I purchased a Van unfit for use from Brunel used commercials/The Van Hub. They are refusing a refund.

[johnonymous]

On the 27th of October 2021 I paid a £300 cash deposit for a Van. I was told it would come with a full mot and with this in mind I was happy to buy without a test drive. 

 

On the 30th of October I paid for the van via bank transfer,  for the remaining  £2,000. I drove it for around 5 miles back to my friends house by which point it was obvious that the mot had not been legitimately obtained. The power steering pump was noisy and the airbag light was on.

 

I contacted the DVLA who sent some people round to perform quality control. They found that the Van (which had come with no advisories) should have been given 3 dangerous and 7 major fails. 

 

I sent a letter to Brunel exercising my right of return within 30 days. The letter was returned, refused.

 

I sent a letter intimating my intention to go to court. The letter was returned, refused.

 

At this point the citizens advice service recommended  making a money claim. 

 

There is another issue complicating this which is that my friend is moving out in April. I cannot drive the car as it is dangerous and I cannot park it on the road as I have had to declare it SORN. The only place I would be able to keep an unusable van is at my parents who live almost 200 miles from Bristol, so towing fees would be huge.

 

Would I be best off claiming for the potential towing fees in the original claim?

Is there any other way to resolve this issue?

Would you be able to offer me any advise on how to present and word my claim, and is there any advantage to a claim made offline?

 

[Manxman in exile]

When you say your letters were "... returned, refused" do you mean that you sent them recorded delivery  and they refused to sign for them, or do you just mean they rejected your claim?

 

For future reference - and you may still need to know it here - sending anything to someone that they are required to sign for is often a dead giveaway that it's something they won't want to receive - so they will refuse to accept it.  Probably better to send 1st class from a Post Office counter and get a free certificate of posting.  If you do that the Interpretation Act deems what you send to have been delivered two working days later - unless the addressee can prove they never received it.  As you can imagine, it is very very difficult for someone to prove they never received something sent to them.

 

I'm sure others will be along shortly to address your questions.

[johnonymous]

I mean that the letters were sent recorded delivery and they refused to sign for them.

[stu007]

What is the name of the person you are dealing with and the full address? (is the persons name Kashif Rehman just a guess a present)

[johnonymous]

The address bought the van from and sent the letters to is Number 5 Ashton Vale Rd, Bristol BS3 2HA.

I had just addressed the letters to the business name. 

Looking up Brunel at company house the name of the director and sole listed employee is Matthew Collins.  This site also shows that there was an extraordinary order to wind up and an appointment of a voluntary liquidator on June 3rd 2019. Is this likely to mean that there will be no way to get money back even with a court judgement?

 

[BankFodder]

Please can you tell us more about the faults. Have you had an independent assessment?

Also please can you tell us about the MOT. What date was it relative to the purchase date? What was the name of the MOT station and how far away are they from the dealers?

Also how far away do you live from the dealer who sold you this van?

[BankFodder]

Quote

 

https://www.freeindex.co.uk/profile(the-van-hub)_769303.htm

 

[BankFodder]

Have you checked previous MOT certificates relating to this vehicle?

[johnonymous]

I have, the van had a very good mot history. It was previously owned by British Airways, so the previous history seems plausible. I am guessing British Airways sold on a job lot of vans, as they were getting a bit long in the tooth and had a few problems. Brunel/van hub then inflated the value by getting a tame MOT guy to hand out passes without inspecting them

[dx100uk]

answer the questions please

 

dx

 

12 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Please can you tell us more about the faults. Have you had an independent assessment?

Also please can you tell us about the MOT. What date was it relative to the purchase date? What was the name of the MOT station and how far away are they from the dealers?

Also how far away do you live from the dealer who sold you this van?

 

[stu007]

Hi

 

Can you post the Companies House link you have?

[BankFodder]

You have got yourself into a mess. You come here for help getting out of the mess.

You can already see that there are a number of people who are interested in invested in your situation – but we ask you questions and you don't answer.
If you want to make some kind of headway on this then you can have to engage with this thread rather more closely and also deal with the questions which are put.

If not, then you had better stick with Citizens Advice.

 

[johnonymous]

Hi there.

To answer your questions.

