@sp_energypeople Scottish Power

[Mike_hawk]

To which I responded:

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxx

To: dirsupp@scottishpower.com

Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 12:33

Subject: Re: Customer Name – xxxxxxxxxx Compla i n t Number xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Nicola

 

As the business had already issued a letter of deadlock the EO is currently handling the matter, I am awaiting its draft correspondence for proofing prior to its engagement with SP.

 

I have had the misfortune of listening to the same trite nonsense from your customer service operative [Katie] at 24th February 2015, absolutely disgusted by her behaviour.

 

You seem to be of the belief that the terms of gas supply contract may be dismissed by the business at will. As previously stated, I require those terms of contract to be adhered to, by SP moving the account to its standard terms it effectively puts the cart before the horse.

 

Where no direct debit is due it cannot fail to be paid until a future date, in this instance 10th March 2015

 

I refer you to SP's email of 19th February 2015... please note the past tense 'were not able', this statement is wholly inaccurate and misleading as the business had drawn down all direct debits to account when each were due. In case of any misunderstanding on your part, if I were to cancel the direct debt facility at 9th March 2015 would the business attempt to backdate the move of account to 17th February 2015...... the effect of cancelling the facility would remain the same as it would be effected within the same 28 day period when no payments were due and by interpolation could not fail during that period.

 

By applying the terms of contract it does not matter when I decide to cancel the direct debit facility if that cancellation falls between payment dates. The one thing the business cannot do [without breaching the contract] is to move the account until such time that there is a failure to pay when due.

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Scottish Power

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:09

Subject: Important information - Your Direct Debit arrangement has been cancelled

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

 

As we were not able to collect your payments by Direct Debit, we've changed the way you pay for your energy. This means you now need to pay quarterly on receipt of your bill.

 

Details of this change and how to pay any arrears can be found in my messages.

 

 

SP's terms of supply allow for the following:

 

If you fail to make a payment

 

If you fail to make a payment to ScottishPower under your payment method when it is

due, we shall be entitled to transfer you from the tariff prices onto our Standard tariff

prices, and change your payment method to an appropriate cash payment method.

To consider the impact on your prices and terms and conditions should this transfer

occur, please visit our website and review our current Standard domestic tariff leaflet

in the Energy Product section at http://www.scottishpower.co.uk We will notify you of any

changes to your payment method and prices should this be necessary.

 

 

 

By interpretation, the business cannot [contractually] move the account until such time that a direct debit falls unpaid when due. The business seems to have an illogical interpretation whereby it believes it can move the account in order to create a direct debit failure....... as I said, 'cart before horse'.

 

SP's actions also appear contrary to a combination of SLC 22C.9, 22C.11B & 23.1 for Domestic contracts.

 

Whilst the EO's terms of reference do not seem to prescribe adherence to the SLC or intervention procedures in regard to past/historical mistakes by the business, please be assured that I will pursue the matter until I am satisfied that SP has acted correctly.

 

It seems extraordinary that the business [for all of its bluster] cannot and will not identify the contractual term within its domestic supply contract which refers to moving the account prior to a failure of direct debit. Perhaps because it does not exist, perhaps the business is too bloody minded in its approach to clients that is has forgotten what customer service is and has become inured in the belief that it does not need to engage or risk manage complaints such as this.

 

Please ensure you now supply the reference to the term [or terms] within the contract which SP relies upon in moving the account prior to 10th March 2015

 

Best regards

[TerryA]

Following email addresses are all functioning if they assist anyone with similar issues: keith.anderson at scottishpower.com CC: colin.mcneill at scottishpower.com; sheila.duncan at scottishpower.com; neil.clitheroe at scottishpower.com

 

 

I emailed Neil Clitheroe and Keith Anderson last week Thursday and on Saturday I got bounce backs from both saying the addresses could not be found.

 

My problem is sort of reversed. I chased after Scottish Power for six months and finally got a bill which was large and I could not afford to pay all at once. They agreed to to split payments. When I went to pay the second half, lo and behold my account says I owed £0.00. I was on the phone for 48 minutes with Customer Services who insisted that there was nothing for me to pay! Nearly £500 had been settled on my account. It hasn't come from my bank account and they say it was not written off. Puzzled.

 

I would love a functioning address for Neil Clitheroe.

[Mike_hawk]

Both worked for me up to the 25th, perhaps they have changed address format if they've ended up with a multitude of complaints

 

SP did the same with the chief exec complaints dump mail account over christmas and changed to the dirsupp one above......... I guess if you received the level of complaints that SP seems to you'd be constantly looking for ways to adjust your mail servers and accounts.

 

Just tried KA's email and its working for me....... or at least its not bouncing back with a server error?

 

I had a similar [ish] problem to yours with Southern Water about 5 years ago, I kept telling it that my direct debits weren't being taken, it kept telling me everything was fine and the account was up to date....... 3 months of arguing later it sent me a final demand for the money that I'd been trying to get it to take - you couldn't make it up! Fortunately I'd retained call recordings and it went away with its tail between its legs and a £90.00 'goodwill gesture' in the post to me.

