Please advise so I can sort this evening.

 

you filed a defence last december.

 

now its been allocated and she has a court date, next is her Witness statement.

 

scan up the whole letter all pages from the court whereby they give this date and other info. like WS filing date.

 

make it a PDF less than 4.8MB and then hit choose file at the bottom of these msgs box in a new post and upload it.

 

dx

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

Hi,

You said to send everything which I tried to do but it said the file was too large. I hadn't even included all the pictures because I had previously sent them. 

I will try again. It took me hours to do and I still hadn't done it properly.

[dx100uk]

n157 is the priority

 

then the claimants ws.

 

if files are greater than 4.8mb

read upload

use the sites listed there

like pdfruducer to make files smaller

or split large file up to bits less than 4.8

we can deal later

 

n157 court letter please 1st.

 

dx

 

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I have checked all my paperwork received and I don't seem to have a N157 Notice of allocation to small claims track 

still trying to send what I do have

 

I hope this one goes through

 

Claimants WS.pdf

[dx100uk]

Can we have the court letter that tells you the date of the hearing etc... Whatever it is you got.

 

Dx

[Disgruntled driver2022]

I had the letter and now have misplaced it somewhere among the mountains of papers all around me. I am trying to deal with a number of other legal matters aside from this situation, hence the feeling of being overwhelmed.

I will have to contact the courts to see if they can send me another but I remember the date was 23 June.

[dx100uk]

Ok well typically rhere is a date the fleecers must pay their hearing fee, then a date (typically 14 days before the hearing) whereby you must send your ws by.

 

but there might be an earlier date listed. Try and find it as if you screw up your ws content or are late, you will be screwed.

 

the court. Nor the fleecers will care you have 'other issues'. They will nail you given the slightest excuse and you will lose by default.

 

Dx