The Assessment of the car I got was by the DVSA.

The 3 Dangerous faults.

Seatbelt webbing significantly weakened offside front.

Seatbelt webbing significantly weakened nearside front. Passengers seat insecure Nearside.

 

The Seven Dangerous Faults.

Headlamp aim obviously incorrect.

Supplementary restraint system indicates a fault

Drivers door hinge insecure

Fuel cap sealing device missing (cap seal missing)

Fuel Cap Sealing device ineffective (filler neck sealing face damaged)

Battery insecure and likely to cause a short circuit

Power steering malfunctioning (limited power assistance, power steering pump noisy)

 

2 advisories 

no spare wheel fitted

Tyre worn close to legal limit.

 

The link to Companies House

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08471137

 

The MOT was obtained on the 8th of October after I had paid a deposit and two days before I took possession of the vehicle.

The Garage the MOT was obtained from is in Bristol as is the dealer.

I live around 130 miles from the dealer.

 

I have engaged with the thread as far as possible with other commitments and did not notice the set of questions I did not reply to in my first post which was responded to at 1 in the morning. Any help is gratefully received.

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Well done on getting the assessment – that was a very good move.

Can you tell us what date that occurred? I'm really interested to know how soon after the date of the original MOT, how soon after the date that you took possession of the vehicle and how many miles you had done before the assessment was carried out.

No problem in putting a claim together here and on the basis of what you say, it will be slamdunk and you will have no difficulty winning.

The real problem here is enforcing and I'm afraid that with many of these car dealers, judgements are two a penny an enforcement becomes a real difficulty so that you end up with a judgement in your hand but out of pocket to the tune of the money you paid for the vehicle, any ancillary losses and also the cost of the claim fee because none of it can be recovered.

I'm trying to think of other strategies and I have something in mind.

I've asked you the name of the garage which provided the MOT but for some reason or other you haven't told us. Was that deliberate?

[johnonymous]

Thanks for the quick response.

Sorry I had missed that you had requested the name of the garage supplying the MOT, it was not deliberate.

 

The testing garage was Brislington mot centre on  Flowers Hill trading estate. 

I had driven the Van about 5 miles before the assessment was carried out. 

I took possession of the Van 2 days after the MOT

The DVSA assessed the vehicle 19 days after the MOT.

 

I had expected that winning a judgement was going to be more likely than enforcing it, especially after seeing the winding up order on the company. I am surprised that they are still allowed to trade years after going into liquidation. 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. As I've already intimated, getting a judgement against the dealer pose no problem but enforcement is like to be extremely difficult and probably impossible.

I'm wondering whether it's worth turning our sights on the MOT station. It would be an interesting and unusual exercise and a lot would depend on whether you would be prepared to take this very unconventional action which might also have its own difficulties – that of proving that the vehicle 19 days after the MOT was basically in the same condition as it was when it was MOT'd

Could you post up a copy of the assessment that you obtained please

[johnonymous]

Quote

Yes I would be happy to take action against the MOT station and will post the details of the assessment as soon as I get back home.  The whole reason that I did not really do my due diligence on the van was my belief that falsifying an MOT certificate had consequences and was pretty shocked to find that this does not really seem to be the case. I was also very frustrated at the idea that selling a car in a dangerous condition is a technically a criminal offence but was told that I cannot report it to anyone. It is in the jurisdiction of Trading Standards rather than the Police, but individuals can only report to Citizens Advice who may then report the matter to Trading Standards. As far as I can tell they have not and the people at the DVSA expressed surprise that Trading Standards had not been in touch. Regardless of whether I get any money back it would be good to stop these people selling cars that could kill.

 

Yes I would be happy to take action against the MOT station and will post the details of the assessment as soon as I get back home. 

 

The whole reason that I did not really do my due diligence on the van was my belief that falsifying an MOT certificate had consequences and was pretty shocked to find that this does not really seem to be the case.

 

I was also very frustrated at the idea that selling a car in a dangerous condition is a technically a criminal offence but was told that I cannot report it to anyone.

 

It is in the jurisdiction of Trading Standards rather than the Police, but individuals can only report to Citizens Advice who may then report the matter to Trading Standards.

 

As far as I can tell they have not and the people at the DVSA expressed surprise that Trading Standards had not been in touch.

