lloyds tsb

[Dorabell]

Hi andy nice to here from you:)i have read the form is what to do? my hubby has had one aswell i feel terrible has this debt is mine and not my hubbys

[Andyorch]

You may possibly be able to do something about this. If the house is in joint names, your partner has the right to tell the court all the circumstances and be given an opportunity to go to the hearing to put his points forward. For example:

• Who paid for the deposit to buy the home?
  
• Who has made the mortgage payments since?
  
• If there are children at home, ask the court to put a condition that the house cannot be sold by the creditor until the children have grown up.
  
• The co-owner will need to file and serve written evidence of their objections at least 7 days before the hearing.
  

He will need to put a case forward and maybe have documentary evidence that he paid for the deposit/paid for the mortgage etc.

If a charging order is made by the court, then it will hopefully only apply to the other hlaf's share of the property.

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

hi andy thanks for your reply:) does it apply although i am paying by instalments made out by the courts i thought once i defaulted on the payments they could apply for a charging order:confused: im still learning

[Andyorch]

Absolutely Dora once the N245 is in place (and you never default) no charging order can be made,therefore you need to act now to stop the Interim CO, I will post some guidelines up for you shortly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Andyorch]

On the notice Dora there should be a section to object and a date to do this by, if you can confirm.Also as the CCJ is in your name only your OH shouldn't have received one

 

Andy

Edited December 8, 2009 by Andyorch

[Dorabell]

On the notice Dora there should be a section to object and a date to do this by, if you can confirm.Also as the CCJ is in your name only your OH shouldn't have received one

 

Andy

 

Thanks andy:)12noon the end dec yes and ccj is in my name only my OH has received the same and adressed to mr xxxxx

[Andyorch]

I would also back this up with a phone call to the Land Registry and explain how the Sol who has made the application is breaking the law,along with how your OH as not has judgment and therfore has no involvement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

I would also back this up with a phone call to the Land Registry and explain how the Sol who has made the application is breaking the law,along with how your OH as not has judgment and therfore has no involvement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi andy i have spoken to some one about the above, is words were by law they have to send out to each and every one who owns the property i mentioned that my OH has no envolvement im my ccj he kept saying thats the law your advice is always appriciated thank you

[Dorabell]

Absolutely Dora once the N245 is in place (and you never default) no charging order can be made,therefore you need to act now to stop the Interim CO, I will post some guidelines up for you shortly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Hi andy would you mind posting up those guidelines when you have minute please:)

[Andyorch]

WHAT IS A CHARGING ORDER?

 

* If a creditor has a county court judgment against you ordering you to repay a debt, they may be able to apply to the court for a charging order to enforce the judgment if you do not pay.

 

* A charging order gives the creditor security for the debt; in other words, the debt would become "secured" like a mortgage on your house, or other land.

 

* There must be a hearing in the county court before a charging order can be made and there are several arguments you can use to try to stop an order being made.

 

* This factsheet explains the court procedure in the county court and what you can do. Some creditors can apply for a charging order after taking you to the High Court.

 

WHEN CAN A CREDITOR APPLY FOR A CHARGING ORDER?

 

The creditor can apply for a charging order if they have a county court judgment against you and:

 

* You have been ordered to pay the whole debt immediately or by a certain date, (this is known as a "forthwith" judgment) and have not done so.

 

or

 

* The court has ordered you to pay the judgment by instalments and you have missed one or more payments.

 

* If you have an order to pay the debt in instalments and are not behind on the payments the court should not make a charging order.

 

HOW IS AN APPLICATION MADE?

 

The application for a charging order always has two stages:

 

STAGE ONE – THE INTERIM ORDER

The creditor makes an application for a charging order and the court will make what is called an interim charging order if it is satisfied that you own, or have a part share (an interest), in the property in question. This is NOT the final order. An interim charging order is usually made automatically without a hearing and a date for a full hearing is set. A copy of the interim order will be sent to you.

 

This should be done at least 21 days before the hearing date set by the District Judge. The hearing is for the court to decide whether or not to make the charging order permanent ('Final'). This hearing is likely to be held in the District Judge's private rooms.

 

The creditor will also register the interim charging order as a "caution" on your property with the Land Registry who should inform you of this in writing. This means you cannot sell the property before the hearing.