[TerryA]

Thanks Mike.

 

I'll try again. If you do get a bounce two days from now, do let me know. That's how long it too for the error message to be returned.

 

Terry

[Mike_hawk]

Still working......... email server, not the jokers at SP

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To: Maggie.Carr@ScottishPower.com

CC: keith.anderson@scottishpower.com

Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 13:12

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxxxxxxx - CCO Complaint

 

Well, we now seem to have moved on from the inaccurate to the laughable......

 

Your staff have now moved from this statement [wholly inaccurate and misleading]:

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Scottish Power

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:09

Subject: Important information - Your Direct Debit arrangement has been cancelled

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

As we were not able to collect your payments by Direct Debit, we've changed the way you pay for your energy. This means you now need to pay quarterly on receipt of your bill.

 

Details of this change and how to pay any arrears can be found in my messages.

 

 

 

To this:

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Dirsupp

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 11:37

Subject: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Complaint Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

If you need to respond to this email, please reply directly to this e-mail address without changing the subject line or including any other e-mail addresses as this may delay our response to you and resolution of your enquiry.

 

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your email.

 

As you have cancelled your direct debit with your bank, you have cancelled your contract with ScottishPower. As you have cancelled your contract you have automatically been moved to our standard rates. This happens immediately that we receive the cancellation notice from your bank. We would be unable to collect a payment unless we created a new direct debit instruction.

 

 

Oddly; the only breach of contract is the effect of SP moving the account prior to a failure of direct debit draw down.

 

I note from previous conversations with SP's staff that this is common practice, ergo the business routinely breaches its supply contracts and overcharges its clients.

 

Whilst the matter is with the EO and I await its slow and apologetic attempt to draft the complaint for proofing I am concerned that the business may be abusing its license conditions.

 

I have now requested on 7 occasions for copies of terms of supply [or general terms in conjunction with] which afford the business the contractual remedy to move the account to its standard tariff in advance of a failure to pay by direct debit......... the business persists in its desire to ignore this request. Those contractual terms available within its online portal do not prescribe this remedy

 

I appreciate I may have been coerced by the business into a tad of a rant in response to Nicola but the crux of the matter persists........... if the business insists upon enjoying the benefit of increased charges to the account I must insist that it defines the contractual terms which it relies upon.

 

Please now provide the contractual term [or terms] which the business relies upon in moving the account to its standard tariff prior to the following event:

 

If you fail to make a payment to ScottishPower under your payment method when it is

due, we shall be entitled to transfer you from the tariff prices onto our Standard tariff

prices, and change your payment method to an appropriate cash payment method.

To consider the impact on your prices and terms and conditions should this transfer

occur, please visit our website and review our current Standard domestic tariff leaflet

in the Energy Product section at http://www.scottishpower.co.uk We will notify you of any

changes to your payment method and prices should this be necessary.

 

Regards

 

xxxxxxxxxx

[TerryA]

Still working......... email server, not the jokers at SP

 

 

Thanks Mike. I got a form-letter type response yesterday which said they would respond within 10 days. I had to send from a different email address to get through.

 

Terry

[caro]

Looks like SP have had their wrists slapped.

 

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31728249

[Mike_hawk]

Hmmmm, been coming for a while........ if its front line customer service agents can't act correctly I have my doubts that 500 untrained sales staff will make much of a difference. The capacity to mislead and/or act contrary to any semblance of a fair relationship can only be board driven. The tendency is for staff to tow the party line and state its company policy to do whatever is being complained of.

 

I have a feeling I will never get a full response to my complaint, I can't imagine it would be commercially prudent to make an open admission that it habitually overcharges accounts. The ombudsman is painfully slow, poor little lamb at the EO has spent 3 days trying to put the complaint down on paper but for some reason is swamped with other SP complaints at the moment.

[Mike_hawk]

Received first draft complaint form this morning......... seemed to totally misinterpret the problem?

 

Responded with the following and currently waiting for the EO to redraft and let me know what it will [or won't] include.

 

 

 

xxxxxxxx has a complaint with Scottish Power, the issues are as follows:

 

• He initially contacted Scottish Power in November 2014 regarding a combination of unreturned credit on his account

of £xxxxx and increased demand of direct debit payment.

 

• xxxxxxxx states that the issue was partially resolved and a good will gesture was issued to him.