 

Regardless of whether I get any money back it would be good to stop these people selling cars that could kill.

Edited January 24, 2022 by BankFodder
Restructured a solid block of text in order to make it readable

[BankFodder]

I think we need to see whether what you've got suggest that the MOT was a fake MOT – or at least carried out incorrectly.

If we feel that we can get a judge to accept that the 19 days from the original MOT was not so remote that the defects could have occurred during that time and therefore they must been present at the time of the original MOT, then we may have a basis for some interesting action.

Could you list out the defects please.
Have you had an assessment of the costs involved in addressing those defects?
Have you had a general assessment of the entire condition of the car?

[Manxman in exile]

53 minutes ago, johnonymous said:

 

...

 

It is in the jurisdiction of Trading Standards rather than the Police, but individuals can only report to Citizens Advice who may then report the matter to Trading Standards.

 

As far as I can tell they have not and the people at the DVSA expressed surprise that Trading Standards had not been in touch.

 

Regardless of whether I get any money back it would be good to stop these people selling cars that could kill.

 

Something for you to bear in mind later: if you haven't already raised this with CAB and you haven't asked them to refer it to TS, then do so.  And if TS appear to do nothing complain, to one (or even all) of your local county councillors.

 

Unfortunately TS are utterly hopeless in respect of any service they provide to the consumers and council tax payers who fund them.  I spent a year as a trainee TS inspector in the mid 1980s and they were crap then, even though it was still possible for members of the public to "walk in" and talk to someone for advice.  Now they're even worse apparently...

[johnonymous]

I am attaching a scan of the DVSA assessment.

Thus far I have not had a general assessment of the car or had an estimate to fix these costs. 

 

img20220124_18422025.pdfimg20220124_18422025.pdf

 

[johnonymous]

ManxMan I had asked the CAB to take this up with Trading Standards and nothing seems to have happened, so I will try getting in touch with the local councillors.

 

[Manxman in exile]

Looking at that DVSA report, isn't 65000 miles a bit low for a 06 plate van?

 

Or didn't British Airways use it much?

[BankFodder]

You will simply fatigue yourself with effort and false hope if you think that councillors are going to do anything. Exactly the same trading standards and citizens advice.

I'm sorry to say – but this is also for the benefit of others who visits this thread, that you have acted naïvely in purchasing this van in the first place and then thinking that there are organisations who will step in and help you to get you out of the mess that you have created for yourself.

Citizens advice, trading standards – and local councillors are not in the business of helping individuals in your kind of situation unless you happen to have a highly placed relative somewhere who can exert some influence.
I'm afraid that rely on these people or imagining that you can rely on these people simply give you false hope and eventually will fatigue you to the point where you give up.

The assessment you had done is extremely helpful. I hadn't heard that this was possible before so maybe you could let us know how one goes about this because we have lots of people here who have been ripped off having bought used cars – in exactly the same way that you have – and this kind of assessment is extremely useful and we should know about it so we can advise others.

How difficult was it to arrange? How much did it cost you?

I think you said earlier that you had only done 5 miles on the vehicle before it started demonstrating the defects. What is the mileage on the MOT certificate which was produced for you before you took possession of the vehicle?

Please could you put up a scan of that
 

[johnonymous]

I think that the biggest problem I had was in having faith in the legal system vis a vis dangerous cars.

 

Initially I contacted DVLA who gave me a number for the DVSA.

The DVSA listened to my story and promised a call back, but no call back was forthcoming.

After this I emailed the DVSA and this time did get a call back from a very helpful employee who after listening to my story from the start said that by the time these incidents arrive at his desk they have been diluted by the admin process. They came out to where the Van was as the Van did not run by this point due to the battery fault.

 

The Van has 11 miles on it in between the MOT being issued and my having a test on it, I'll get you a scan as soon as possible.

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you very much indeed for the above.

It might be very helpful to us in the future if we could have the contact details et cetera of the person or people the you spoke to in order to organise this assessment.

If it is possible to send them to me in confidence at our admin email address I'd be very grateful.

As you can imagine we have lots of instances of this and I wouldn't mind speaking to that person and to see if any arrangement can be agreed.

In confidence – to our admin email address