52jm..Charged 4 times in a Week to pay the Penalty of £520, Ealing Council

[sallu_999]

Hi there, (Contravention 52JM Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle)

 

I have have fallen a victim of this incident 4times in a single week and they sent me 4 penalties. Is there a way out of this?

Suddenly £520 or say even in discounted price £260 is a huge blow.

 

And they are doing this to perhaps tens of vehicles just in that one hour restriction. (8-9am)

 

What I notice in these videos is, the video is taken from the other side of the signs where signs are not visible in videos at all. Only the Cars turning into that road can be seen.

The reason is, there is no enough room at that T-Junction for a mobile camera to wait and capture videos with signs displaying.

 

The positions at which they had placed the sign is not visible to drivers on the road from which they approach this turn. But its only visible when you are right in front of these signs at this turning.

Would this make a point??

 

Also that, the sign is not in a position where a driver can see well before to make himself aware that he is crossing the restrictions.

 

Please Help!!

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[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'm going to move your thread to the motoring offences forum, where I think the guys will be able to help you. I'll leave a short term redirect from here.

 

My best, HB

[citizenkain]

well,it seems to be a one way street with no entry signs and youve went down and turned into it,you must have seen from that road makeup and the signs this was a no entry,you should have carried along the road instead of turning right where the sign says,no entry?

[sailor sam]

Having looked on street view, I don't understand why there is a 'all motor vehicles prohibited' restriction there anyway as clearly there needs to be access to residential properties in the road. Also, there dosn't appear to be a restriction coming from the other direction.

 

Personally I would suggest that in the absence of an 'except for access' plate, the signs are non-compliant. All you need to say is that you are visiting a sick relative in the street or something. As it stands, even any residents in the street would also be in contravention of the signs so I wonder how they are dealing with that?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[citizenkain]

its obviously controlled so that the traffic comes in one end and out that exit,if the op had driven straight ahead rather than turn right where he shouldnt have Im quite sure there is a right turn further down that you are supposed to enter the road that way,theres loads of roads like that in london,its probably an unadopted road,theres bound to be a reason somewhere why they would not want vehicles coming in that way,maybe its tight to get out the other end or something?

[Raykay]

The restriction would be to stop traffic 'cutting the corner' during the time it is in force and make them go to the roundabout and turn left.

It prohibits all traffic, if it did not apply to residents or visitors it would have an 'Except for Access' plate underneath.

[sallu_999]

They are actually trying to control the traffic that is bypassing main road traffic during rush hours. So is y they have stated from 8-9am. As you said, donno how are they dealing with the residents at these hours.

But as I stated that they have taken video and pictures from the other side of the sign and the sign itself is not available in the picture and video, and they did this as there is obviously no enough room for them to stand infront of the sign as its a T-Junction. So would I be able to raise this point in an informal or formal appeal ??..

Please advise.

Thanks.

[sallu_999]

Aslo please if someone can advise, what is the legal measurement from a sign for the viewer from in front from where it should be visible ? There must be a range of this distance that maximum it should be seen from this distance and minimum it should be available to be viewed from this distance?? And also the angle at which it should be available from ??

 

Please help.

Thanks.

[sallu_999]

Hope have got this post in the right section? somebody please help.

Thanks in advance!

[citizenkain]

if they put a big sign up,as in your picture that means no motor vehicles,thats what it means...,you should not have turned right down that road with the big sign that means "NO MOTOR VEHICLES":-(

[sallu_999]

how big is not an issue, how they have placed is an issue, like the DfT's site says, on a 20mile speed road, the sign should be atleast 45meters clarity distance, which does not apply here at all, as this is on a side road and not on the road where it should atleast have a warning.

[sallu_999]

Waiting for your views please??

[sailor sam]

I can only repeat my opinions in post #4. In the absence of an 'Except For Access' plate, i'm not sure how they can differentiate between a resident and a non-resident. Also, I cannot see the restriction repeated from any other direction so is it possible that the signs are redundant? Have you asked the LA to see the traffic order?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Raykay]

I can only repeat my opinions in post #4. In the absence of an 'Except For Access' plate, i'm not sure how they can differentiate between a resident and a non-resident. .

 

As it doesn't have an 'Except for Access' plate, the restriction applies to everyone, including residents - for that hour, they have to enter the road from the other end.

[sallu_999]

I dont think the signs are redundant, as they are still penalizing drivers. I asked them in the appeal for the Traffic order.

Thanks for your reply

[sallu_999]

They have finally refused all my appeals.

They have sent the answers to a few points but have not answered all of them. I am in need of help again. Please advise.

[sallu_999]

:!:

[cyberhead]

u have turned into a restricted road if its between the times stated ur done ,how can u not see the sign ,i dont understand

[cyberhead]

the sign is visable cant see what you are trying say tbh

[MarknRuth]

I suggest you pay the fines

 

You state you have had 4 incidents of this, didn't you see the sign the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th time ? If not i suggest you take more notice of road signage in future

 

They have finally refused all my appeals.

They have sent the answers to a few points but have not answered all of them. I am in need of help again. Please advise.

[green_and_mean]

The signs should be sited at the junction to be clearly visible from the main road they are in fact a good distance down the road. You are already at the full amount the penalty will not go up you may as well go to PATAS as you have nothing to lose everything to gain.

[green_and_mean]

case Reference:2130110351

Appellant:Mrs Z

Authority:Ealing

VRM:XXXXX

PCN:YYYYY

Contravention Date:18 Jan 2013

Contravention Time:08:36

Contravention Location:Old Ruislip Road/ Hawtrey Avenue, Northolt

Penalty Amount:£130.00

Contravention:Failing to comply with a sign indicating a prohibition on certain types of vehicle

Decision Date:11 Apr 2013

Adjudicator:Anthony Chan

Appeal Decision:Allowed

Direction:cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

Reasons:The Appellant said that she was unaware of the sign. She suggested that it was too high.

 

There was in fact a pair of the signs. They were higher than normal but it is not in itself a problem. The CCTV recording indicated that the sign on the left (as one enters the road) was among the branches of a tree. The library photographs were of poor quality and the sign could not be seen in the photograph at all.

 

I am not satisfied that the signage was accurate. I am allowing the appeal.

Edited July 26, 2013 by ploddertom
Removal of names & other details

[sallu_999]

Thanks for your kind advise. For you kind information, I have won the appeal with the adjudicator and damn it, I dont have to pay those bloody authorities. The Way I prepared and went through many rules stated by the DfT etc.. and proved my point was satisfactory to convince the adjudicator. I am sure there is a flaw in the signage and people are being fooled by Ealing authority.

[sallu_999]

All those who have been a victim of 52jm in hawtery Avenue through old Ruislip Road are welcome to post on this thread if you want to fight back and win this appeal. Dont pay and I will let you know the flaws in those sings.

Edited September 20, 2013 by honeybee13
Asking for contact

[sarah_22]

All those who have been a victim of 52jm in hawtery Avenue through old Ruislip Road are welcome to post on this thread if you want to fight back and win this appeal. Dont pay and I will let you know the flaws in those sings.

 

Congratulations on your win! I've also being issues with this penalty charge and plan to appeal. Could you please let me know how you did it? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks