Premier (vanishing) Windscreen PCN - Parked in Disabled Bay Without Displaying a Valid Disabled Badge

[FTMDave]

I know it's easy to get lost in minutiae and abbreviations.  To keep it simple.  Consider these cases.  For simplicity let's say they are all ANPR captures.

 

Remember that the fleecers get the keeper's details from the DVLA.  But they would have to sue the driver.  They don't know who the driver was.  Lots of people drive other people's cars - my son often drives mine.

 

CASE ONE  The charlatans get their bilge to a motorist in England ten days after the event. They can use an English law, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, to transfer liability to the keeper, and can sue the keeper whose address they have.

 

CASE TWO  The spivs get their bilge to a motorist in England twenty days after the event.  That is after the POFA 14 days.  They are stumped.

 

CASE THREE  The conartists get their bilge to a motorist in England twenty days after the event.  But the keeper has stupidly appealed and told them they were the driver.  They can sue the keeper.

 

CASE FOUR  The fleecers get their bilge to a motorist in Scotland ten days after the event.  They're stumped.  There is no POFA in Scotland.  They haven't a clue who the driver was.  

 

That is why dx constantly mentions POFA - it doesn't exist in Scotland.

 

Mcnato's thread concerns another parking company, the most litigious in the UK, reading it will give you a good idea of what your Mum will face  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427570-vcs-pcn-ntk-nicol-street-kirkcaldy-scotland-ky11-1ny/#comment-5181397

 

[whiteadder]

Thanks FTM Dave for taking the time to explain the situation a bit clearer - a better way to focus your energy than insulting my intelligence.

 

I know you guys are busy and are under no obligation to help people and do so out of the goodness of your hearts, but shorthand responses full of acronyms I’ve never heard of before along with perhaps the assumption that I am even aware of how the fundamental dynamics around getting a parking fine from a private company work just lack the clarity I need to get my head round the situation here -

 

something I’ll need going forward when my mum phones me up worried about a follow up letter she is going to receive?

 

I read that thread which was posted previously and got the jist etc - I will look over it again in case there is anything I missed 

 

I’ve never heard of the fopa2012 act - I looked at it on the gov website but I couldn’t work out what relevance it has here because I have no idea what “tort of freedom” means.

 

I still don’t now whether to expect a NTK - I guess it has to be within 14 days in Scotland but it doesn’t apply anyway because I’m in Scotland and neither does the PCN they sent because the fopa2012 doesn’t apply in Scotland - have I got those bits right?

 

Maybe it’s anyone’s guess whether they then send an NTK?

 

Somebody mentioned Scotland’s right to roam laws - I am aware of the basic workings of that - that we are free to walk onto private land (within reason) but if the owner requests that we leave we have to or we can be arrested for trespass then.

 

No one came and asked us to leave, therefore the fopa2012 bla bla bla (UK law) legalese legalese is overruled by this law (devolved Scottish law) Am I on the right tack there?

 

Hey dx100uk - maybe if I’m not entirely following what you guy’s are saying it’s because you’re not explaining things properly, or you’re assuming knowledge some of us might not have?

 

The sticky you keep referring me to (which I did read and digest) didn’t explain the situation properly to me - a total noob to the parking ticket world.

 

I don’t mean to say these things to insult you or anyone here - it’s just feedback.

 

VParking Cowboys have some kind of mini Wikipedia style section that explains everything in detail in plain English to the layman - I found it helpful anyway and intend to go back to read some more when I have the time.

 

Think about what I say, or not but I mean no disrespect to the site by speaking candidly 

 

Thanks to all for the advice and help

[FTMDave]

You won't understand POFA - I certainly don't - because the vast majority has nothing to do with parking.  It's Schedule 4 of the Act that is the relevant bit.  The fleecers got Parliament to tag this bit on to the Act.  It was meant to help them get round their big obstacle of never knowing who the driver was.  It means that, under certain circumstances like respecting the 14 days and 29-56 days stuff, they can transfer liability from the driver to the keeper.

 

But the great news for you is that it is an English law!  I've been on this forum for nearly seven years and I haven't seen a single court case against a Scottish motorist.  Even historically and elsewhere the only cases I've heard of in Scotland is where someone has been daft enough to correspond with the fleecers and has outed themselves as the driver.

 

What will happen to your Mum is what any company, private parking or not, will do when trying to collect a "debt".  Threaten court in the hope of frightening the person into coughing up, even though in reality they have no intention of doing court.  So your Mum will get some of -

 

1.  A reminder letter saying she has missed the discount period and  she now owes £100 instead of £60 (in reality she owes £0 but they try to scare people by pretending there will be constant increases).