 

• xxxxxxxx states the remedy involved a move to a fixed rate Tariff in order to effect the return of credit and setting direct debit at consumption level, he agreeing with Scottish Power to move the account to a fixed rate tariff.[Online Fixed Price Energy January 2016]

 

. xxxxxxxx states he was assured by Scottish Power that any inherent debit balance at first spring read 2015 would not

affect payment demands. It being agreed that the known consumption would provide ScottishPower with a reconciled balance of account at 6 and 12 month cycles. He was further assured there would be no repeat of issues at November 2014

 

. In the event, xxxxxxxx states that at February 2015 meter read and the resultant small debit balance the demand placed upon the direct debit facility was increased by circa 40%. This, by ScottishPowers own calculations, to give rise to a credit balance of circa £xxxxx at June 2015 and further increasing to some £6xxxx at August 2015. Ergo, a repeat of the initial matter complained of at November 2014

 

• xxxxxxxx states he cancelled the direct debit facility at 17th February 2015 as a result of the business declining to respond in a timely manner. This being 7 days post draw down of February payment and some 21 days prior to the next demand to be placed upon the facility.

 

. xxxxxxxx states that as a result of that cancellation ScottishPower have moved his account to its Standard Tariff and increased pricing.

 

. xxxxxxxx states that this move is in breach of his gas supply contract as it provides no contractual relief to ScottishPower to move the account prior to a future failed direct debit event.

 

. xxxxxxxx states ScottishPower has declined to identify the contractual remedy it relies upon and has alternately and inaccurately suggested that it (i) has moved the account as it was unable to draw down a direct debit in February, (ii) it will be unable to draw down a direct debit in the future and (iii) by virtue of the direct debit facility being cancelled the contract between xxxxxxxx and it is broken.

 

. xxxxxxxx states that none of the above positions are contained within the gas supply contract or Scottishpowers general terms and conditions. xxxxxxxxx believes ScottishPower is being creative and obstructive.

 

. xxxxxxxx States that ScottishPower declines to identify the contractual term or terms which it relies upon.

 

• Scottish Power issued a deadlock letter on the 13 January 2015.

 

• xxxxxxxx advised that he has received poor customer service throughout the complaint and has not had

any meaningful response to any correspondence.

 

.xxxxxxxx has made a reasonable effort to resolve the complaint with Scottish Power by telephone and in

email and has received a letter of deadlock.

 

As a resolution xxxxxxxx would like Scottish Power to:

 

• provide a written apology for the shortfalls in customer service:

 

• confirm that the billing issue has been resolved and identify the term [or terms] within the

contract of supply which it incorrectly sought to rely upon in moving xxxxxxxx account to its standard tariff

 

• provide a good will gesture for the shortfalls in customer service.

[Mike_hawk]

I thought I should add in a shorter post [reading this dross can get a bit boring] that the Ombudsman has a separate line for SP complaints. All other calls get diverted via option #1 and SP has its own # option, must make it feel all warm and fuzzy inside to know that it's top dog in complaints

[Mike_hawk]

Post #35 has now been reduced to the EO's 2000 character template........ not entirely sure why 2000 characters but at least it gets the main thrust of the complaint across:

 

xxxxxx has a complaint with Scottish Power, the issues are as follows:

• xxxxxxxxxx states that he contacted Scottish Power in November 2014 regarding its decision to increase his

direct debit whilst his account was showing to be £xxx in credit.

• He states that the issue was partially resolved and a good will gesture was issued to him.

• He states that it was also agreed that his account was to be moved onto a fixed rate tariff and that his

direct debit would be adjusted to best reflect his usage.

• He states that he was assured that any debit balances showing at the start of 2015 would not affect the

agreed direct debit amount.

• He states that he was also assured that no further mistakes would occur.

• He states that in February 2015 after further meter readings were provided a small debt had incurred on

the account.

• He states that despite being advised that his direct debit would not be affected it then subsequently

increased his direct debit.

• He states that due to concerns that the credit balance would increase he cancelled his direct debit, this has

resulted in him being automatically placed on a standard tariff.

• He states that it has failed to adhere to its contractual terms and conditions.

• He states that it had issued a deadlock letter on the 13 January 2015.

• He states that he is unhappy with the customer service throughout the complaint, and has not had any

response to any correspondence.

xxxxxx has made a reasonable effort to resolve the complaint with Scottish Power by telephone and

email.

As a resolution xxxxxxxxxx would like Scottish Power to:

• provide a written apology for the shortfalls in customer service;

• confirm that the billing issue has been resolved;

• place his account back on the correct rate and confirm that this has been done ; and

• provide a good will gesture for the shortfalls in customer service.

[Mike_hawk]

........... and if helps anyone in the future, here's the standard response

 

Dear xxxxxx

Thank you for your signed complaint form, which we received on 10 March 2015.

We have asked the company you are complaining about to send us its information about your

complaint. When we have this an investigation officer will contact you to talk about the best way

to resolve your problem.

We aim to resolve your complaint within six to eight weeks from the date we received your

signed complaint form.

For more information about Ombudsman Services visit our website

http://www.ombudsman-services.org

Yours sincerely

[steviehowie]

Mike

 

 

have you had a look at some of the following:-

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

Sale of goods Act 1982

I am assuming that you where never issued terms and conditions ( T & C's) primary or secondary at the onset of contract?

