Freedom pass problem with TfL

[TFL101]

Ok i am adding them back. Just was feeling very nervous after all the stress

[rambo]

No pity i'm afraid.

[Old-CodJA]

It seems that a further page of the witness statement is missing from your scans. It is clear that from the last question asked by the inspector on the page you have uploaded, there will have been more to it, but in fact I don't think posting the other page up here will make any difference to the advice or outcome in this instance.

 

Like others, I may personally have some sympathy for the plight of anyone who has serious health issues affecting their daily lives, but none of what you have told us makes any difference to the legal requirement for you to comply with the laws in force in this country. You were caught using a Freedom Pass issued for the sole use of another person and paid for by public money with strict restrictions on its' use.

 

You have admitted that you repeatedly used a Freedom Pass that you knew you were not entitled to use and each time you did so it was for the express purpose of avoiding payment of the correct fare due

 

You have admitted that you did this in the full knowledge that it was wrong, but you offer only that in your opinion, the fares are too expensive.

 

When others have attempted to explain to you why TfL will almost certainly prosecute you successfully, your responses seem to suggest that you are unwilling to accept anyone's opinion other than your own and you continue to introduce irrelevant factors in respect of the actual allegation that you face. This will not help your defence one bit.

 

Continuing to tell everyone what you think TfL and others should do will not alter the fact that you have acted illegally and have broken the law in wilfully attempting to avoid paying your fares.

 

The starting point is that when these type of offences are detected, TfL or a rail company are entitled to prosecute by issuing a Summons for the alleged offender to answer to a Magistrates Court for their actions.

 

In some circumstances the company MAY consider representation by or on behalf of the offender and MAY consider allowing an out of Court settlement. There is no obligation on them to do so.

 

I am sorry to have to say that anyone who persists in 'lecturing' the company about irrelevant issues will normally be seen to be offering no defence, but attempting to put up a smoke screen of excuses with the intention of continuing to avoid the liability.

 

It seems from the Summons that you have been very fortunate, TfL appear to be pursuing only the one charge whereas if you admitted 24 offences when questioned, as you suggest earlier in this thread, they could be asking for these to be taken into account and seeking recovery of those fares too.

 

From what you have told us, I can see no reason why TfL should not prosecute this matter, nor can I see any reason why it should not be successful.

 

I strongly advise you not to attempt to excuse your actions before the Magistrates in the way that you have done here, but to seek qualified legal representation at Court.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Old-CodJA

[TFL101]

First of all i'd like to thank you that you hav written such a long comment just try to help and explain me about your opinion

 

I have a few things to do now.

 

 

Firstly going to speak to them in their office very soon.

 

 

If i can't be succesful then will talk to my lawyer to fill the forms with me as she said

and she going to write a letter for me to read at the court.

 

 

Because my english is not that strong to express my self.

I will ask them to have an out of court settlement at their office and at court i dont know if that will work but she said that happen a few times ...

 

Third thing

 

 

this issue damaged my phycogoly and thinkin about to be returned to my own country

 

 

My family will force me get married with someone plus if they will find out about my sexual orientation my life will be in danger

as well also going back will destroy my relationship.

 

 

Thats way i am now going to go to my gp and ask him to refer me to hospital for seeing a psychologist.

 

 

I will explain everything and will give the inspector's name to be written on my hospital report due to his lies.

 

Also i can't still understand using some ones oyster card is a criminal issue which is not in my country !

You pay the fine and that finishes there . That also caused me to use it...

 

By the way i want to ask every one that if they download any movie or mp3 song which is illegal ??

I am sure they didin't or this is not the same thing (their excuses)

 

And also yesterday i used an expired voucher in mc donalds to buy a fill-o fish . I hope mc donald's won't sue me

[Old-CodJA]

I have a few things to do now. Firstly going to speak to them in their office very soon.

 

I am afraid that if you turn up at the TfL prosecutors office without having first being given a confirmed appointment, they will be very unlikely to admit you.

 

 

If i can't be succesful then will talk to my lawyer to fill the forms with me as she said and she going to write a letter for me to read at the court. Because my english is not that strong to express my self.

 

That is the best suggestion that you have made so far

 

 

I will ask them to have an out of court settlement at their office and at court i dont know if that will work but she said that happen a few times ..

 

I think we have all previously explained that TfL do not have to agree to settle this out of Court and may not do so whether you seek assistance of a lawyer or not, but letting a lawyer deal with this is your best option.

 

 

Third thing this issue damaged my phycogoly and thinkin about to be returned to my own country My family will force me get married with someone plus if they will find out about my sexual orientation my life will be in danger as well also going back will destroy my relationship. Thats way i am now going to go to my gp and ask him to refer me to hospital for seeing a psychologist.