 

STAGE TWO – THE FINAL CHARGING ORDER

The second stage is the court hearing in front of the District Judge. At this hearing the court will decide whether to make a permanent charge on the property. This is called a finalcharging order. If you object to a charging order being made final then you should send the creditor and the court written evidence stating why you object. You should do this at least 7 days before the hearing. This could be in a form of a letter of objection outlining all the arguments you have for why the charging order should not be made. This should be sent by registered post to both the creditor and the court.

 

If you do this then your arguments should be taken into account by the District Judge at the hearing. You should still go to the hearing and if you do not send any written evidence then it is vital that you go.

 

The court can refuse to make the charging order so you must serve a notice and go to the hearing. If you cannot attend on that date, contact the court for a different hearing date to be arranged. If you do not go, the charging order is likely to be made final by the court at the request of the creditor.

 

If the hearing has been arranged in another court, ask for it to be transferred to your local court. You can apply on an application form called an N244 explaining why you can't go to the hearing, e.g. due to the distance, travel or childcare costs. There is a fee for doing this.

 

HOW CAN I STOP A CHARGING ORDER?

 

The court must consider whether it is reasonable to make a charging order. UnderThe ChargingOrders Act 1979 the court has to consider all the circumstances of the case and in particular:

 

* The personal circumstances of "the debtor"

 

* Whether any creditor would be "unduly prejudiced". This means the court has to decide if making a charging order would disadvantage other creditors.

 

The arguments you can use against the order being made will vary depending on your circumstances, whether you have any other debts, whether you have equity in your house and own your home in joint names or on your own.

 

These are some of the factors that the court may consider:

 

* Does any member of your family have a disability or serious illness?

 

* If you have a number of debts and making a charging order in favour of one creditor would give them unfair priority over other unsecured creditors. It is particularly useful if you can show you already have a payment arrangement in place with your other creditors. This would be upset by an order being made. Point out if any of the debts are larger than this debt and if any other creditors have frozen the interest.

 

* Your creditor is supposed to list all the other creditors that they are aware of in the application for an interim charging order.

 

* The court can order the interim order to be sent to the other known creditors but does not have to do this. This means that creditors who may want to object to the final charging order being made will not know about the hearing. You can raise this in your written objections and at the hearing if you think a creditor may be "unduly prejudiced" by the charging order being made.

 

* Could the creditor have given you a secured loan when you first took out the loan? If they decided to offer an unsecured loan instead, this could be particularly relevant if you have other unsecured creditors who may be disadvantaged by a charging order being made.

 

* There are other ways the court could enforce payment of the debt. You could ask the court to make an instalment order so you makemonthly payments you can afford, or an attachment ofearnings order so that the instalments would come directly from your wages. This is only useful if you are employed and your employment would not be at risk. We have a factsheet on "Attachment of Earnings in the County Court".

 

* If your debt is covered by the Consumer Credit Act you can apply for a Time Order. Ask the court to look at this application before the charging order. A Time Order can change the monthly payments and extend the length of time you pay the debt for. We have a factsheet on "Time Orders".

 

* If you owe less than £5,000 in total to all your creditors, you can argue that the debt should be included in an administration order rather than the charging order being made final. We have a factsheet on "Administration Orders".

 

* If you are likely to be made bankrupt, you can argue that a charging order would give the creditor an unfair advantage over other unsecured creditors. Phone us for advice about this .

 

* If your home is worth less than your mortgage (also known as "negative equity"), then you can argue it is not worth a charging order being made, as the creditor would not be paid off, even if they forced your home to be sold.

 

* If the debt is very small in comparison to the amount of equity in your home, argue that a charging order would be unfair.

 

* You should point out any particular hardship which your family would suffer if a charging order was to lead to the sale of the home. This is particularly important if the debt is in your name but you own your home jointly so it is not even your partner's debt .

 

If none of these arguments are successful and the court makes a final charging order, you can still ask the court not to let your house be sold as long as you pay monthly instalments. Make an offer to pay in monthly instalments at the hearing. If the court will not look at your offer at the hearing, you can still apply to pay in instalments by using an application form called N245. For details of how to apply we have a factsheet on "Reducing Payments on a County Court Judgment".