The problem with reference to a web site T & C's these will be updated and the one you look at today may not have been the one applicable at the onset of contract. It's a thought with reference to the above UK laws.

Also if SP sold over the phone try the distance SELLING REGS as an alternative route.

also the following SLC might help:-

 

 

 

SLC 2.6

 

 

 

 

 

 

SECTION B: STANDARD CONDITIONS FOR DOMESTIC SUPPLIERS

 

 

Condition 22. Duty to offer and supply under Domestic Supply Contract

 

 

Licensee’s obligations

 

 

22.1 If the licensee supplies electricity to Domestic Premises, it must do so under a Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract.

 

 

22.2 Within a reasonable period of time after receiving a request from a Domestic Customer for a supply of electricity to Domestic Premises, the licensee must offer to enter into a Domestic Supply Contract with that customer.

 

 

22.4 A Domestic Supply Contract must:

 

 

(a) be in Writing; and

 

 

(b) include all the terms and conditions for the supply of electricity, including:

 

 

(i) a term separately identifying the Charges for the Supply of Electricity and the charge for any other good or service to be provided; and

 

 

(ii) a term reflecting the provisions of standard condition 24 (Termination of Domestic Supply Contracts) in relation to the ending of the contract in the circumstances set out there.

 

 

SLC 22.5 A Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract with a Domestic Customer entered into or negotiated on or after the day after the day on which the Electricity and Gas (Internal Markets) Regulations 2011 are made must include:

 

 

(a) the identity and address of the licensee;

 

 

(b) the services provided, including any maintenance services provided, and any service quality levels that are to be met;

 

 

© if a connection is required, when that connection will take place;

 

 

(d) the means by which up to date information on all applicable tariffs and maintenance charges may be obtained;

 

 

(e) any conditions for renewal of the Domestic Supply Contract;

 

 

(f) any compensation and refund arrangements which apply if contracted quality service levels are not met, including inaccurate and delayed billing; and

 

 

(g) information concerning the Domestic Customer’s rights as regards the means of dispute settlement available to them in the event of a dispute with the licensee including how dispute resolution procedures can be initiated

 

 

With respect to contact also look at the Electricity and Gas ( Internal markets ) regs 2011 schedule 2 and schedule 8.

 

 

SCHEDULE 2

Duties of electricity distribution exemption holders and supply exemption holders

 

 

namely

Customer contracts

4. (1) Where a supply exemption holder enters into a contract with a household customer for the supply of electricity it must provide the customer with a copy of the contract.

(2) The contract must specify—

(a)the identity and address of the supply exemption holder;

(b)the services provided, including any maintenance services provided;

©any service quality levels that are to be met;

(d)if a connection is required, when that connection will take place;

(e)the means by which up-to-date information may be obtained about—

(i)any applicable tariffs and maintenance charges; and

(ii)the supply exemption holder’s standard terms and conditions;

(f)the duration of the contract;

 

 

(g)any conditions for renewal of the contract;

 

 

(h)any conditions for termination of the contract or of any services provided under it and whether the customer can terminate the contract if the supply exemption holder increases the applicable tariffs or charges, or changes one or more of the main contractual conditions;

 

 

(i)any charges for early termination of the contract;

 

 

(j)any compensation and refund arrangements which apply if any service quality levels specified in the contract are not met, including any arrangements which apply in the event of inaccurate or delayed billing;

 

 

(k)the methods of dispute resolution available to the customer in the event of a dispute with the supply exemption holder, including how such dispute resolution procedures can be initiated; and

 

(l)where further information on the customer’s rights as a consumer of electricity can be found.

 

 

 

(l)where further information on the customer’s rights as a consumer of electricity can be found.

Did you get all of this info at the time? Many do not might be your breach of an implied or express terms of contract.

Equally

 

 

 

 

 

 

SCHEDULE 8

 

 

Modification of standard conditions of licences granted under the Electricity Act 1989

 

 

“Domestic terms

 

 

22.5. A Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract with a Domestic Customer entered into or negotiated on or after the day after the day on which the Electricity and Gas (Internal Markets) Regulations 2011 are made must include:

 

 

(a)the identity and address of the licensee;

 

 

(b)the services provided, including any maintenance services provided, and any service quality levels that are to be met;

 

 

©if a connection is required, when that connection will take place;

 

 

(d)the means by which up to date information on all applicable tariffs and maintenance charges may be obtained;

 

 

(e)any conditions for renewal of the Domestic Supply Contract;

 

 

(f)any compensation and refund arrangements which apply if contracted quality service levels are not met, including inaccurate and delayed billing; and

 

 

(g)information concerning the Domestic Customer’s rights as regards the means of dispute settlement available to them in the event of a dispute with the licensee including how dispute resolution procedures can be initiated.”;

Once again my experience is the do not send this information out , despite it been in 2 parts of the 2011 regs and or the Standard licence conditions pursuant to the Electricity Act 1989 and as amended by the Utilities Act 2000.