 

In my experience, TfL will not be swayed by what might be considered to be 'emotional blackmail'. I am sure that we all have sympathy in some way for those less fortunate than ourselves, but you have already explained that you had rationalised this offence and your motivation for using the Freedom Pass was to avoid paying your fare.

 

 

 

I will explain everything and will give the inspector's name to be written on my hospital report due to his lies.

 

You might make an allegation, but in my opinion there is no chance that this individual will be named on any medical files.

 

 

 

Also i can't still understand using some ones oyster card is a criminal issue which is not in my country ! You pay the fine and that finishes there .

 

Unfortunately you still seem to be ignoring the fact that you were travelling in this country and are subject to the rules in force in this country.

 

 

 

By the way i want to ask every one that if they download any movie or mp3 song which is illegal ?? I am sure they didin't or this is not the same thing (their excuses)

 

And also yesterday i used an expired voucher in mc donalds to buy a fill-o fish . I hope mc donald's won't sue me

 

 

I'm afraid the fact that you continue to introduce irrelevant factors, will not help your case at all.

 

I am sure that if you engage a lawyer, he or she will tell you exactly the same thing, so if you are not willing to try to understand the position, I think it is best that I don't try to offer any more suggestions that are intended to help you either.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Old-CodJA

[TFL101]

Old-CodJA really thanks you are so kind and i can see clearly your goodwill here.

 

 

But i am genuine as well.

 

 

I helped so many people in life without expecting any thing and always was careful in life and never even been to a police station in my life .

Thats way i guess i can not concede it !

And also i think comparing the rules with my country and thats way i never thought this was that much serious issue here.

 

I was geniune yes i used it 24 times in 60 days but was not using it just to enjoy london and go anywhere...

 

Plus wasnt working for 10 months and had no money. Also felt so dawn during the period to ask my partner for some money.

 

I didn't know that i need to have an appointment to go there(TFL office) so going to call them asap for a meeting. I hope they can give me a chance to pay all the fee ...

 

Only God is impeccable...

That should not be a "must go to court"

they should try to understand also my sitiutation !

 

 

I am a foreigner and don't know everything it takes a lot time to understand all the system..

 

 

I am here for 1 year only

[TFL101]

By the way my friend its not an emotional blackmail its a true of the life !

 

i can't sleep since that happen always was worrying me at the end got the letter by court now more stress!

i know was my fault but didint know it works like this. Also my future is in danger that is worrying me as well

[BazzaS]

Old-CodJA really thanks you are so kind and i can see clearly your goodwill here. But i am genuine as well. I helped so many people in life without expecting any thing and always was careful in life and never even been to a police station in my life . Thats way i guess i can not concede it ! And also i think comparing the rules with my country and thats way i never thought this was that much serious issue here.

 

I was geniune yes i used it 24 times in 60 days but was not using it just to enjoy london and go anywhere...

 

Plus wasnt working for 10 months and had no money. Also felt so dawn during the period to ask my partner for some money.

 

I didn't know that i need to have an appointment to go there(TFL office) so going to call them asap for a meeting. I hope they can give me a chance to pay all the fee ...

 

Only God is impeccable... That should not be a "must go to court" they should try to understand also my sitiutation ! I am a foreigner and don't know everything it takes a lot time to understand all the system.. I am here for 1 year only

 

If you visit the prosecutions office without agreeing it with them in advance, expect to be refused entry.

 

You still seem to have the expectation that they shouldn't be prosecuting you.

TfL make no secret of the fact they almost always prosecute freedom pass abuse. Not accepting that this is morally and legally appropriate really does you no favours.

 

I told you (yesterday evening) not to just turn up at the prosecutions office. Why are you ignoring relevant advice?

OCJ had to re-state about NOT 'just turning up'.

 

I am afraid that if you turn up at the TfL prosecutors office without having first being given a confirmed appointment, they will be very unlikely to admit you.

.

.

.

.

I'm afraid the fact that you continue to introduce irrelevant factors, will not help your case at all.

 

I am sure that if you engage a lawyer, he or she will tell you exactly the same thing, so if you are not willing to try to understand the position, I think it is best that I don't try to offer any more suggestions that are intended to help you either.

 

If you keep ignoring good advice, and expecting TfL, the courts, and the Home Office to react as you wish, or as they might in a different country, I predict:

a) more people will give up on trying to offer advice

b) you can only make a bad situation worse.