 

THE HOUSE IS IN JOINT NAMES BUT THE DEBT IS IN MY NAME

 

If the debt is in your sole name, but you own the house in joint names with someone else, they have the right to tell the court all the circumstances and why they would suffer hardship if a charging order is made. They should have been sent a copy of the interim charging order and given an opportunity to go to the hearing to put their points. For example:

 

* Who paid for the deposit to buy the home?

 

* Who has made the mortgage payments since?

 

* If there are children at home, ask the court to put a condition that the house cannot be sold by the creditor until the children have grown up.

 

* The co-owner will need to file and serve written evidence of their objections at least 7 days before the hearing.

 

If a charging order is made by the court, then it will only apply to your share of the property.

 

I ALREADY HAVE AN INSTALMENT ORDER AND AM NOT BEHIND WITH IT

 

If you have kept up with instalments on a county court judgment then the court should not make a final charging order. According to a case called Mercantile Credit Co Ltd v Ellis in 1987, a charging order should only be made if the payments on a judgment are in arrears or you were ordered to pay the judgment in one lump sum immediately (forthwith) and didn't pay. This case is very important. If you are in this situation and still have an interim charging order made, you MUST go to the hearing and take evidence that you have kept up with the instalments ordered and mention this case to the district judge.

 

 

 

 

Regrds

 

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

WHAT IS A CHARGING ORDER?

 

* If a creditor has a county court judgment against you ordering you to repay a debt, they may be able to apply to the court for a charging order to enforce the judgment if you do not pay.

 

* A charging order gives the creditor security for the debt; in other words, the debt would become "secured" like a mortgage on your house, or other land.

 

* There must be a hearing in the county court before a charging order can be made and there are several arguments you can use to try to stop an order being made.

 

* This factsheet explains the court procedure in the county court and what you can do. Some creditors can apply for a charging order after taking you to the High Court.

 

WHEN CAN A CREDITOR APPLY FOR A CHARGING ORDER?

 

The creditor can apply for a charging order if they have a county court judgment against you and:

 

* You have been ordered to pay the whole debt immediately or by a certain date, (this is known as a "forthwith" judgment) and have not done so.

 

or

 

* The court has ordered you to pay the judgment by instalments and you have missed one or more payments.

 

* If you have an order to pay the debt in instalments and are not behind on the payments the court should not make a charging order.

 

HOW IS AN APPLICATION MADE?

 

The application for a charging order always has two stages:

 

STAGE ONE – THE INTERIM ORDER

The creditor makes an application for a charging order and the court will make what is called an interim charging order if it is satisfied that you own, or have a part share (an interest), in the property in question. This is NOT the final order. An interim charging order is usually made automatically without a hearing and a date for a full hearing is set. A copy of the interim order will be sent to you.

 

This should be done at least 21 days before the hearing date set by the District Judge. The hearing is for the court to decide whether or not to make the charging order permanent ('Final'). This hearing is likely to be held in the District Judge's private rooms.

 

The creditor will also register the interim charging order as a "caution" on your property with the Land Registry who should inform you of this in writing. This means you cannot sell the property before the hearing.

 

STAGE TWO – THE FINAL CHARGING ORDER

The second stage is the court hearing in front of the District Judge. At this hearing the court will decide whether to make a permanent charge on the property. This is called a finalcharging order. If you object to a charging order being made final then you should send the creditor and the court written evidence stating why you object. You should do this at least 7 days before the hearing. This could be in a form of a letter of objection outlining all the arguments you have for why the charging order should not be made. This should be sent by registered post to both the creditor and the court.

 

If you do this then your arguments should be taken into account by the District Judge at the hearing. You should still go to the hearing and if you do not send any written evidence then it is vital that you go.

 

The court can refuse to make the charging order so you must serve a notice and go to the hearing. If you cannot attend on that date, contact the court for a different hearing date to be arranged. If you do not go, the charging order is likely to be made final by the court at the request of the creditor.

 

If the hearing has been arranged in another court, ask for it to be transferred to your local court. You can apply on an application form called an N244 explaining why you can't go to the hearing, e.g. due to the distance, travel or childcare costs. There is a fee for doing this.

 

HOW CAN I STOP A CHARGING ORDER?

 

The court must consider whether it is reasonable to make a charging order. UnderThe ChargingOrders Act 1979 the court has to consider all the circumstances of the case and in particular:

 

* The personal circumstances of "the debtor"

 

* Whether any creditor would be "unduly prejudiced". This means the court has to decide if making a charging order would disadvantage other creditors.