 

 

It also occurs to me the question you have set about the cart before the horse etc, have you put it up on the legal forum and asked just the simple question there without the history and allow the legal boys to reply? Just a thought.

My experience of the EO is he is a waste of time has no regulatory and or enforcement powers, EO will take at face value everything that SP say is true even if it is not, and be aware you are not bound by any decision the EO gives although a judge will ask that as his first question if you got to court. So best of luck with that route.

 

 

One final point be aware what contract SP say you are now under i.e I assume that it is a deemed contract because they have changed you?

If you continue to use electricity you have a contract. So ask them for the actual words of the deemed contract or whatever the imply you are under.

Energy companies keep this contract back to the day of the court hearing and lie that deemed contracts are applicable, cause you used the electricity in the interim.

 

 

Ask for the new contract full T & C from SP immediately.

 

 

Stevie H

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Condition 23. Notification of Domestic Supply Contract terms

 

 

Notification of Principal Terms

 

 

23.1 Before it enters into a Domestic Supply Contract with a Domestic Customer, (or, where applicable, before any mutual variation of a Domestic Supply Contract is agreed with a Domestic Customer pursuant to standard condition 23A), the licensee must take (and ensure that any Representative takes) all reasonable steps to communicate the Principal Terms of the Domestic Supply Contract (which in the case of a mutual variation must cover the Principal Terms that will apply as a result of that variation and any Principal Terms of the current Domestic Supply Contract that are not affected by the mutual variation) to that Domestic Customer and ensure that the Principal Terms are communicated (or, where they are provided in Writing, drafted) in plain and intelligible language.

 

 

Notification

 

 

 

 

Condition 23A. Mutual variations

 

 

23A.1 This condition applies to any mutual variation or proposed mutual variation to the terms of a Domestic Supply Contract

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike_hawk]

Thanks for the input Stevie, I have original contract and original general t's & c's from inception and downloaded again at date of complaint......... to be frank, it's likely to overcharge me no more than about £50.00 which whilst I'm not indifferent to, I could just as easily recalculate at correct rate, place the balance in dispute and tell it to jog on.......... or I could just sue it on breach [as is the case].... or drag it out for a few more weeks with the EO and push it for as much disclosure as it feels inclined to reduce to writing and then sue it.

 

My motivation is fairly straightforward - #1- it peed me off and #2 if it succeeds in skimming my account for £50.00 and seems to think all is well in the world it begs the question of how much revenue does it generate across all accounts by the same/similar methods and should I take a few minutes out of my day to keep pushing the issue?

[Mike_hawk]

I have never known a business to back down when confronted. I really don't expect this one to act any differently but its always useful to hold a chain of correspondence...... why would it admit to overcharging? There's certainly no commercial benefit that comes to mind

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From:

To: dirsupp@scottishpower.com

CC: keith.anderson@scottishpower.com; Maggie.Carr@ScottishPower.com

Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 20:43

Subject: Fwd: Customer Name – xxxxxxx Co mpla i n t Number xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Nicola

 

I still appear to be waiting for confirmation of the contractual remedy SP has relied upon in moving my account to an inflated tariff prior to 10th March 2015.

 

Inclusive of this, the information has been requested on 8 separate occasions post 24th February 2015. The response should not be difficult for the business, either the contract of supply contains the term/s allowing it relief or it does not. The straightforward response would seem to be to attach a copy of the contract with the relevant term or terms hi-lited. This surely has to be a far more cost effective means of managing the complaint if the business is certain of its position. I am struggling to understand what purpose the business could have for denying me a meaningful response and allowing such a seemingly straightforward matter to escalate.

 

For your records and in the event of any future litigation; meter reads for today [this being the final date of fixed rate tariff per contract] are as follows:

 

Gas: xxxxxx - equating to xxxxxxkwh consumption [15/02/2015 - 10/03/2015] - Jan '16 fixed rate provides for charges of £xxxx incl of VAT

Electric: xxxxxx - equating to xxxkwh consumption [15/02/2015 - 10/03/2015] - Jan '16 fixed rate provides for charges of £xxxx incl of VAT

 

I note the incorrectly applied standard online tariff for the above period equates to Gas consumption of £xxxx & £xxxx for Electric, this being a circa 30% lift, contrary to, and in clear breach of the contractual terms.

 

Please ensure the period noted is charged at the Jan '16 fixed rate tariff per our contract, consumption post 10th March 2015 thru to transfer to xxxxxxxx at 23rd March 2015 will of course be accepted at the grossly inflated standard online tariff which SP has previously obliged me of.

 

Regards

[Mike_hawk]

Not sure what to make of this, not an admission as such, certainly not a goodwill gesture and short of a guarantee standard payment?

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Dirsupp

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:03

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxx - Ongoing CCO Complaint

 

See below for your response from your dedicated customer complaints advisor

 

We want to resolve your enquiry as soon as possible. If you need to respond to this email, please reply directly to this e-mail address without changing the subject line or including any other e-mail addresses as this may delay our response to you and resolution of your enquiry.