[TFL101]

No the thing i couldnt understand yesterday that was your meaning

You know you said in advance. İ was just trying to understand what does it mean. Thats way. Otherways i didint ignore your advice. Thanks for all

 

Just trying to understand each comments but not so easy for me to understand everything :/

İ think tomorrow i should let my partner to read all the comments

[BazzaS]

No the thing i couldnt understand yesterday that was your meaning

You know you said in advance. İ was just trying to understand what does it mean. Thats way. Otherways i didint ignore your advice. Thanks for all

 

Just trying to understand each comments but not so easy for me to understand everything :/

İ think tomorrow i should let my partner to read all the comments

 

That one piece of advice is not the only one that you have been ignoring, though.

 

You SHOULD let your partner read the comments - hopefully you'll then take the advice on board and also get formal legal advice.

[TFL101]

Hi ALL

He just read the comments here on the 2nd page .

 

And said they were very patient with you.

But i know this is also about my skill of expressing my self in english

Also what i did i called the presicution office to speak to some one.

A lady answered me and i gave her my ref. number.

She said i should send a letter to presuciton office about the issue and say that i am going to pay all the costs and fine etc.

i said sure i am going to pay all and explained her about my situation.

She said to me to send all the proofs of my visa and etc. and said mention all the details what i told her.

Thanks for the good advice and

i still don't know if that will work but i pray for it and it will never happen again.

 

Want only a chance only one !

Edited November 22, 2013 by TFL101

[Conniff]

The difference between a telephone call and here is the person on the other end of the phone is more likely to say what you want to hear whereas on these forums there is no need to take that line.

 

 

Old Codja really is an expert in this subject and though there might be other words to express it, you are making an attempt at emotional blackmail and have been told that will not work, but good luck to you.

[TFL101]

It's not an emotional blackmail as you think ... I think you guys can't understand the situation !!!

I took the advice which was given me here to call TFL prosecution office... And the next step sending the letter with the proofs of my visa and etc...

So if it will work or not we don't know yet and we will see...

 

Please Stop spreading negative energy which Just damaging my psychology more and more !

Edited November 23, 2013 by TFL101

[citizenB]

Although we have been given no good reason why. .I have removed the documents as requested.

 

Please be aware, whilst we have removed the document from our web site - it could still be available on search engines such as google or firefox, etc.. we have no control over their archives.

Edited November 23, 2013 by citizenB

[Conniff]

 

Please Stop spreading negative energy which Just damaging my psychology more and more !

 

I didn't mean to be negative, I really wish you luck. I think it's over the top of TFL to take this action for a first offence, in fact, I think it stinks.

 

Good Luck

[BazzaS]

It's not an emotional blackmail as you think ... I think you guys can't understand the situation !!!

I took the advice which was given me here to call TFL prosecution office... And the next step sending the letter with the proofs of my visa and etc...

So if it will work or not we don't know yet and we will see...

 

Please Stop spreading negative energy which Just damaging my psychology more and more !

 

I think we understand all too well.

You don't seem to understand the points we have made.

 

If you are saying "I should be let off with paying an administrative penalty because:

a) That's what they do in my country,

b) A criminal record would affect your personal circumstances badly"

Then

1) what would you call that other than "emotional blackmail"

2) why should you be allowed to be treated differently to people who don 't face those pressures?

The risk of having a criminal record is MEANT to be a deterrent. Seeing "don't give him a criminal record as it'll affect him badly" negates the "risk's" effect as that deterrent.

 

If you are claiming that the UK should treat your criminal offence more as it is treated in your own country ; do you want your sexuality treated more like your home country too?

Of course not! You can't pick and choose which parts of UK law are applied to you.

 

"Please Stop spreading negative energy which Just damaging my psychology more and more !" .....

Do you mean "please only reply if you are only going to say only what I want to hear!"?

 

You still don't seem to want to accept it was your choice to break the law, and once caught TfL have every right to prosecute you.

 

You want to blame others for "damaging your psychology" even when they are agreeing with you?, while still not accepting responsibly for your actions. You seem very keen to blame others for the effects of your own actions.

Edited November 23, 2013 by BazzaS

[MaximusMeridius]

I have never commented on other peoples posts, but something you said needs to be commented on:-

 

"My family will force me get married with someone plus if they will find out about my sexual orientation my life will be in danger

as well also going back will destroy my relationship."

 

You my friend had and has more reason then most to lead a squeaky clean exsistence in this country!!!

[ims21]

TFL101

 

As this thread appears to have run its course I am closing it now.

 

Thanks to all of those members who have tried to get the points across but some things seem to have fallen on deaf ears.

 

Thread closed