 

The arguments you can use against the order being made will vary depending on your circumstances, whether you have any other debts, whether you have equity in your house and own your home in joint names or on your own.

 

These are some of the factors that the court may consider:

 

* Does any member of your family have a disability or serious illness?

 

* If you have a number of debts and making a charging order in favour of one creditor would give them unfair priority over other unsecured creditors. It is particularly useful if you can show you already have a payment arrangement in place with your other creditors. This would be upset by an order being made. Point out if any of the debts are larger than this debt and if any other creditors have frozen the interest.

 

* Your creditor is supposed to list all the other creditors that they are aware of in the application for an interim charging order.

 

* The court can order the interim order to be sent to the other known creditors but does not have to do this. This means that creditors who may want to object to the final charging order being made will not know about the hearing. You can raise this in your written objections and at the hearing if you think a creditor may be "unduly prejudiced" by the charging order being made.

 

* Could the creditor have given you a secured loan when you first took out the loan? If they decided to offer an unsecured loan instead, this could be particularly relevant if you have other unsecured creditors who may be disadvantaged by a charging order being made.

 

* There are other ways the court could enforce payment of the debt. You could ask the court to make an instalment order so you makemonthly payments you can afford, or an attachment ofearnings order so that the instalments would come directly from your wages. This is only useful if you are employed and your employment would not be at risk. We have a factsheet on "Attachment of Earnings in the County Court".

 

* If your debt is covered by the Consumer Credit Act you can apply for a Time Order. Ask the court to look at this application before the charging order. A Time Order can change the monthly payments and extend the length of time you pay the debt for. We have a factsheet on "Time Orders".

 

* If you owe less than £5,000 in total to all your creditors, you can argue that the debt should be included in an administration order rather than the charging order being made final. We have a factsheet on "Administration Orders".

 

* If you are likely to be made bankrupt, you can argue that a charging order would give the creditor an unfair advantage over other unsecured creditors. Phone us for advice about this .

 

* If your home is worth less than your mortgage (also known as "negative equity"), then you can argue it is not worth a charging order being made, as the creditor would not be paid off, even if they forced your home to be sold.

 

* If the debt is very small in comparison to the amount of equity in your home, argue that a charging order would be unfair.

 

* You should point out any particular hardship which your family would suffer if a charging order was to lead to the sale of the home. This is particularly important if the debt is in your name but you own your home jointly so it is not even your partner's debt .

 

If none of these arguments are successful and the court makes a final charging order, you can still ask the court not to let your house be sold as long as you pay monthly instalments. Make an offer to pay in monthly instalments at the hearing. If the court will not look at your offer at the hearing, you can still apply to pay in instalments by using an application form called N245. For details of how to apply we have a factsheet on "Reducing Payments on a County Court Judgment".

 

THE HOUSE IS IN JOINT NAMES BUT THE DEBT IS IN MY NAME

 

If the debt is in your sole name, but you own the house in joint names with someone else, they have the right to tell the court all the circumstances and why they would suffer hardship if a charging order is made. They should have been sent a copy of the interim charging order and given an opportunity to go to the hearing to put their points. For example:

 

* Who paid for the deposit to buy the home?

 

* Who has made the mortgage payments since?

 

* If there are children at home, ask the court to put a condition that the house cannot be sold by the creditor until the children have grown up.

 

* The co-owner will need to file and serve written evidence of their objections at least 7 days before the hearing.

 

If a charging order is made by the court, then it will only apply to your share of the property.

 

I ALREADY HAVE AN INSTALMENT ORDER AND AM NOT BEHIND WITH IT

 

If you have kept up with instalments on a county court judgment then the court should not make a final charging order. According to a case called Mercantile Credit Co Ltd v Ellis in 1987, a charging order should only be made if the payments on a judgment are in arrears or you were ordered to pay the judgment in one lump sum immediately (forthwith) and didn't pay. This case is very important. If you are in this situation and still have an interim charging order made, you MUST go to the hearing and take evidence that you have kept up with the instalments ordered and mention this case to the district judge.