 

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your contact.

 

I am unable to view the attached word document that you have advised was included on your previous email.

 

Your supply transfer date was 23 February 2015, when the meter readings are received via electronic flow from your new supplier we will arrange closure of account and I will check the account is billed on the previous direct debit prices. If the account does bill on standard prices I will manually credit the account with the difference.

 

If you require further assistance please contact us.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

Miss J McDonnell

 

Directors Support Team

 

________________________________________

 

From: xxxxxxxxxx

Sent: 28 February 2015 23:35

To: Carr, Maggie

Cc: Anderson, Keith S

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxxx - CCO Complaint

[Mike_hawk]

I responded anyway as the correspondence appeared a tad disjointed

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

To: dirsupp@scottishpower.com

CC: Maggie.Carr@ScottishPower.com

Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:44

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxxxx - Ongoing CCO Complaint **Please read this email prior to responding any further**

 

Dear Miss McDonnell

 

It appears that responses are somewhat out of kilter, you have replied to an email addressed to Maggie some 11 days ago in which period I have no received no meaningful response from the business

 

The attachment; this would not be accessible if Maggie did not attach when forwarding the content of the email to you, although I am sure she would be able to supply you with a copy if required.

 

Supply transfer; the information I have is transfer date of 23rd March 2015 [not 23rd February], checked with xxxxx this evening.

 

Whilst I am grateful that the business has now made some headway in resolving the matter, perhaps for the sake of everyone's sanity it would be sensible to review and archive all previous correspondence and start afresh with the company's stated position re: contractual tariff and implementation date of standard online rates.

 

From memory there are 2 additional emails addressed to Maggie which will probably be referred to you in chronological order over the course of the next 2 weeks, this will possibly add to the confusion and is likely to be compounded by the involvement of the EO and its complaint process which I understand was initiated yesterday

 

I have copied Maggie and noted the subject line of this email in the hope that you are able to reconcile all correspondence with the complaint prior to the business responding further

 

I honestly do not mind if it takes a few days to respond, so long as I am made aware of the timescale and that response is accurate, addressing all matters

 

Best regards

[Mike_hawk]

Received an enquiry from the regulator yesterday afternoon and responded as follows:

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To: xxxxxx.xxxxx@ofgem.gov.uk

Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 14:12

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your enquiry

 

For background; I have/had an issue with a supplier late last year in that it withheld a substantial credit balance on account, this was ultimately partially resolved [not entirely satisfactorily] by way of refund and a small goodwill gesture equivalent to its guarantee standards payment.

 

This year, and seemingly due to a convoluted and inadequate algorithm for calculating consumption, it again attempted to create a sizable credit balance; this from its own calculations would result in a credit balance of some 100 days consumption by June 2015.

 

Not being inclined to enter into the same extended game of letter/email/telephone tennis to recover the credit again this year I opted for a transfer to another supplier [this to be effected at 23rd March 2015]

 

In the event, I took the decision to cancel the direct debt facility to the account at 17th February 2015 [the facility having previously been drawn upon some 7 days prior at 10th February 2015], the effect of which was to prompt an automated and wholly disingenuous response from the business [below]:

 

From: Scottish Power

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:09

Subject: Important information - Your Direct Debit arrangement has been cancelled

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx,

 

As we were not able to collect your payments by Direct Debit, we've changed the way you pay for your energy. This means you now need to pay quarterly on receipt of your bill.

 

Details of this change and how to pay any arrears can be found in my messages.

 

 

The act of it moving the account being contrary to the term [below] it sought to rely upon, for want of a better description it sought to put the cart before the horse and increase consumption charges by circa 30% contrary to the contractual terms of supply:

 

 

If you fail to make a payment

 

If you fail to make a payment to ScottishPower under your payment method when it is

due, we shall be entitled to transfer you from the tariff prices onto our Standard tariff

prices, and change your payment method to an appropriate cash payment method.

To consider the impact on your prices and terms and conditions should this transfer

occur, please visit our website and review our current Standard domestic tariff leaflet

in the Energy Product section at http://www.scottishpower.co.uk We will notify you of any

changes to your payment method and prices should this be necessary.

 

After much correspondence the business altered its position and provided the following explanation:

 

From: Dirsupp

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 11:37

Subject: Customer Name – xxxxxxxxx Complaint Number xxxxxxxxxx

 

If you need to respond to this email, please reply directly to this e-mail address without changing the subject line or including any other e-mail addresses as this may delay our response to you and resolution of your enquiry.

 

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your email.

 

As you have cancelled your direct debit with your bank, you have cancelled your contract with ScottishPower. As you have cancelled your contract you have automatically been moved to our standard rates. This happens immediately that we receive the cancellation notice from your bank. We would be unable to collect a payment unless we created a new direct debit instruction.

 

You have been charged the correct rate from 17 February when you moved to the standard rate. If you are unhappy with our explanation the next step would be for you to refer your complaint to the Energy Ombudsman. Please refer to the letter that was sent on 13 January and which I have copied below.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Nicola Crosby

Directors Support Team

 

 

On receipt I again questioned why it had changed position and why this term could also not be found within the supply contract nor its general terms and conditions, its response appeared to change position yet again [incorrect transfer date within has been addressed]:

 

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxx - Ongoing CCO Complaint

 

See below for your response from your dedicated customer complaintsicon advisor

 

We want to resolve your enquiry as soon as possible. If you need to respond to this email, please reply directly to this e-mail address without changing the subject line or including any other e-mail addresses as this may delay our response to you and resolution of your enquiry.

 

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your contact.

 

I am unable to view the attached word document that you have advised was included on your previous email.

 

Your supply transfer date was 23 February 2015, when the meter readings are received via electronic flow from your new supplier we will arrange closure of account and I will check the account is billed on the previous direct debit prices. If the account does bill on standard prices I will manually credit the account with the difference.

 

If you require further assistance please contact us.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Miss J McDonnell

 

Directors Support Team

 

 

There has been much telephone correspondence during the intervening dates and the crux of the issue appears to be that its accounting system is not sufficiently programmed to differentiate between a past and future event. In this instance the automated function was to transfer the account to an inflated tariff some 21 days prior to the event which it relied upon [that being the failure to pay by direct debit when due at 10th March 2015].

 

It appears in simplifying the functionality of its accounting it moves accounts on a predetermined event [notification of cancelled direct facility] instead of the contractual term [failure to pay when due]

 

Whilst I am certain that I will receive financial satisfaction in this instance, I am concerned that I can find no regulatory mechanism within its SLC's whereby it must report any accounting/operating practices which are wholly contrary to contract and financially detrimental to the consumer. Nor does it appear to be under an obligation to correct the matter at source; alternate programming or amendment to existing contracts of supply by consent...... one would believe the latter being the commercial preference.

 

I have no doubt that it must inherently overcharge its clients in the event of cancelled direct debit facility, this being much the simplest way for consumers to take some control of SP's inflated demands at draw down. Whether this occurs at 1 day post drawn down or 30 days, it has no contractual remedy to move the account during the intervening period of paying when due and failing to pay in the future.

 

Whilst this is very much in the first instance and I understand that it is not the regulators usual position to intervene in such cases, I firmly believe that it is important for me as an individual consumer to ensure that the business acts correctly and according to its regulatory remit in addressing all issues flowing from the matter

 

I trust this information assists in your enquiry but please advise should you require anything further, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

Best regards

[citizenB]

They have a contact us page - https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/contact-us

 

Here you go.

[Mike_hawk]

Here you go.

 

Hi Cb

 

Sorry, think there may have been a misunderstanding........ the consumer affairs manager at Ofgem contacted me, not entirely sure as yet what prompted it?

 

There's a rider within her email stating the content cannot be copied to any other person or organisation, hence just my response and the obliteration of her email addy in the above

[citizenB]

Oh right, sorry..

[Mike_hawk]

Just an update........ might help someone in the future

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxx

To: dirsupp@scottishpower.com; xxxxxx@os-energy.org;

CC: Maggie.Carr@ScottishPower.com; keith.anderson@scottishpower.com

BCC: xxxxxxxxxxui@ofgem.gov.uk

Sent: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 15:24

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxx - Ongoing CCO Complaint / Ombudsman Services complaint form - Ref xxxxxxxxxx

 

Dear Keith/Maggie [DEAR EO - PLEASE PRINT AND FILE IN THE ABOVE CASE]

 

I note the business addressed the matter of Gas account at 24th March 2015, final billing being available to view some 9 days later online at 2nd April 2015

 

Whilst I appreciate the quantum now accurately reflects the correct tariff I was disappointed to note that SP had reinstated a direct debit facility and drawn down £xxx.00 from my current account without authority. I can only assume that SP's all singing and all dancing accounts system is unable to distinguish between manual intervention and an automated process, the alternative would seem to be that there are no protections in place for the consumer.

 

We seem to have re-entered the realms of SP's contractual remedy/comedy of errors which I believed had been resolved. For your records, I have once again recalled the facility along with the £xxx.00 in line with the indemnity scheme. I understood I had been clear on the matter, SP has no authority to draw down any funds from my banking account, this position will not change.

 

I understand the Ombudsman has made 2 enquires in the preceding month to SP regarding this case, to date the business has declined to respond.

 

Please note that when SP is in a position to issue final billing for the Electricity account and, when I am satisfied that it accurately reflects the correct tariff, both supply accounts will be settled forthwith. In the meantime I can only trust that the business engages with the Ombudsman and resolves all matters to my satisfaction

 

Regards

[Mike_hawk]

Should it really be this bl**dy difficult?