 

2.  A FINAL REMINDER or some such in SCARY RED LETTERS pretending the amount is now £160 (again, in reality it's £0).

 

3.  A letter from a debt collector or a solicitor like Mcnato got.  A debt collector has no powers as it's not their debt.  As for the solicitor, well I used to work in a solicitor's office and these standard letters aren't even seen by solicitors, they're sent out by the office staff.  And as I did that job way back in 1983, nowadays the letter will be on the fleecers' computer and printed out without the solicitor even looking at it.

 

4.  Generally after this they give up.

 

As you can see it's all meant to scare and hint at further terrible consequences.  But it's all hot air from paper tigers.

[whiteadder]

That all sounds very reassuring and scenario 4. In above post registered with my brain previously - something about the key thing being knowing who the driver is. Many thanks again - I will make sure my mum knows 1. Not to engage in any communication with the bandits and 2. Don’t lose any sleep over it

 

Does this mean the gypsies might be targeting us specifically because they have seen a pattern whereby this guy who doesn’t appear to have a need rolling up on disabled spots with his mum and they’re trying to catch my mum out? 

 

Sometimes she doesn’t get out of the car, you know and it’s just me rolling up and getting out

[dx100uk]

Probably not even an employee of premier but someone paid a backhander to dob people in. Their use is totally illegal and against GDPR 

 

Usually the way in Scotland.  horizon do the same with a backhander to trolley guys at Tesco 

 

[FTMDave]

I doubt you're being targeted specifically.

 

As dx says, the private parking companies give backhanders to creeps to get them to check the car park, and the blue badge bay is always going to be an obvious target.

 

Despite the dubious legality of these invoices, to avoid future hassle it'd probably be better if your mum got a blue badge.  You pushed me into looking into how to do so, there's a bit of bureaucracy and faffing around with the council involved, but nothing impossible.

 

 

[whiteadder]

I noticed at Tesco yesterday there were signs up saying something along the lines they are providing the disabled parking bays for BB holders - but it stopped short of stating exclusivity or requesting badges to be displayed

 

My mum looked into this - late dad used to have one so she knows the procedure -

 

she said something about one criterion for eligibility being that you can’t walk more than 50m unassisted or something - which she can but in her circumstances (until she can get another injection from her GP)

 

any walking she does causes pain and she takes paracetamol most days for it - and also as you’d expect the more walking she does the more pain she ends up in at the end of the day which often means she struggles to get around the house

 

I’ll see if I can get her to apply anyway but she says the eligibility criteria have got stricter in recent years

[honeybee13]

It may depend on the council but would your mum"s GP support her?

 

HB

[lookinforinfo]

I am sorry that your Mother is having so much pain while walking. Paracetamol is not the answer except for short term use.

 

Please apply for a Blue badge as if you continue to use those spaces without qualifying for being disabled, if it ever gets to Court,

 

Judges take a dim view of their misuse though they may take into consideration that you Mother does have trouble walking.

 

However it may be that by her using the space allocated , it may mean that a person with a Blue badge is unable to.

 

On top of that if you persist in parking in them without a BB your Mother will collect a fair amount of PCNs which if issued by the Council will be payable as different rules apply with Council PCNs.

 

Until she gets her BB perhaps you could park your car next to the BB spaces which will still be close to the shops and wont risk being harassed by the rogues that run private car parks.

 

It will mean that your Mother will have to walk a wee bit more or perhaps time her visits close to when she gets her injection.

 

Also worth seeing from her doctor whether they can increase the number of injections or their strength to avoid paracetamol.

 

The fact that she needs extra painkillers should help your doctor recommend your Mother applies for a BB as Honeybee suggested.

[whiteadder]

I think GP’s or some medical authority need to get involved in the application process for a BB - I’ll push her to get that done but ultimately it’s her decision.

 

She gets some injection every 6 months but I think that’s as often as she can get it because they contain steroids or something I’m not sure.

 

Possibly considering a knee replacement op for the long term - but these things can take a long time and with the current backlog in the NHS she isn’t holding her breath 

[dx100uk]

How old is she? Sorry for asking but it could be useful,?

 

Dx 

[whiteadder]

75

[whiteadder]

BB online application done - so wait and see - at least it’s worth applying for if this does ever go to court which it won’t 

[whiteadder]

BB on the way now apparently - easy as that?

 

Late dad used to have a BB for a heart condition but one time they were difficult in renewing so I’m told..

 

Anyway - see you far you get with your court action threats (incoming) now you pesky blinders

Edited September 21, 2022 by whiteadder

[whiteadder]

As expected, mum is getting more letters from them. This is the 3rd letter just arrived (2nd one came a few weeks ago and was tossed into a drawer while I was there and I forgot to look at it)

 

Of course, she is getting worried about it and I've told her what you guys said, ie. they don't know who the driver was and therefore because Scottish law they're stuffed - so just carry on ignore and don't worry

 

Just posting this up for your records - I'm sure if there is anything to worry about someone will let me know. Cheers. 

park charge letter 3pdf.pdf

[FTMDave]

You & your mum can safely keep on laughing at these threats and ignoring them.