 

 

 

 

Regrds

 

 

Andy

 

Thanks andy for this i have read it:) will try and put together an objection application, i thought this was finished with once i had been to court and the judge had set the instalment payments thanks for your advice:-)

[Dorabell]

Hi andy hope you are arownd i need your advice again please sorry:) i have received from scm a letter saying first they are willing to to accept partial payment in full and final settlement if i am in position to do so which i am not and they are obtaining a charging order with the application official copy of the register of title its to being heard in jan one of the questions judgement debt the judgement or order required the judgement debtor to pay xxxxx there are 2 boxes to tick

 

£ of the instalments due under the judgement or order has fallen due and remains unpaid this box is blank

 

this box is ticked the judgement or order did not provide for payments by instalments:confused: which i have the letter from the courts to say pay xx by xx which i did which i have proof aswell i have read on the back of the CO one of the qustions are why have i received this?

i have received the CO because the claimaint has told the court that you have failed to

pay the amount the jugement when it was due or pay one or more of the instalments due under the terms of the judgment:confused:

[Andyorch]

Good morning Dora And Guest

 

Back shortly

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

Hi guest come on in we wont bite:)

[Andyorch]

Ok Dora

 

The n245 is set up and you have proof from the court?

How are you making payment so/dd and to whom?

Have you got proof ie bank statements and have you checked its being collected?

Looks like a bit of kidology going on here unless **** are failing to take payment.

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

Ok Dora

 

The n245 is set up and you have proof from the court?

How are you making payment so/dd and to whom?

Have you got proof ie bank statements and have you checked its being collected?

Looks like a bit of kidology going on here unless **** are failing to take payment.

 

Andy

 

yes proof from court to pay 3rd of every month with

paying in book using tsb bank to pay in, branch collection account cdr dept brighton on the paying book

[Andyorch]

Excellent so ring **** and tell them the same and that they are wasting theirs and Courts time.Update me Dora when you unravel this nonsense.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Dorabell]

Excellent so ring **** and tell them the same and that they are wasting theirs and Courts time.Update me Dora when you unravel this nonsense.

 

Regards

 

Andy

ok andy will do thanks:) i think i will send them a nice letter aswell to back it up just in case they say i have not telephoned them:rolleyes:

[Dorabell]

Hi andy just received a letter from SCM

Edited December 30, 2009 by Dorabell

[Dorabell]

Bump:) hi andy hope you had a great day yesterday:)

[Dorabell]

Hi andy just received a letter from SCM the original judgement dated xxxxx was to pay the full balance in 21 days and no payment was received therefore were instructed to take action they have spoken to my county court today they have advised them to that the hearing date set for xxxx and still going head to obtain a charging order should i wish to defend this then i may attend the hearing and put my objections to the judge i put a copy of the n35a from the court to pay by instalments every month also a copy of the proof of payment and a letter explaining it to SCM ,they say they are still going head with the hearing

 

Hi andy are you about today:) this is the correspondence above i have had of SCM, i have also sent mine and OH objections to the land register which had to be in by today i dont now if thats going to make any diffrence now

[hammyhound]

Dora,

 

just to let you know the objections go to the court not the Land Registry. The Land Registry will have no say in the matter only the court can decide that.

 

HH

[Dorabell]

Dora,

 

just to let you know the objections go to the court not the Land Registry. The Land Registry will have no say in the matter only the court can decide that.

 

HH

 

Hi HH thanks for your reply:) i am aware of the objections i have to send to the court:) these objections was to the applications that was sent from the land register if we wanted to object which dont make and diffrent any way:shock: has we just had a reply from the land register saying we dont have grounds to object:-x so the hearing is still going ahead i have to put an objection to the court 7days before, it looks like they dont take notice any way:rolleyes:

[hammyhound]

Sorry Dora,

 

misread your post, I thought you were only sending your objections to the Land Registry.

 

The Land Registry take absolutely no notice of what you send, they will only alter the official register when it is a court order or a solicitor's letter.

 

Been there, done it, worn the t-shirt and screwed the solicitors who thought they could get away with it.

 

My apologies.

 

HH

[Dorabell]

Sorry Dora,

 

misread your post, I thought you were only sending your objections to the Land Registry.

 

The Land Registry take absolutely no notice of what you send, they will only alter the official register when it is a court order or a solicitor's letter.

 

Been there, done it, worn the t-shirt and screwed the solicitors who thought they could get away with it.

 

My apologies.

 

HH

 

Thats ok HH you will have to give me a few tips lol:)