Allegedly caught speeding - 38MPH in a 30MPH zone - gun not calibrated for rear detection?

[Tommo1984]

Allegedly caught speeding. 38MPH in a 30MPH zone. by a radar gun I dispute this.

the “evidence” suggests that “Manual: rear plate”

am I right in thinking that the gun is set up for rear number plates, meaning it’s set up for vehicles moving away from the gun rather than towards it? … (I was oncoming traffic)
 

wont let me upload a photo. But this is this statement (I’ve removed sensitive info):

Time: 11:36:17 Manual: Rear Plate

Speed Limit: 30 MPH Speed: 38 MPH (APP)

Distance: 79.0 m

 

[dx100uk]

read upload - PDF only

but you are wrong...works front and back .

id get it sorted.

what date was the NIP?

dx

 

[Tommo1984]

Thanks for the reply.

date: 03/06

Yeah, I’m aware they work both front and back.. but on the actual photo evidence I’m clearly driving towards the camera… and the info above states time, date, speed etc. and clearly states “Manual: rear plate”.. this doesn’t collate with the photographic evidence. And the fact that it states “manual: rear plate” implies there are different settings for “manual: front plate” therefore corrupting the “evidence” 

no?

[dx100uk]

or could simple be a clerical error.

doesnt mean its not valid.

[Manxman in exile]

5 hours ago, Tommo1984 said:

Allegedly caught speeding. 38MPH in a 30MPH zone. by a radar gun I dispute this...

 

What are you disputing?

If you've recieved a NIP and a s172 request to identify the driver then you have to respond - otherwise you are probably committing a more serious offence than the alleged speeding...

Unless you have already been charged with the offence of speeding (your opening post is missing all relevant detail) you aren't entitled to see any evidence yet, and any photos the police may have supplied so far may only be there to help you identify the driver.  (Hence why they may have supplied images from the front of the car.)  If you haven't yet been charged you might find that they rely on other images to prosecute you.

Unless you are 100% confident that you are not guilty of the alleged speeding, it's probably best not to play silly buggers about whether the images are from in front or from behind...

[Tommo1984]

Thanks Dx

its automated. So can’t be clerical.…. So would be setup error by the civilian/officer operating the radar

 

thanks Manxman

I thought I’d explained what I was disputing

It’s not “silly buggers” … it’s ensuring that they adhere to their own guidelines when issuing an NIP. 

I have the right to question ALL evidence against me. “Equity at Arms”
They also need to carry out a dynamic risk assessment, which can be challenged (reasons I don’t need to go into).

I appreciate the replies,

Guys.. I’m not looking for advice on how to handle the NIP. 
Im looking for someone that knows how these radar guns work, maybe even has had experience with them… knows whether there’s a difference between front/rear calibration? 
cheers

[dx100uk]

ah Freeman of the land Twaddle...no wonder..

i'd drop all that else you'll get burned.

dx

 

[aaa577aaa]

Do you have the model of the speed gun?Not sure how in uk works, but here in the report it is reported the model of the speed radar, its approval and when it was last calibrated; if you have the model name I'm quite sure you can check in internet how it works.

I think you were caught in front, the photo of the rear plate is only a method to identify you.

Just pay the fine

Edited June 9, 2023 by aaa577aaa

[Man in the middle]

The position you are in at the moment is what you need to concentrate on.

You need to respond to the "Request for Driver's details" within the time allowed (28 days). If you fail to do that you will be charged with that offence and a conviction carries six points, a hefty fine and an endorsement code (MS90) which will see your insurance premiums rocket.

Once you've done that you will almost certainly be offered a course for that speed, provided you have not done one for an offence that occurred within three years of this one. If you are not eligible or don't fancy that, a fixed penalty of £100 and 3 points is the alternative. If you decline or ignore that you will be prosecuted in court. Before you enter a plea you will not be served with all the evidence the police have, but only that which they intend to rely on to convict you. It is at that point that you can begin your challenges. 

The "Equity at Arms" (or perhaps "Equality of Arms") which you mention is provided by the Criminal Procedure Rules and the Rules of Evidence to which your trial (should you plead Not Guilty) will be subject. I'm really not sure what "dynamic risk assessment" you suggest should be undertaken, or by whom (or why).

In general, an approved mechanical device is assumed to be working correctly unless the contrary can be proved. If you take your case to trial, the police will probably show that your speed was detected by an approved device operated correctly. The burden then shifts to you to show that it cannot be relied upon. The cost of failure is high - you will pay a fine of half a week's net income and a surcharge of 40% of that fine. You will also pay prosecution costs. These will begin at £620 and may go considerably higher than that if the prosecution has to enlist the help of an expert to counter your challenge.

Best of luck.

[Manxman in exile]

6 hours ago, Tommo1984 said:

 

I thought I’d explained what I was disputing

It’s not “silly buggers” … it’s ensuring that they adhere to their own guidelines when issuing an NIP. 

I have the right to question ALL evidence against me. “Equity at Arms”
They also need to carry out a dynamic risk assessment, which can be challenged (reasons I don’t need to go into)...

OK.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you actually mean equality of arms and that you aren't somebody whose been misled by FMOTL nonsense.

Equality of arms (an ECHR concept) basically refers to the conduct of a trial.  If you have so far only received a NIP/s172 request then you are nowhere near a trial yet.  

If you haven't reached the SJPN (or similar) stage yet then you don't really know what evidence the police have against you.  All you probabably have is a photo (taken from the front) to assist you in identifying the driver.  If you were actually caught speeding when travelling away from the detection device, I'm sure they'll have evidence which shows that and which they can produce in court.  But until you are actually charged with an offence, you aren't entitled to see the evidence against you, so you don't actually know yet what they have.

Have you received a SJPN yet or are you still at the NIP/s172 stage?

Unless you are confident that you could prove in court that the evidence against you does not show you were speeding, then I'm afraid you are in danger of playing "silly buggers" if the best straw you can clutch at is whether the evidence (which you haven't seen all of yet) shows you driving towards the device or away from it.

This man was playing silly buggers with his children's inheritance:  Man spends £30,000 fighting £100 speeding fine - BBC News

The time to dispute the evidence against you is when you know you've actually seen all the evidence that the prosecution seeks to rely on - not before.  If you aren't at the SJPN stage you don't yet know what that evidence is.