WWW.MOUNTBATTENCARSALES.CO.UK/Close Brothers - Faulty car

[dx100uk]

correct their job not yours within 6mts.

 

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Ok thanks for confirming.

How can I word this to them, shall I just be blunt and quote the consumer rights act?

[dx100uk]

 this is  the retailer not close I assume?

 

 

[Giraffegirl13]

No, this is the email I received from close brothers finance…

[dx100uk]

i did warn you close brothers a re like moneybarn , they either don't understand stuff or make up their own interpretation.

but they appear go get things done once focussed.

 

yes be blunt, and also remind them it is their car, you are only the registered keeper/owner.

 

dx

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Thank you I will send them another email later

[BankFodder]

This post is rather long and maybe rambling and a bit technical that I suddenly had a moment of clarity in respect of what the consumer rights act is trying to do and I thought I'd better set out here because it is highly relevant to the thread – and it is very relevant you any other threads on this forum relating to the sale of cars and other items which have been bought and sold.


I think there has been a level of misunderstanding of the consumer rights act is doing and also its relationship with general contract law
I've only just realised this myself but things are much clearer now.

Overall, the consumer rights act confirms that you are entitled expect certain benefits from any contract for goods.
Maybe this is that you are entitled to expect that anything you buy will be of satisfactory quality and will remain satisfactory for a reasonable period of time.
"Reasonable period of time" is the amount of time that a reasonable consumer would expect that particular item to last given the type of item, the price paid, and any claims made about it by the seller.
"Satisfactory quality" means the condition of any item which would be expected by reasonable consumer given the type, price, claims et cetera blah blah.

You're right to enjoy an item of satisfactory quality can be dual as long as a piece of string. If you bought a new car that you would certainly expect to last for a good six years without any defects manifest themselves – wear and tear excepted.

If you pay £10,000 for a car which has only 50,000 miles or so on the clock that by and large I would have thought that you could expected to last at least three or four years without manifesting any particular defects – other than wear and tear.
All this is predicated of course on the assumption that the car is well maintained and serviced et cetera. In other words the consumer also has responsibilities towards the car.

Where a vehicle starts to manifest defects during the period of "reasonable expectation", then there is really no need to show that defects will already there when the vehicles bought. You simply expect it not to manifest any defects without reasonable period of time – and if it does, then it becomes the liability of the seller.
The seller can only defend themselves by showing there was no defect, or that the car was not properly maintained or it was subject to abuse, for that the defect manifest itself after the "reasonable period of time" is expired.
I find that pretty good test for "– reasonable period of time" or for "satisfactory quality" is to ask whether if the dealer at the time the car advertised it –

Quote

"only £10,000 but you may have to spend £1000 or more during the first year of ownership in order to carry out certain repairs…"

Whether anybody would buy the car.
I'm quite sure that the answer is definitely – No.

I think the same test is good for TVs, washing machines, computers – every item that you can imagine which might be for sale be it new or be it second-hand.

 

This is the basis of the consumer rights act 2015. It was the basis of the sale of goods act 1979 and it was the basis of the sale of goods act 1893 – and in fact it basically reflects the rules of contract law relating to the sales of goods.

 

So the consumer rights act basically this confirms what has been in place for well over 100 years.
This means that you enjoy your rights regardless of the six-month rule and if you can simply show that the car is clearly not of satisfactory quality then you have a perfect claim against the seller.
The remedy available depends on the nature of the defect. If the defect is relatively minor then you would simply be entitled to damages which would amount to the cost of making good the defect so that the car becomes of "satisfactory quality".

However, if the defect is a major defect so that it can be said that you have been deprived of the entire purpose of the contract, then that defect is known as a "fundamental breach". A fundamental breach means that the seller has destroyed the contract and you are entitled to treat it as terminated after which you are released from all obligations.

The consumer rights act also tried to introduce some statutory remedies which were intended to introduce certain rights where defects became apparent within a fairly short time of ownership.
So if a defect appears within 30 days, then you are entitled to reject the car out of hand. If a defect occurs within six months then the seller has the right to attempt a single repair and if that fails, then you are entitled to reject the car out of hand.

However, the six-month provisions that replace the basic law relating to satisfactory quality and fundamental breach.

The right to reject rules in the consumer rights act were meant to be helpful but in fact we are finding that they are simply muddying the waters. Dealers don't seem to understand them and they are simply producing traditional confusion to all parties – including Me.

So the bottom line here is that you don't need to show that defect was present at the time or the car. You simply need to show that the is not of satisfactory quality and you also need to show that the problem in question is not mine and it is fundamental.

Your car is off the road because it assesses the effective. There is no doubt in my mind that you have been deprived of the entire purpose of the contract.
It is a fundamental breach of contract. It is clear by any measure that this car has not been satisfactory quality for a reasonable period of time.

You don't need to worry about whether a defect was there at the outset. You are entitled to get your money's worth for your £10,000 and very clearly you didn't.