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From:

To: xxxxxxxx@ovoenergy.com

CC: exxxxxxxxxos-energy.org; xxxxx@ofgem.gov.uk; xxxxx@ScottishPower.com; xxxxxxxxxxx@scottishpower.com

Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 1:11

Subject: Re: xxxxxxxx a/c xxxxxx/ / Ombudsman Services complaint form - Ref xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx/Ofgem Ref:0010000xxxx

 

 

Dear xxxxxx [EO - print and file in the above case]

 

In order to assist I have now attached closing statement SP Gas account at 22nd March 2015 which OVO to date fail to acknowledge transfer of supply

 

I also attach OVO estimated usage for Electricity supply at 14th April 2015 which to date SP have failed to transfer.

 

Clearly something is amiss, both positions cannot be correct but I [the consumer] am suffering damage in bringing this matter to the notice of the businesses on multiple occasions.

 

Perhaps 1 could talk to the other, perhaps SP is a special case and talks to nobody?...... without a sensible response the assumption must be that both suppliers are inept

 

I am struggling to understand why I should pay OVO for the supply of both gas and electricity yet it cannot logically supply me with electricity as SP retains the account, nor can it supply Gas as it does not recognise the metered supply.

 

According to OVO my consumption for electricity is £x.xx per day, according to SP the account has not yet transferred??

 

According to OVO my consumption for Gas is £0.00 per day, according to SP this account transferred to OVO at 22nd March 2015??

 

To be frank, I am more than happy to pursue SP in the matter if it can be shown by OVO or any other party that it [sP] is obstructive, acts unfairly or is otherwise at fault.

 

Any monies drawn down to the benefit of OVO whilst not supplying will of course be required refunded forthwith

 

 

Regards

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

[Mike_hawk]

Note the response times from Ofgem and OVO and the stark contrast in customer [dis]service from Scottish Power

 

 

OVO first, answered the question at day 1

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxx@ovoenergy.com

Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 14:07

Subject: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

Hello xxxxxx,

 

 

Thanks for getting in touch.

 

 

I can confirm both your supplies came over to us on 23/03. The national database confirms this too.

 

 

The reason your gas isn't showing on My Ovo yet is because we are still waiting on the validated reading back from the third party Data Collector. When opening meter readings are submitted they are sent off to be validated by a third party and then come back to us and go back to your old supplier. This process can take up to 6 weeks but we should have that back soon and then your gas account will be live. We are supplying you gas though.

 

 

In regards to your electricity, we have taken over your supply (supply number/ MPAN number is 190000xxxxxxx) You can use this to check with Scottish Power. The validated reading has come back for your electricity and this is xxxxx. This is the same as the reading you submitted on 18/03.

 

 

Hope this helps clears everything up.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Two star accreditation - Best Companies 2014

 

OVO Energy

 

 

Closely followed by Ofgem....... same day again although have had to redact the content - to be fair, I've totally obliterated it but the response time was the important bit

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxx

To: 'xxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:02

Subject: RE: xxxxxxxxxxx

 

xxxxxxxxx

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Kind Regards,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

9 Millbank

London

SW1P 3GE

Tel: 020 7901 7040

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk

 

 

........... and bringing up the rear

 

 

----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxx@scottishpower.com

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 9:52

Subject: FW: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - Ongoing CCO Complaint

 

Dear xxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your contact regarding problems you are experiencing with ScottishPower.

 

I apologise that you have had to contact us about your issue. This matter has been passed to my Director Support Team for immediate priority.

 

Rest assured we are dealing with your issue. We are busy at the moment so it may take us a little time.

 

Please do not worry - we will sort it out - we will respond to you within 7 working days.

 

Please note - If you need to respond to this email:

· please reply directly to this email address, without changing the subject line

· please do not include any other email addresses

as these actions may delay our resolution of your enquiry and response to you.

 

Regards

 

Neil Clitheroe

CEO, Scottish Power Retail & Generation

[Mike_hawk]

Have agreed the following via the EO......probably betters any possible claim for damage and by my calcs writes off the last 6 weeks supply from SP [when reconciled] and leaves me about 30 squid up.

 

Ofgem requested the case file a few days ago but beyond that I haven't a clue if it's progressing the overcharging issue.

 

One thing that did strike me was that SP declined to reduce anything [and I do mean anything] to writing, preferring to agree the remedy during telephone discussions......... make of that what you will

 

 

 

Your complaint about Scottish Power

 

Please find below a summary of the proposals agreed by you and Scottish Power, in full and final resolution of your complaint:

 

Scottish Power should:

 

• contact new supplier for final electricity reads;

• provide a final electricity bill;

• if credit balance, issue credit refund;

• if debit balance, offer a repayment plan taking into consideration your ability to pay;

• provide an apology in writing; and

• credit account with £200 as a gesture of goodwill in recognition of the shortfalls in customer service.

 

Scottish Power should provide the remedy within 28 days from the date of this letter.

 

The Ombudsman is pleased there is a satisfactory outcome to this case.

 

Yours sincerely

xxxxx xxxx Investigation Officer