 

[Giraffegirl13]

Thank you very much for that explanation - I definitely understand better now.

I have not yet had a reply again re "the report" they asked me to get, but I will obviously keep you updated.

 

[BankFodder]

The report is essential.  But once you get that then I suggest that you move to a letter of claim very quickly.

Let them have the report and if nothing after 5 days, then the letter of claim.

 

Disregard their 8 week deadline - that is an industry trick intended to give them control of the timescale and to make you think that you have no other rights.

 

When is the report due?

[Giraffegirl13]

Sorry I may have misunderstood - I thought they had to do the report, as I've already sent them the information and quotes on what is wrong with the car?

[BankFodder]

It's probably me because I haven't fully looked at the thread again.

 

Have you posted up the quotes and reports that you have received so far?

If not then please could you do that.

 

 

 

 

[Giraffegirl13]

I have sent one invoice for work done and 2 quotes through with info.

I'll just have to turn them into images to post here, 2 secs 

[BankFodder]

You need to post them as PDF files. A single combined file

And looking up a few posts where you were produced an email from them including a list of things that they required, it is clear to me that you were meant to be doing the report and this is what I would expect anyway.

 

It is better that you do reports and supply documentation because it keeps you in control. Otherwise you will find yourself hanging around for reports carried out by them and you may not even get sight of the report.

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Ok thank you - what is the difference between a report and a quote?

 

Document 11.pdf

[BankFodder]

A report might be a formal document and possibly without the quotation on.

If you have corroborating quotes from Independent sources then that will be fine I expect.

 

Let's have a look this afternoon and see if we can put it together and tell the finance company that they have had sufficient information and they had better pull their finger out

 

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Just rang the garage that did the final quote and they have agreed to have a look and hopefully write a report for me. Not sure on cost etc yet, but will keep updated.

I have 2 separate mechanic quotes stating the engine needs to basically be taken out and redone.

[BankFodder]

Please post up the documents that you have so far.

Get a quotation for the report that you have been offered but don't put it in hand yet.

Stand by for a reply later on

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Here is what I have already sent to the finance company.

 

 

 

Document 11.pdf

[BankFodder]

These are not quite what is required.

 

They describe the work that would be carried out but they don't describe the symptoms and the problem.

 

These quotes at least need to say that they found xxx which they put down to xxx and the following work is needed to address those defects.

 

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Thank you for confirming, I will get this ASAP from the garage and send to finance company once I have it.

[BankFodder]

Please don't send anything to the finance company until you check it out with us. We will need to draft a letter.

Once you have got the modified quotation or the report then come back here

[BankFodder]

I'm suggesting this letter as a rough draft.

Please check it and amend it as necessary and post the amended copy up here. We will finalise it once you have received the report.

If they don't comply within seven days then we will draft a letter of claim and you will start the action 15 days later. You had better assume that you will be bringing the action

We need to know exactly how much you have spent. Although the value of the agreement is more than £10,000 if we sue for that amount then this will take you out of the small claims process and that could be dangerous in terms of costs.
We need to know exactly what your outlay is so far in terms of high purchase repayments and any other expenses.

We would also like to know how much you have paid on insurance and any other reasonably incurred expenses in relation to the vehicle ownership and its use.

You need to start getting this ready quite quickly so that we can get a very good idea of what your claim will look like and how much you are claiming

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

Reference number XXX

I am enclosing the reports and quotations for work to the vehicle which you have sold to me on hire purchase.

The vehicle is currently off the road because it is under driveable because of the defects. I have already made you aware of this but you seem to be either unresponsive or uncooperative.

It is very clear from the attached documents and also from the fact that the vehicle is under driveable that it is not of satisfactory quality to the extent that there is a fundamental breach of contract by you which has effectively deprived me of the entire benefit of contract.

I require you to make the regions arrangements to remove the vehicle because it is occupying space in my driveway. The car has already been there for some weeks and are not prepared to tolerate this any further.
I'm giving you notice that if you have not removed the court within seven days then I shall start charging you storage at a rate of £10 per day and I will recover this money from you by legal action if necessary.

I also require you to make immediate arrangements to repay to me all the money has been paid to you so that we are set at zero.

I understand that you consider that you have a wish to make a decision. I'm telling you now that I'm not prepared to abide by your timescale is and I shall be taking my own action if I do not have a satisfactory response and also the vehicle remove my premises within seven days from the date of this letter.

Yours faithfully

 

[Giraffegirl13]

Great thanks - I will amend and update as soon as I get the report through.

[Giraffegirl13]

Haven't yet heard back from the garage with a report for the car so I am chasing that up.

In the meantime I have now put a deposit down on a new car and I'm obviously looking at transferring the insurance over from my old car…

 

The worry I have is if the finance company turn out to be complete idiots I won't have any insurance on my current car, and won't get any money back if I write it off?

 

Can you give any words of advice in this situation?

[BankFodder]

I thought that you weren't driving your current car and that it was parked off road